Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...

[rlmccarty2000]

Thanks Chris your general location really helps when giving advice. My weather here in S. GA has been almost perfect this week. Low 70’s and mid 40 percent humidity. I could easily coat a vehicle outdoors in this type of weather if I had to.


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[BudgetPlan1]

Finally some rain today:

CSL + EXOV4 - First rain since application:

Kamikaze at 37K miles:

CQuartz UK 3.0 x 2, Gliss V3 x 1:

Granted, the red vehicles are just initial thoughts based upon sitting out in rain but have to say I`m a little underwhelmed by the movement of beads on the EXOV4 topped vehicle. Totally unscientific but hitting with a shot of air, Kamikaze and CQ UK cleared a spot best and EXOV4 offered the most resistance as far as beads moving around the surface. Have heard how crazy the EXOV4 water behavior is and maybe vehicle characteristics will change when moving but I was expecting something like fresh application of Gyeon Syncro like performance from EXO given it`s reputation.

Time will tell...

 

[DetailZeus]

[...] Granted, the red vehicles are just initial thoughts based upon sitting out in rain but have to say I`m a little underwhelmed by the movement of beads on the EXOV4 topped vehicle. Totally unscientific but hitting with a shot of air, Kamikaze and CQ UK cleared a spot best and EXOV4 offered the most resistance as far as beads moving around the surface. Have heard how crazy the EXOV4 water behavior is and maybe vehicle characteristics will change when moving but I was expecting something like fresh application of Gyeon Syncro like performance from EXO given it`s reputation. [...]

If I`m remembering correctly sliding angle isn`t exactly correlated with contact angle. Meaning you can have a bead that sits very tall but doesn`t roll off as easily when you tilt the surface (or blast it with air).

 

[PearTree]

Regarding sliding angle vs contact angle dr Beasley’s has released a series of blog posts on this topic. It has very interesting information and they state sliding angle is the most important factor of a coating for self cleaning and reduction of water spots. I wish every coating would have the contact and sliding angle listed, I believe dr Beasley’s is the only one who lists both. Not posting links to the articles but they are easily searchable on their website. I would like to hear discussions on people’s thoughts on this subject.

 

[BudgetPlan1]

If I`m remembering correctly sliding angle isn`t exactly correlated with contact angle. Meaning you can have a bead that sits very tall but doesn`t roll off as easily when you tilt the surface (or blast it with air).

Nice water contact angles are fun to look at but primarily interested in how the beads slide off...thought theyd be sliding off a bit better with EXOV4.

As for beads, today`s rain provided some entertainment regardless:

CQ UK 3 + Gliss:

Kamikaze Zipang

Kami Miyabi/ISM

 

[BudgetPlan1]

Despite getting 2" of snow Sunday morning, another season of vehicle abuse begins. Some of the 2017 applications nearing the end, maybe squeak another season outta `em but we`ll see going forward. If they look weak, will just wash `em and slap some CanCoat on them and that`ll get us thru the summer if past experiences are any indication.

Still `existing`:

• Kamikaze Miyabi + Zipang + Overcoat, Applied 02/2019
• Gtechniq CSL + EXO V4, , Applied 02/2019
• 22ple VXPRO2 + Finitura + Vs1 Final Coat, Applied 02/2019
• CarPro Cquartz UK 3.0 + Gliss V2, Applied 02/2019
• Kamikaze Miyabi x 2, ISM x 1, Infinity Wax x 1, Overcoat applied 02/08/2018.
• Feynlab Ceramic + TopCoat applied 02/02/2018
• Gyeon Syncro applied 01/26/2018
• The Gloss Shop Ceramic Coating V2, applied 03/14/2018
• Nanolex Si3D + SiFinish applied 03/08/2018
• 22ple HPC + VS1 Final Coat applied March 2017, refresh 01/2017 w/ 22ple glass coat clay, 22ple Finitura & 22ple VS1 Final Coat
• Cquartz TiO2 & Gyeon Cure applied 01/2017; wash, decon, CanCoat + IGL Premier refresh 10/2017
• Gtechniq CSL + C2v3 applied 02/2017; wash, decon, CanCoat + Kamikaze Overcoat refresh 10/2017
• Gyeon Mohs + Cure applied 02/2017; wash, decon Gyeon CanCoat refresh 10/2017.
• Gloss Shop Ceramic Coating V2 applied 10/2017.
• Pearl Nano applied 03/2017.

