UPDATE!! Current Dual Action Polisher Comparison - Garry Dean - Tampa, FL

[imported_RZJZA80]

I always thought the whole point of using a DA/RO was that it DID stop spinning when the edge of the pad touched something, on corners, edges, and uneven surfaces, as to prevent burning. Isn't this the whole point of using a DA/RO over a rotary? Forced rotation is always something I don't get the concept of, why not just use a rotary then? I think a DA/RO SHOULD stop stop spinning if enough pressure is placed upon it, but in real world terms, that much pressure will never be used, no it's really not applicable. I think it's more important that a polisher doesn't heat up backing plates, or otherwise just break, rather than hey it can still spin even if you stand on it. If a PC and any other DA/RO can use the exact same products and get the job done in exactly the same number of passes, then that extra power doesn't mean anything, OPM's are OPM's. Otherwise, if the PC does take longer, the power does play a larger role. I say this because so many are still using the PC and are happy with it.

 

[imported_RZJZA80]

I recently purchased the Griot and a bunch of pads. It does a terrific job of cleaning my shower and my hot tub. However, I will not use it or any other electric polisher on my car. I know everyone swears by them and in the hands of someone like Gary or other pros they do work magic. But I just bought a 2012 brand new Mercedes in Diamond White (an expensive paint option) and having never used a polisher before it scares the heck out of me. This paint will never need correction. I've seen all the videos and read all the "how to" articles and it looks like a piece of cake, however, my experience with trying the polisher on the hot tub taught me that these things are too powerful and can get out of control too easy to put on this kind of paint. I guess I'll have to continue to do my polishing and sealing by hand.

You are thinking to much into it, unless you drop it on your paint, the polisher won't damage your car, just try a light finishing polish and a polishing or finishing paint are start practicing, you'll find that it's much easier than you think.

 

[Dan]

But I just bought a 2012 brand new Mercedes in Diamond White (an expensive paint option) and having never used a polisher before it scares the heck out of me. This paint will never need correction.

You paint, even from the factory can use polishing. If the dealer touched the car, for sure. I get a kick out of people saying how great their car looks with wax x or y. Nothing beats a car finished out with something like PO85rd. If you do it right, the looks are unreal, the paint looks like its going to drip down onto the pavement.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

I always thought the whole point of using a DA/RO was that it DID stop spinning when the edge of the pad touched something, on corners, edges, and uneven surfaces, as to prevent burning. Isn't this the whole point of using a DA/RO over a rotary? Forced rotation is always something I don't get the concept of, why not just use a rotary then? I think a DA/RO SHOULD stop stop spinning if enough pressure is placed upon it, but in real world terms, that much pressure will never be used, no it's really not applicable. I think it's more important that a polisher doesn't heat up backing plates, or otherwise just break, rather than hey it can still spin even if you stand on it. If a PC and any other DA/RO can use the exact same products and get the job done in exactly the same number of passes, then that extra power doesn't mean anything, OPM's are OPM's. Otherwise, if the PC does take longer, the power does play a larger role. I say this because so many are still using the PC and are happy with it.

Not exactly, no.



The point of using a DA is that it does not instill buffer swirls like a rotary can. The safety factor of lower RPM and stalling under pressure is just a side effect. Just like a rotary, the rotation is what makes cutting/correction possible.



While the PC can be effective, the reason the extra power does matter is that the other machines can generate more of the centripetal force that spins the pad and keep the pad spinning with higher rotating masses and/or produce more rotation for faster cutting.

 

[imported_RZJZA80]

Not exactly, no.



The point of using a DA is that it does not instill buffer swirls like a rotary can. The safety factor of lower RPM and stalling under pressure is just a side effect. Just like a rotary, the rotation is what makes cutting/correction possible.



While the PC can be effective, the reason the extra power does matter is that the other machines can generate more of the centripetal force that spins the pad and keep the pad spinning with higher rotating masses and/or produce more rotation for faster cutting.

I get that, but if a PC and GG6 both spin at 6000 OPM, isn't that the main factor? It's still spinning at the same speed, so the GG6 has a more powerful motor which causes it to stop spinning with more applied pressure, but is OPM not OPM across the board? In other words, what makes the GG6's 6000 OPM's so much more "powerful" than the PC's at 6000 OPM's?

