Sherman8r44 said:
I couldn't have said it better! :xyxthumbs
Len, that Lincoln LS V8 of yours came in DEAD LAST in a 2002 Car and Driver comparison test where the other six were V6s, IIRC. THAT is Ford's fault. The Contour didn't sell because it was too small for the class which didn't suit the needs of the consumer shopping for that class of car. Despite losing some of it's tuner crowd, the Civic still managed to pull out strong sales for Honda. And yes, it is Ford's fault that they sell Town Cars next to LS's--it's called MARKETING. It is up to them to make sure that the car is branded and sold properly so as not to inspire these judgements in people (it's not irrational prejudice, it is induced judgement ). The reason that people have a prejudice against GM's crappy cheap interiors is because they have been that way for a long, long time. And would you like to tell me the names of these "same suppliers"?.
Chrysler has managed to keep out of the borderline Chapter 11 state of GM and Ford by producing solid, exciting cars. Excellent, well-marketed cars like the Chrysler 300C manage to win comparison tests AND sell quite a few vehicles. I have not seen any kind of inspirational designs out of GM like the 300C or the PT Cruser (and don't say the HHC, copycats always suck). Plus, Ford and GM (the latter in particular) are reknown for shoddy build quality and suspect reliability. That reputation IS absolutely their fault--there is no conspiracy, nobody trying to take them down--the quality and refinement is just totally lacking.
P.S. It's spelled nonsense
When I want you to correct my spelling, I'll ask you..lol. BTW, it's spelled
PT Cruiser, not PT Cruser...pot calling the kettle black. I think we both forgot to spell check!!
And the designer of the PT Cruiser left Chrysler to go work for GM....where he designed the HHC. Sort of explains the resemblance I think.
Eagle Ottawa is one of the largest suppliers of leather to all the luxury auto makers (including the Cadillac STS & CTS, and the Honda Ridgeline and the Mercedes Benz R Class and the M Class ).
Other interior suppliers include Visteon (Want to buy an Infinity QX luxury SUV built in Canton, Mississippi? Same Visteon that supplies Lincoln, Ford, & Mercury also supplies Nissan, and that includes instrument panels, exterior front end clip and lighting, and some engine electronics), Delphi - who is supplying the Mercedes Benz R Class
and the M Class in Vance, Alabama with the entire instrument panel and cockpit module - you know Delphi, the former GM division, Johnson Controls supplies seats, made with Eagle Ottawa's leather, to GM, Mercedes and Nissan, among other. Lear supplies headliners and carpets to GM (including Cadillac), Chrysler, Mercedes, Ford (including Lincoln) and Toyota (including Avalon).
Many of the same Japanese transplant suppliers also supply Ford, GM, and Chrysler - Ford's C3 cars (Fusion, Milan, and Zephyr) get their 6 speed automatics from Aisin Warner, until Ford starts making their own version of a joint Ford-GM designed 6 speed later this year. Denso supplies Toyota and Ford with AC components. NHK supplies Honda, GM, and Ford with parts. Takata, a Japanese safety systems manufacturer with their USA Headquarters in Auburn Hills, MI, supplies Ford, Nissan, Honda and other with airbags. Lear supplies seat-belts to Ford, Toyota, and Mercedes. Tower Automotive makes frames for the Ford Explorer and the Nissan Pathfinder. Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, and Honda engines and transmissions made in North America are getting engine blocks cast by the same suppliers, in the some of the same plants, including Intermet.
The place I'm working at now is quoting on machine parts for assembly line equipment being made by one Detroit company for Ford, GM, Nissan and Honda.
You're right about the Town Car being an old fashioned POS, as is the Crown Victoria and Grand Marquis. Try find a livery service/executive sedan service that wants Ford to dump the Town Car. Or for that matter, a limo conversion/manufacturing company that wants the Town Car dropped. They may use other vehicles, including SUV's and unibody vehicles like the larger Cadillac, but as the limo companies what their preference for room, ride, and durability is for limos. The majority of the industry still prefers the land barge Ford calls the Town Car. The new Ford management is probably still going to dump the Town car as of summer 2007, and St. Thomas Assembly, home of the Crown Vic will go down to one shift to sell Crown Vic to fleets only. BTW, I hate all three of them, but my brother, who works for Ford as a zone manager (wholesales cars to dealers) said that until six months ago, all his Houston and Dallas dealers bitched that Ford might drop the three of them. Then gases prices shot up some more, and now no one is saying anything. But having dealers cry about wanting to still sell the land yachts as of last spring & summer tells you what a PITA it is to market cars when you have a legacy component to your customer base.
Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego are being positioned to replace Crown Victoria at the retail level, even though Crown Vic owners don't want a buckets/console/floor shift car - Ford has told them "tough". BTW, I'll take my Montego over the 2007 Camry any day - I have way more room, and I like the higher seating position and the Volvo derived safety features.
And despite what you said about Zephyr, it still selling fairly well - only thing holding back sales is a supplier problem with Collins & Aikman. Most dealers are in short supply with Zephyr.
The Town Car's replacement in Lincoln's line up:
link here - despite the "concept" nomenclature, I've already quoted prototype parts for this vehicle, and it is going into production pretty much as is with very few changes (mostly the exterior mirrors).
You want me to go on? Try know something about this industry in North America, before you issue a challenge like "And would you like to tell me the names of these "same suppliers"?.". I've been involved in this industry as a supplier since 1985.