 

[Saber732]

Budget,

Did you see the recent video posted by Kamikaze Collection on Overcoat 3.0? I`m still going through my stock of 1.0 lol. Is the window application new for 3.0 or was that in 2.1? I know my 1.0 has on the bottle not to apply onto windows.

https://youtu.be/x49o7f15018

 

[BudgetPlan1]

Budget,

Did you see the recent video posted by Kamikaze Collection on Overcoat 3.0? I`m still going through my stock of 1.0 lol. Is the window application new for 3.0 or was that in 2.1? I know my 1.0 has on the bottle not to apply onto windows.

https://youtu.be/x49o7f15018

Saw that, not sure what to make of it but don`t ever recall seeing/reading anything of that nature regarding Overcoat before.

"Chemical reaction by water flow"?

Guess we`ll just have to wait and see what the deal is, just never know. Overcoat 2.1 kinda had a short lifespan. Think I`ll be waiting for a bit more clarity

 

[rlmccarty2000]

I never could tell the difference between 1.0 and 2.0 so I decided to mix them together. They still look great. I never thought about applying them to glass. Maybe I’ll pickup some 3.0 when (if) Esoteric gets it. I haven’t bought anything in awhile...

 

[rlmccarty2000]

Regarding sliding angle vs contact angle dr Beasley’s has released a series of blog posts on this topic. It has very interesting information and they state sliding angle is the most important factor of a coating for self cleaning and reduction of water spots. I wish every coating would have the contact and sliding angle listed, I believe dr Beasley’s is the only one who lists both. Not posting links to the articles but they are easily searchable on their website. I would like to hear discussions on people’s thoughts on this subject.

Color me dumb but wouldn’t contact angle and sliding angle (never heard of this before) be the same or similar? If the water is not contacting the surface I would expect it to slide off. I’m still waiting for someone to buy Beasly’s $500 Coating and review it. It’s “on sale” for $425 in the clearance bin on AG.

 

[Coatings=crack]

Color me dumb but wouldn’t contact angle and sliding angle (never heard of this before) be the same or similar? If the water is not contacting the surface I would expect it to slide off. I’m still waiting for someone to buy Beasly’s $500 Coating and review it. It’s “on sale” for $425 in the clearance bin on AG.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RyH_fCSNKtg

Check it out


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[DetailZeus]

Color me dumb but wouldn’t contact angle and sliding angle (never heard of this before) be the same or similar? If the water is not contacting the surface I would expect it to slide off. I’m still waiting for someone to buy Beasly’s $500 Coating and review it. It’s “on sale” for $425 in the clearance bin on AG.

You`d be surprised. I used to work with water repellent fabrics and contact angle and sliding angle were distinct ASTM tests. Treatments with the highest contact angle didn`t always have the lowest sliding angle. It`s not like a steel bead where if it`s perfectly round it`s going to roll.

The other thing is water repellency and oil repellency were different tests. Just because you have great water repellency doesn`t automatically mean the same for oil. This is rarely talked about in detailing land which is unfortunate because oil is usually a lot harder to clean. Not a perfect metaphor but what would you rather get on your shirt, a splash of orange juice or a splash of motor oil? OJ I bet you get a fair bit off just by dunking your shirt in water. Motor oil, good luck without detergents.

If I could design my own sealant/coating I`d be prioritizing oil repellency at the expense of a little water contact angle if I had to.

 

[rlmccarty2000]

Thanks for the information on sliding angle. This is exactly why I love this forum, it lets me be educated on coatings other than just application procedures. I’ve been trying to learn as much about coatings as possible and this is the first time I’ve ever even heard about sliding angle.

I’m aware of the oil vs water thing on coatings. Most of the top coatings will mention oil resistance. IGL talks a lot about their coatings being “oleophobic” and I agree it is more important than being hydrophobic, especially in the area of self cleaning. Self cleaning and marring resistance are much more important than hydrophobicity, imho.


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[Accumulator]

Thanks for the information on sliding angle. This is exactly why I love this forum, it lets me be educated...

Same here!

 

[BudgetPlan1]

A few follow up items/thoughts now that I`ve had a bit of time to watch recent `new to me` things.


1. Cquartz UK 3.0 & Gliss V2
What a nice, reasonably priced, visually entertaining and well performing combo. Quick and easy to apply, stays looking good with little maintenance, if you like well-formed beads it`s really fun to look at. Had a thin layer of stone dust/concrete slurry running down the sides of the new F250 I used it on, dried on for a week, rinsed off nicely and still looking good. It`s a very nice gloss too. I like it.

2. Gtechniq CSL + EXOV4
The application was one of the most satisfying I`ve ever done, especially the CSL with the incredibly light touch on initial removal. Looks are very nice, not overdone but have to say I`m a bit surprised at the self cleaning ability, it lack thereof. It does nicely but certainly not in the Kamikaze or 22ple league in that respect.

It (EXO) has such a reputation for stellar water behavior that maybe my expectations were too high; I`m just not that taken by it. Longevity concerns aside as it`s too early to tell, but I`d rather use the CQ UK 3 + Gliss V2 than CSL + EXO. It`s not bad in any way, shape or form but my preferences apparently do not align with it`s strengths. Kinda a bummer cuz I really like Gtechniq product names and packaging, as irrelevant as that may be.

