The Dawn Wash (let's be a little more clear)

From Proctor and Gamble's web site:



"Question

Can I wash my car with dishwashing detergent?

Answer

Your car surface and the dirt that gets on it are a lot different from the food soils and dishes that dishwashing liquids clean effectively. We don't recommend them for cleaning your car."



When the manufacturer of the product says "don't do it" then you probably shouldn't do it.
 
This thread is heading in a direction that I really didn't want it to go,... it just seems like every other dawn wash thread on here, where everyone gives thier two cents on if it should be used or not. I already know that there are better alternatives for stripping wax. As a matter of fact, If I was working on a well prepped car, I would just polish over it, and not owrry about it. I'm not cencerned with "stripping wax" at all.....I'm more concerned with really abused vehicles, vehicles that have so many bonded contaminants that doing just a regular wash wouldn't be much help. So much so, that if you tried claying after a normal wash, or without trying some sort of body solvent, that you would be able to hear the contaminants scrape your paint while claying, and/or it would feel very rough.



I already know, and have made the descision a LONG time ago, that I am going to use a Dawn wash on really neglected, "beater" vehicles that people bring me and have done so with what seems to be NO adverse effects whatsoever. Here's a perfect example: Sunday I have a little white Geo Metro (rolls eyes) that's owned by a 21yr old girl. The paint on this car is in such bad shape that you can run your finger down certain panels and the oxidation from the paint will turn your finger a diffrent color. The car looks like it hasnt seen love in at least over a year. The lower panels have so much contaminants, bugs, road paint, tar, and other things. When you look at the lower section of the car it almost, makes you want to give up.



I would MUCH rather use a dawn wash on this car, and possibly remove a lot of the stuck on stuff, then to wash with a regular soap, and leave it all behind. Only to have to spend a lot of time attempting to clay it all off, wasting clay, and marring the finish (scince there are wayyy more contaminants down there then usuall)
 
Ah go ahead and use Dawn. Follow with any good high-lube car soap or straight to clay/polish. No big deal in using it.



I use Megs APC+ (last gallon I have since change to newer APC) to remove heavy dirt. Works very well, but not as cheap as Dawn or other dish detergents.



Yes, Dawn and others are alkaline, but not enough to damage unless used every time on same car. Besides, you are going to dress any rubber, vinyl, plastic etc anyway with 303 or other dressing right? To really damage rubber, vinyl etc with dish detergents, you'd have to wash it every day with a very high amount in your wash water bucket. An ounce per gallon will not do any harm.



Think also of when dish detergents are used to clean Rubbermaid, or other plastic items in the sink. Dilution is much lower in the sink. However, put same items in a dishwasher and use the very high alkaline dishwashing detergent, now you start to get damage due to the very high alkalinity of dishwasher detergent, dilution level and heat.



So, as long as you're not using it on a daily basis, it works fine. Sure, it doesn't have the lube of other car detergents/soaps, but first wash to get or soften any hard debris along with brake dust is OK. You just have to be a bit more cautious as to how you remove the debris. If by a wash mitt, chances are it may leave tracking due to lack of lube to float and cushion it off the finish. Best is a powerful stream of water, then go back to high-lube car wash soaps and your mitt. Then, any remaining will be "floated" a bit more, less risk of marring. Feel the finish after a Dawn wash with your clean hand and then go with whatever you need next.



Regards,

Deanski
 
I use to have a student working for me that went to work at P&G and I ask him to find out about Dawn and washing cars. This is what he came back with; Dawn is not made for washing cars but the current formula probably will not cause any damage to the auto. Dawn formula is in constantly changing and P&G doesn’t not test Dawn on automotive surfaces. The majority of Dawn formula changes are additives to replenish oils to the hands, many people wash dishes several times a day and this oil relishing is a necessary additive to any products that come in frequent contact with the skin. Dawn and other products have a form of wax to make dishes sheet water rather than bead to prevent spotting, also this wax will build up and make it easer over time to clean the dishes. Every time you see that Dawn has increase the cleaning power 1 fold you skin conditioners have increase by 5 fold. I ask if he would use it and he said no, a large portion of Dawn has nothing to do with cleaning and car surfaces do not benefit from skin conditioners.
 
Neo62381 said:
This thread is heading in a direction that I really didn't want it to go...
Click to expand...



Happens every time, huh? :nixweiss



Here's a perfect example: Sunday I have a little white Geo Metro (rolls eyes) ..[in terrible condition].. I would MUCH rather use a dawn wash on this car, and possibly remove a lot of the stuck on stuff, then to wash with a regular soap..
Click to expand...



That's what I'd use Dawn on too, unless I thought it really needed the ABC type treatment.
 
Accumulator, sometimes, :funnypost ..........and yeah, I've been looking into some of the autoint "A" solvent, it looks really appealing, and I think I'm going to order some later on (low funding) to use on customer's cars, that are actually "REAL" vehicles.
 
xTravBx said:
I thought plastic and rubber are actually -made- from oils...?
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Sure, petroleum is used to make a lot of things, that doesn't mean that the finished product has any "oil" in it. Manure is used as fertilizer on many crops, does that mean you are eating manure in your vegetables?



pogo123 said:
When the manufacturer of the product says "don't do it" then you probably shouldn't do it.
Click to expand...



IMO the reason P&G tells you not to use Dawn on your car is the same reason people who make car wash tell you not to use dishwashing detergent on your car--it is more likely to strip your wax.
 
Im going to add "I'd be the day Dawn touches my car" in my sig.............I dont care if "Its not going to damage anything with one use"....It still has no use or place, in my detailing arsenal.......... I shouldnt have to replace, what it removes....

