The Truth..

III said:
Does the Bible prophesy a one-world government and a one-world currency in the end times?



Also keep in mind what the new world order is: It's a term used to describe the uniting of the world's superpowers to secure and maintain global peace, safety, and security. Synonymous with the term New World Order are the terms one world government and globalization. The government is going to have complete control.



What does the Bible say in Daniel 9:27? "He will confirm a covenant with many for one seven. In the middle of the seven he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."



So, what this is saying is the Antichrist will sign a peace treaty for 7 years. This peace treaty/covenant can be considered to be the new world order.
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I had put together a long, very long, reply but figured it would bore people to death so I thought a short reply would be best and I will try to get my point across in as short of a reply as possible.



The popular teaching among a great majority of churches is that there will be a second coming of Christ Jesus who will at that time catch up (rapture) His church and this will then begin the time of the Tribulation. At that end of this Tribulation Jesus will again return, cast Satan and the beast into the lake of fire along with all unsaved people and then create a new earth and a new heaven.



My asking of where does Scripture teach of a "new world order" was to see what your belief was on this and by your provided links you tend to be a futurist in your eschatology (for those not knowing eschatology is the study of future events, prophetic). I used to teach this very same thing and was also at the same time perplexed by many Scriptures that spoke of Jesus return as an event to happen very soon, not some 2000 years later.



In the last few years I have abandoned that teaching and I now see that all of Jesus words concerning His second coming have already taken place. I do not see any "rapture" coming for the timeline (as well as Jesus words) has to be grossly distorted to make it fit a later future event. There will be no "mark of the beast", no new world order.



Anthony
 
Anthony Orosco said:
I had put together a long, very long, reply but figured it would bore people to death so I thought a short reply would be best and I will try to get my point across in as short of a reply as possible.



The popular teaching among a great majority of churches is that there will be a second coming of Christ Jesus who will at that time catch up (rapture) His church and this will then begin the time of the Tribulation. At that end of this Tribulation Jesus will again return, cast Satan and the beast into the lake of fire along with all unsaved people and then create a new earth and a new heaven.



My asking of where does Scripture teach of a "new world order" was to see what your belief was on this and by your provided links you tend to be a futurist in your eschatology (for those not knowing eschatology is the study of future events, prophetic). I used to teach this very same thing and was also at the same time perplexed by many Scriptures that spoke of Jesus return as an event to happen very soon, not some 2000 years later.



In the last few years I have abandoned that teaching and I now see that all of Jesus words concerning His second coming have already taken place. I do not see any "rapture" coming for the timeline (as well as Jesus words) has to be grossly distorted to make it fit a later future event. There will be no "mark of the beast", no new world order.



Anthony
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well anthony, go ahead and slap one of these in your hand! dont worry, its coming around! so are you going to?? honest answer?

YouTube - Fox News Promotes verichip
 
You...you're asking for an "honest answer"?



Again, the evidence from Scripture indicates that these events have already taken place. Besides the "mark" was a spiritual mark and not a physical one.



There are 2 types of people within Scripture, Believers and non-believers. God has predestined some for salvation and some for damnation before the foundations of the earth therefore the "mark" is a spiritual one.



Using Scripture and reason where am I in error?



Anthony
 
so im taking that as a yes? you gonna get the chip when it becomes necessary to have one? and yes, it eventually will..



And you say the rapture has already happened?? wow..
 
Flawless Image said:
so im taking that as a yes? you gonna get the chip when it becomes necessary to have one? and yes, it eventually will..



And you say the rapture has already happened?? wow..
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I do not say it but rather the evidence from Scripture states it.



Please harmonize this passage with your belief that the second coming is still yet to take place.





27"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.



28"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."



How is it that there are still people alive today from that period of time so that they will see Jesus coming in His kingdom? Could it be that Jesus lied, was mistaken or that the Scriptures are in error? Those are the choices we have here OR one must commit exegetical gymnastics to make this verse mean the second coming is still yet a future event.



If you wish to continue please respond in an intelligent manner and not with "Well it's going to happen, just watch this video......"



I'm certain you can formulate an argument (and this does not mean it must be argumentative because I believe debate should be both exploring and learning) to support your view so I again I ask please show me my error through Scripture and reason and if done I will surely concede. Remember, I used to teach the future events of rapture and such within Bible classes so I have not always had the view I have now.



Anthony
 
Anthony, you are a brave man, but do yourself a favor and give up now. This is a lost cause if I have ever seen one...
 
Jakerooni said:
The ulimate Government conspiracist v. the Ulimate relegious fanatic... If nothing else it's been an interesting read...
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Woah now.....I may be a zealot but "fanatic" is a strong word:chuckle:
 
Anthony Orosco said:
The popular teaching among a great majority of churches is that there will be a second coming of Christ Jesus who will at that time catch up (rapture) His church and this will then begin the time of the Tribulation. At that end of this Tribulation Jesus will again return, cast Satan and the beast into the lake of fire along with all unsaved people and then create a new earth and a new heaven.



There will be no "mark of the beast", no new world order.

Anthony
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First, the rapture is not the second coming. The Rapture is when Jesus Christ returns to remove the church (all believers in Christ) from the earth. The Rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. Believers who have died will have their bodies resurrected, and along with believers who are still living will meet the Lord in the air. This will all occur in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye. The Second Coming is when Jesus returns to defeat the antichrist, destroy evil, and establish His Millennial Kingdom. The Second Coming is described in Revelation 19:11-16.



The Bible makes it perfectly clear there will be a mark of the beast. The beast refers to the Antichrist.