3. 22ple VXPRO2
So far, I`ll stick with 22ple`s HPC offering. Maybe the VXPRO2 will excel in longevity but so far it appears that HPC is more to my liking. Application was very, very easy (as is HPC) but the excellent self-cleaning of HPC is only matched (but not exceeded) by the highest-level 22ple consumer offering, VXPRO2. HPC also seems to have a very slight` advantage in outright gloss to my eyes. It`s certainly an excellent product and the equal of HPC but, as of yet, does not exceed HPC in any fashion...except the additional $20 in cost.

4. Kamikaze Miyabi + Zipang.
Mighta chose poorly on the vehicle I used it on. The new Transit Connect was assigned to a guy with no car of his own so I don`t really think I`m gonna get to see this vehicle much until the end of the Summer. It doesnt come to the shop but *maybe* once a week so hard to keep track of how it`s doing. When I did see it last week it was covered in bird bombs as apparently the guy lives/parks under power lines or other bird-friendly areas. Oops.

3 other little pleasing discoveries:

1. CarPro Reset...I think I like it better than my previous go-to, Gyeon Bathe. Seems to be a little stronger with no apparent ill-effects.

2. CarPro Eraser...I`m past my Gyeon Prep phase, sometimes I get the feeling it`s not as potent as some other panel wipes. Gtechniq PW is strong, as is Feynlab, but sometimes a bit grabby. Eraser seems like a nice, pleasant easy to use and non-offensive middle ground. Winner.

3. BigBoi Buddy air dryer...so small, maneuverable, well built and easy to use. Easily and quickly dries a car, almost just by waving your hand at it as it is so small in your hand. Fun, doesn`t take up much space and works well...its just `easy`.

Interesting stuff, always something to learn. Never really used too much CarPro stuff before but really enamored with their stuff I recently got to try.

 

[SWETM]

Thanks for your update!

Interesting reading and foundings. I don`t know how it is with Gliss v2. But Gliss v1 seemed to not be so durable and also don`t like tar removers which is a bummer in the environment I live in. If Gliss v2 is more chemical resistant as the CQUK coating it can be an option for me if going full blown coating later on. Or maybe the next best thing in the Carpro range CQUK topped with Classic/TiO2. Really glad they manage to upgrade the CQUK coating to a better version than before. The consumer range of it in hard environments has been awesome from it. But a little finicky application in the old version of CQUK.

Seems like the Miyabi and Zipang combo is for a real torture test LOL.

Carpro Reset car soap is just awesome. Have not tested Gyeon Bathe but as you mentioned is what I have heard from those that have tested both. But many also says that in the cleaning ability Gtechnic G-Wash is a notch better than Reset. And Reset has more lubrication than G-Wash. Tac System Mystic Bubble is one I have used and is almost on par with Reset. Tac System and Carpro products is very alike and with a better price on Tac System I have tested more from them. Don`t know if it`s a simualar difference in the US. But there coatings is also very alike. Tac System UHS coating would be interesting to hear how it is. One coating that is almost like a pro offering for the consumer range. Otherwise the Sparkle and Power Plus coatings is like the TiO2 and CQUK it says.

The Bigboi has been haveing my eyes opened when you where impressed by it. Nice when you find tools that works more than expected.

 

[BudgetPlan1]

Thanks for your update!

Interesting reading and foundings. I don`t know how it is with Gliss v2. But Gliss v1 seemed to not be so durable and also don`t like tar removers which is a bummer in the environment I live in. If Gliss v2 is more chemical resistant as the CQUK coating it can be an option for me if going full blown coating later on. Or maybe the next best thing in the Carpro range CQUK topped with Classic/TiO2. Really glad they manage to upgrade the CQUK coating to a better version than before. The consumer range of it in hard environments has been awesome from it. But a little finicky application in the old version of CQUK.

Gliss V2 also has the `No Tar Remover` warning so if that`s something you need to do often, likely not up your alley. CarPro was, overall, one of the pleasant surprises all around with Eraser, Reset, Essence and the coating package.

Gtechniq was a drag, though...such lofty expectations from what I have read. It`s still a very nice product, maybe thinking it would be amazing with EXO was my mistake in setting the bar so high. A great combo for sure but not earth shattering.

Seems like the Miyabi and Zipang combo is for a real torture test LOL.

Yeah, that didnt quite go as planned. The guy I thought we were giving the vehicle to was one who piles on tons of miles, probably 30k between April thru October...that would a been a nice usage scenario in relatively brief time.