And on another note, as I have seen in so many "sealant durability" threads...Why are we so concerned with what is resistant to Dawn, when we're not using Dawn, to maintain our cars appearance/finish?
 
xTravBx said:
Actually yes.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/09/15/tainted.spinach.ap/index.html
Click to expand...

Actually NO! Organic farming and gardening is older than time. The root cause is this incident is not yet understood....and don't be fooled, your petro-chemical food is a disaster waiting to happen:

The Meatrix



Plastics are petroleum based, but do not contain oil. Plastics, rubbers and vinyls are impervious to mositure. Dawn/water does not get past the surface.

Graying caused by detergent is merely the removal of grease, dirt, grime, any dressing and perhaps some UV degraded surface material.



So lets recap.

Dawn is too harsh on the paint.

Dawn does or doesn't remove wax?

It will harm plastics, vinyl and rubber?



1) Little fluffy girls/women have their hands in the stuff every nite - seem to survive okay.

2) Dawn is a degreaser, and it may well remove carnuba - hard to say with polymers.

3) We use rubber and plastic in industry to protect against corrosive chemicals and acids - Dawn is nothing compared to most of these.

4) Saying that dawn is too harsh on paint, but then claying, polishing, etc. is too funny since these later things are far more abrasive on the finish.



Someone wrote, if you're going to polish, why bother washing with dawn?



<rhetorical> So, if your going to polish, why wash the car at all? eek



Each level of cleaning takes advantage of the previous level. I washed my mother-in-laws car and even though I was going to clay, I used a bug/tar remover to get the tar off.



I wouldn't suggest routine washing with a dishwashing detergent, but at times when a more powerful cleaner/degreaser is called for, it makes sense to use a product that can handle the task. It's the extra cleaning power of the degreaser tips the scales - and really a Dawn wash once or twice a year is not going to harm the vehicle.
 
Back to my original question... :sadpace: What does a Dawn wash consist of? Is there a measurement of soap to water that is diffrent from the measurement of a regular car wash soap? Is there a specific version of Dawn that needs to be used....(I believe that someone said blue?)
 
FWIW:



I saw something liket his come up within the last couple of years here, saying there is no need to use a Dawn wash if you are going to clay/polish. The poster purposely waxed over some dirt, then went back and clayed over it in an attempt to remove it, and it didn't remove the dirt until he did an excessive amount of claying on the area. I tried the same thing and had the same result (clayed 1 week later). Washed over it with dawn and it came off quite easily.
 
Neo62381 said:
1. Normal car wash soaps are diluted 1oz. per gallon, would it be the same with Dawn? More? Less? If so, why?

2. Does it have to be Dawn only? Are there other dishwashing detergents (possibly cheaper) that could be used as an alternative? One's with less, or more cleaning ability maybe?
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Pull the MSDS for Dawn and several "car wash" detergents. You'll find the same ingredients in the same quantity. The dilution ratio accordingly would be the same.



You can use other products besides Dawn. Heck, you can use Tide, Cascade, 409, etc. All clean well and have various advantages, and disadvantages.



My personal dislike with Dawn is the way it rinses. More specifically, the way it doesn't rinse. No matter what I do, I always get very visible streaking with Dawn.



One of these times I'm going to use Cascade. I want to see what the sheeting action is like.
 
Pre-Autopia I used Dawn to wash my car every week to 2 weeks for 5 years and didn't see one single negative effect vs. using the car soaps I use now. I'm not planning on going back to Dawn but has anyone actually experienced or seen these ill effects from using Dawn.
 
I don't know about ever using laundry detergents on anything any time soon;-) (no pun intended)

I definateley know what you mean by rinse issues.

One thing I really like to do during a dawn wash, especially on a really messed up vehicle is clay, for some reason all those many contaminants just seem to "release" into the clay just a tad bit easier.



I really feel like the more experienced detailers here on this board, are looking at me shaking thier head going "stupid kid". But FWIW when I'm working on the reaaaly nasty looking cars, that have seen NO love whatsoever....It really does make the job a tad more easier. BUT....I would NEVER use Dawn on ANY THING in more than semi-decent shape!
 
Neo62381 said:
I really feel like the more experienced detailers here on this board, are looking at me shaking thier head going "stupid kid". But FWIW ....It really does make the job a tad more easier...
Click to expand...



Maybe some are doing that, but not all ;) If something works for you I wouldn't care what anybody says. Heh heh, similar to the dire warnings about Dawn, I remember people saying that putting wax on my Jag's rubber trim would mess it up ("the petroleum distillates will degrade the rubber")...after 20-some years of doing it there are no problems at all. Go by your own experience when you know something works, just be careful when doing outside-the-box experiments until you're sure it's OK.
 
Ah for Christ Sake! Come on...It's only a soap/detergent! :cry: :sosad



What the hell, are you all going to wash the car every damn day with this? No?? Didn't think so. Move on!



You're not going to watch your trim and rubber dry out. :argue



If you use it just to nock-off some heavy dirt or strip oils and waxes only so often, you're not hurting a damn thing. You are going to still clay and polish correct? Christ-O-Mighty, what a lot of whinning about Dawn. If I was Artie Lang it would be more like this: WAHHH Dawn's going to dry out my rubber WAHHH it's drying out my plastic WAHHHH my tires just melted WAHHHH. (GO SEE BEER LEAGUE) [shamless plug].



Now go and find something else to discuss. :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock:



Regards,

Deanski
 
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