 

[Thomas Dekany]

Kevin, I have always been a big fan of using that type of a setup. I agree, the difference is big. :thumb:

I have several G100's G110's, and G110v2's in my arsenal. There is no doubt that over the years, the Meguiar's machines have a wide variance in regards to top speed. Just last night, a great customer of mine called to ask what speed I recommended for sanding with Abranet Soft. I happened to have discs, machines, and test panels right in front of me, so I asked for a couple minutes, and I'd call right back. The first G110v2 (an old but sturdy prototype unit) works perfectly at speed 2.0. Just to be certain, though, I pulled out my brand new G110v2 (just arrived from Meguiar's two days prior). That machine required speed 4.25, and I didn't necessarily need the added OPM, but that setting was required to get me ample backing plate rotation (about 1 turn per second).



Just goes to show... we're all trying to be very specific in terms of speed settings and power capability, but if every other machine varies in terms of speed & power (within a particular manufacturer's offering), it's no wonder why we're all confused as to why our machine works perfectly, yet the next guy's machine seems to be subpar.







Wow, and I thought I was really into machines... I'd have much more sinister or self-serving plans for that wish!









I didn't get the same impression using the Griot's AT ALL. But, this goes to the point I just mentioned.







Again, machine variances.







Although some guys have come around to using equal-diameter backing plates (where the backing plate is the same or very close to the same diameter as the buffing pad), most haven't had the opportunity to try this type of set-up. What becomes immediately apparent is how much "brake action" is created by the section of the pad that isn't being supported when using an undersized backing plate. It's a BIG deal, and the rotation is so much better with the full diameter plate, that you can actually drop the speed of the machine, and get the same rotation. It also will not bog as rapidly. I sell a few types, and need to add a couple more to the site. Xact-Fit Backing Plates



If you don't want to spend the dough to buy a plate, or you'd rather not cut a larger plate to size... simply cut down a microfiber disc or foam pad to the same size as the plate you've got on hand. Keep in mind that you'll be using a lot of surface area (so the pad will load with paint residue more rapidly, and you'll automatically see more rotation because the pad is smaller in diameter).

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

I get that, but if a PC and GG6 both spin at 6000 OPM, isn't that the main factor? It's still spinning at the same speed, so the GG6 has a more powerful motor which causes it to stop spinning with more applied pressure, but is OPM not OPM across the board? In other words, what makes the GG6's 6000 OPM's so much more "powerful" than the PC's at 6000 OPM's?

The difference is that one of the elements of proper technique does involve a degree of pressure, and a more powerful machine can maintain its speed under pressure better than a weaker unit.

 

[imported_RZJZA80]

The difference is that one of the elements of proper technique does involve a degree of pressure, and a more powerful machine can maintain its speed under pressure better than a weaker unit.

OK, I agree with that aspect about the pressure. If no pressure was applied, I think it's a moot point which polisher has the more powerful motor, all things being equal otherwise. WIth that being said, I still like my GG6 better than my PC, if for no other reason in that it just makes me feel better using it lol.

 

[Kevin Brown]

It's not just the amount of "power" a motor provides, either. There's other aspects to consider; maximum RPM (claimed RPM is not always accurate... I've verified as much as a 20% variance); gear ratio (where the motor shaft transitions to the counterbalance/spindle assembly); "tightness" of the bearings used to support the assembly; overall moving mass (low mass gets to speed more rapidly, but can slow more readily under load); quality of the balancing mechanism (if the machine is teeter-tottering, the motion could scrub rotation ore readily); stroke diameter (all other things being equal, large stroke machines create more centripetal force).



There's probably some other things I haven't thought of while writing this.



As an example of "big power" isn't the only thing to consider... my 3/16" stroke Mirka CEROS machine (schematic here) creates an incredible amount of rotation. It's got a diminutive motor (although it is a very efficient brushless design). Pretty sure its got a gearing box, too, but I haven't busted the machine open to verify this). The machine tops out at 10,000 RPM, which is ridiculously high for polishing purposes.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

stroke diameter (all other things being equal, large stroke machines create more centripetal force).



There's probably some other things I haven't thought of while writing this.

One of the many reasons the Dynabrade mounted on my DWP849X is such a monster. :buffing:

As an example of "big power" isn't the only thing to consider... my 3/16" stroke Mirka CEROS machine (schematic here) creates an incredible amount of rotation. It's got a diminutive motor (although it is a very efficient brushless design). Pretty sure its got a gearing box, too, but I haven't busted the machine open to verify this). The machine tops out at 10,000 RPM, which is ridiculously high for polishing purposes.