Guy who ended up with it lives on a farm I think, have heard him talk about his goats and chickens before. This thing is going to be ruined by Fall as he also has no interest in even running it through a touchless wash on occasion. Truck he worked out of last year was a disaster inside and out by end of season; no way would I have picked that vehicle if I knew who was gonna be assigned to it. I get that they`re work vehicles and all but have a *little* respect. It`s probably parked in a chicken coop each night from the looks of things. Oh well...

Carpro Reset car soap is just awesome. Have not tested Gyeon Bathe but as you mentioned is what I have heard from those that have tested both. But many also says that in the cleaning ability Gtechnic G-Wash is a notch better than Reset. And Reset has more lubrication than G-Wash. Tac System Mystic Bubble is one I have used and is almost on par with Reset. Tac System and Carpro products is very alike and with a better price on Tac System I have tested more from them. Don`t know if it`s a simualar difference in the US. But there coatings is also very alike. Tac System UHS coating would be interesting to hear how it is. One coating that is almost like a pro offering for the consumer range. Otherwise the Sparkle and Power Plus coatings is like the TiO2 and CQUK it says.

May get into TAC at some point, maybe next year...have heard some good things about UHS. Have a bottle of Moonlight inbound; didnt do too well for me back in 2017 so wanna give it another go given its many favorable reviews. Maybe just an isolated case 2 years ago so wanna try again.

The Bigboi has been haveing my eyes opened when you where impressed by it. Nice when you find tools that works more than expected.

Used it again today after washing new car...just so freakin` handy and effective. Did order the BlowrPro as well last week but wont be in until end of May...`More Power` and all that. Overkill for me but gonna hang on wall so all I gotta do is drag out the 30ft hose. Laziness drives many of my decisions...

 

[The Guz]

I will say that Gliss V2 is a notch above in terms of slickness over V1. Application is the same. V2 feels so much nicer. Pretty darn close to Gyeon Skin.

I just put them side by side on my car to get a true durability of both over the next few months.

Yeah I do t know what to think about 22ple VX Pro2 at this point. I’m not sold on Finitura. Thought it was terrible in overall performance. The only thing nice about it is the slickness.

 

[SWETM]

Hmm that is not going to be a product for me the Gliss v2. But hey all products don`t suit everyone. And that`s what is so great with all different kind of products out there. With the physical disability I have I can`t do maintance washes as often as I want to. And during the winter months it can be long time between washes cause of the weather.

If we take Gyeon Syncro kit and Carpro CQUK/Gliss combo and even Gtechnic CSL/EXO combo. When and if the top coating wears off. Does the base coat caractics comes through and be what you have? Have been wondering about this for sometime and something that is rarely discussed. Sure it would be wearing down uneven. Or does the top coating bond chemically so it`s basicly done when the top coating is done. I mean the Syncro kit with Mohs and Skin is very different in behaviors. And when Skin is done the behavior could be something you don`t like. So another question that comes is how much does the base coating to excell the top coating. Or can it be that you could benefit as much with only the top coating on it`s own. Here would be the Gliss v2 as Skin is not available on it`s own. IIRC CSL/EXO has some chemical bonding when used together. Sure for customers this can be a non issue but for personal use the little more extreme behavior would be a reason to reapply when the top coating wears off. So what would you miss with only use Gliss v2 vs CQUK/Gliss v2 for an example?

Hehe totaly understand that you would have want the Miyabi and Zipang combo for someone that does a little maintance at least. Can be really interesting if it should hold up until the fall. And see if the self healing ability is still there and if it`s seems like it has worked during this time.

Really interesting testing with Skin vs Gliss v2 you have going on. And nice to hear that Carpro upped the v2 to be like Skin or near it.

 

[BudgetPlan1]

Took about a year but finally got around to doing Zipang-Miyabi-Zipang on one of our cars. Went on nicely, especially the Miyabi on top of the Zipang layer, almost sealant like in application and removal.

As temps in garage climbed into low 80`s by the 3rd layer (Zipang), could not move quite as quickly w reagards to apply/remove.

Seems to be a bit more `overtly` glossy than the Miyabi/ISM combo but that`s probably all I my head. Nothing looks better than a car when ya just finish it. Especially under florescent lights in a garage at night. Through the lens of a cell-phone camera. Optimum conditions for it looking better than reality.

Anyway, will let it sit inside for at least 36hr; car doesnt really go many places in Summer so could be sitting in there for a while. Pondered letting it go on it`s own but it would be near unholy for me not to slather Overcoat upon it so it`ll get that.

The Miyabi/ISM I polished off was applied in October, 2016 and was still doing very well, i really didnt plan to redo until next year. With its limited use and new place in the garage, i figure the Miyabi/Zipang will still be doing well for a few years.

We`ll see what happens going forward with it. Such a nice color of blue too.