"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark of his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name." Revelation 13:16-17



Jesus never used the term New World Order but we know what He was referring to when He told us the Antichrsit would control the world’s economy by forcing his mark in everyones right hand or forehead.



The Bible makes it clear there will be a new world order. Remember what the new world order is. Peace, total government control, one world currency. (cashless society)



Regading the cashless society: Many people today find it difficult to believe that those days will ever come or if it does how they can be hurt by it.



"Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days."

[James 5:1-3]



Regarding peace:



"While people are saying, peace and safety, destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape."

1 Thessalonians 5:3



The quest for a new world order/one world government has been going on for a long time. For example, on Feb. 17, 1953, Financier Paul Warburg said before the U.S. Senate: "We shall have world government whether or not you like it, by conquest or consent." This quest for world domination can be traced back to the creation of the "Illuminati", a secret society, in 1776.
 
Anthony Orosco said:
Again, the evidence from Scripture indicates that these events have already taken place. Besides the "mark" was a spiritual mark and not a physical one.

Anthony
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What events? The tribulation? The second coming? Doesn't matter cause neither of these events have taken place, but are close. If we were already living in the tribulation, the Antichrist would have had to come forth. This has not happened yet. Furthermore, the rapture would have occured already, which would mean millions of Christians missing on this planet.



Then, the Antichrist would have signed a 7 year piece agreement with Israel. (daniel 9:27) This has not happened yet either.



A Bible Prophecy Study Chart



Are you sure about the mark being spiritual?



Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.



1. Scripture says it is a physical mark that is placed on or in the right hand or the forehead of the one who receives it



If one is to totally spiritualize the mark, then one must spiritualize the buying and selling as well.



2. It is used to buy or sell material goods in the economies of the world, and it's rather obvious that the world is slowly working its way to such a system. This mark appears to be clearly linked to the physical, material realm, but it does have spiritual ramifications because of it connection to the name and number of the antichrist. To relegate the mark to JUST the spiritual realm strongly indicates the work of an active imagination explaining away the simple words of Scripture: it is used to buy and sell material goods. If one spiritualizes the mark in Revelation 13, then one must also spiritualize the buying and selling. There would have to be a transformation of some sort, to change it from a physical mark needed to buy and sell to a non-physical mark that would only be spiritually recognized and yet be used to buy and sell. There is no such transformation or evolution of such a mark in Scripture.



Mark of the Beast a Physical Mark
 
III said:
Then, the Antichrist would have signed a 7 year piece agreement with Israel. (daniel 9:27) This has not happened yet either.
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My brother has Israeli citizenship and lives there. I'll let him know to be on the lookout for "al diablo." Currently the Israelis might be a bit preoccupied with far more earthly based realities, i.e. Iran with nukes and Hezbollah in Lebanon. Not to mention that death cult Hamas in their backyard.
 
Anthony Orosco said:
I do not say it but rather the evidence from Scripture states it.



Please harmonize this passage with your belief that the second coming is still yet to take place.





27"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.



28"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."



How is it that there are still people alive today from that period of time so that they will see Jesus coming in His kingdom? Could it be that Jesus lied, was mistaken or that the Scriptures are in error? Those are the choices we have here OR one must commit exegetical gymnastics to make this verse mean the second coming is still yet a future event.



If you wish to continue please respond in an intelligent manner and not with "Well it's going to happen, just watch this video......"



I'm certain you can formulate an argument (and this does not mean it must be argumentative because I believe debate should be both exploring and learning) to support your view so I again I ask please show me my error through Scripture and reason and if done I will surely concede. Remember, I used to teach the future events of rapture and such within Bible classes so I have not always had the view I have now.



Anthony
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I believe III responded in the 'lntellingent manner' you requested.. So....?
 
Spilchy said:
My brother has Israeli citizenship and lives there. I'll let him know to be on the lookout for "al diablo." Currently the Israelis might be a bit preoccupied with far more earthly based realities, i.e. Iran with nukes and Hezbollah in Lebanon. Not to mention that death cult Hamas in their backyard.
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Is this a joke? I don't mind talking to people, but don't mock the scriptures.



Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Galations 6:7
 
III said:
Is this a joke? I don't mind talking to people, but don't mock the scriptures.



Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Galations 6:7
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All with play out, one way or another.. Just give it time.. Spilchy, I will pray for you..
 
I love tossing out oddball questions just to ponder.... But why are humans the only creatures on the entire planet that beleive in religion? Woulnd't one think if "God" created everything that at least one other animal/creature of some sort would acknowledge that? Just curious
 
Jakerooni said:
...why are humans the only creatures on the entire planet that beleive in religion? Wouldn't one think if "God" created everything that at least one other animal/creature of some sort would acknowledge that?
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I guess when at least one other animal/creature starts talking to humans then we will have their opinion on the subject! :p
 
Flawless Image said:
I believe III responded in the 'lntellingent manner' you requested.. So....?
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Yes Flawless he sure did.



For the record I am not a proponent of the preterist theological view (well at least not a hyper-preterist) but I did post that opposing view knowing that you would not be able to provide any objections to it. Why? Because it would require research and reading.



Dave though did present a "researched" view against it and gave objective evidence in doing so something that is totally lacking in everything you presented here. Your "evidence" in support of your view is based on conjecture, rumor and YouTube feed conspiracies.



So while I am not an avid fan of the hyper-preterist view on eschatology I am of the Predestination/Presuppositional views and to hold to more of a partial preterist view.



Dave, thanks for your input.



Anthony
 
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