I assume that's no-load RPM, correct?

 

[Kevin Brown]

I assume that's no-load RPM, correct?

I think so...just like the rest of the machines. Otherwise, they'd have to go through a battery of testing parameters, stating the diameter & type of pad or disc, the pressure, which material it was tested on, wet or dry, which compound or polish, etc.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

I think so...just like the rest of the machines. Otherwise, they'd have to go through a battery of testing parameters, stating the diameter & type of pad or disc, the pressure, which material it was tested on, wet or dry, which compound or polish, etc.

Right, gotcha.









Well, I just broke down and ordered an HD Polisher; I'll be very interested to see how it compares to my Meguiars DAs.

 

[SSizzlin']

Right, gotcha.









Well, I just broke down and ordered an HD Polisher; I'll be very interested to see how it compares to my Meguiars DAs.

If you get one that spins, it's a beast!

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

If you get one that spins, it's a beast!

Trust me, if it doesn't spin, it's getting returned/exchanged

 

[fabz]

It would be interesting to watch a video review of the results these polishers can get.



Divide a heavily swirled/water marked black bonnet in 4 and use the same cutting pads and compound to see which one cuts better, then step 2 - polishing, same polishing pads and polish, then step 3, finishing, same all... which one finished better?



The fact that it has that much more torque doesn't exactly guarantee the best results. I have used a Flex 3401 for about 2.5 years and have never been that impressed with it's cutting ability (maybe my cutting ability?) and it has forced rotation. Had to grab a rotary several times for real scratch removal.



Also a side by side comparison with this new 3d polisher and the Flex for cutting would be quite interesting.



Good effort anyway for doing the video.

 

[Garry Dean]

It would be interesting to watch a video review of the results these polishers can get.



Divide a heavily swirled/water marked black bonnet in 4 and use the same cutting pads and compound to see which one cuts better, then step 2 - polishing, same polishing pads and polish, then step 3, finishing, same all... which one finished better?



The fact that it has that much more torque doesn't exactly guarantee the best results. I have used a Flex 3401 for about 2.5 years and have never been that impressed with it's cutting ability (maybe my cutting ability?) and it has forced rotation. Had to grab a rotary several times for real scratch removal.



Also a side by side comparison with this new 3d polisher and the Flex for cutting would be quite interesting.



Good effort anyway for doing the video.

What speed would you like to see the comparison vs the flex?



Also, would you prefer 6.5" pads on the flex vs 5.5 on the HD polisher?

 

[Accumulator]

I have used a Flex 3401 for about 2.5 years and have never been that impressed with it's cutting ability (maybe my cutting ability?) and it has forced rotation. Had to grab a rotary several times for real scratch removal..

IME the Flex 3401's aggressiveness is highly pad/product dependent, and not always in the way one might expect. I haven't touched either of my rotaries since I got my Flex approach dialed in (for the paints I work on). It seems to do *really* well with the burgundy foam Meguiar's cutting pads (both the older 7006 and the newer version) for some reason; other pads that "oughta work at least as well" simply don't, at least for me.

 

[fabz]

What speed would you like to see the comparison vs the flex?



Also, would you prefer 6.5" pads on the flex vs 5.5 on the HD polisher?

You're right Garry, there are too many variables when doing a comparison test and it would require an extensive experience with both polishers to basically bring out the best of each machine and see which one wins = more defect removal in a X number of passes.



BTW great idea that little cord clip, do you remove it from the collar every time you put the polisher down?

 

[Garry Dean]

You're right Garry, there are too many variables when doing a comparison test and it would require an extensive experience with both polishers to basically bring out the best of each machine and see which one wins = more defect removal in a X number of passes.



BTW great idea that little cord clip, do you remove it from the collar every time you put the polisher down?

Thanks! I love it, but I guess you can tell. No, there is no need to remove the clip as the cord clips in and out effortlessly. You should order one from 3D.



3D Car Care; Car Wash, Car Wax, Auto Detailing supplies, Car Polishers, Car Buffers & accessories store

 

[fabz]

IME the Flex 3401's aggressiveness is highly pad/product dependent, and not always in the way one might expect. I haven't touched either of my rotaries since I got my Flex approach dialed in (for the paints I work on). It seems to do *really* well with the burgundy foam Meguiar's cutting pads (both the older 7006 and the newer version) for some reason; other pads that "oughta work at least as well" simply don't, at least for me.

I imagine soft paint?