The 32k Question S4, M3, ect?

You're correct. The 335i only comes with an electronic differential (traction/stability control) which applies braking power (not torque xfer) upon slip. So on the track, the E46 M3 w/ LSD and M suspension out handles the 335i imo. However, if you're mod friendly, the E90/E92 chassis is stiffer (gradual improvement of each generation), and the potential of the twin turbo is huge. E.g. Depending on the tune, $1500 (as low as ~$500) will yield an easy ~60HP ~80LB-FT of improvement (we're talking 0-60 in ~4.3s). Add some coilovers, and you'll be trying to chase (not beat) the current generation M3, instead of following behind last generation's.



Lastly the OP wants a 4 seater, and the high torque (in the low RPM range) of a twin turbo makes it a great daily driver. You won't have to rev it up to screaming proportions on the street like you do in an M car.



Accumulator said:
Do those come with limited-slip diffs? I'm not Bimmer expert, but IIRC a lot of them have stability/traction systems instead of a real LSD.
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An LSD for an e92 coupe is $1600 for internals, ~$2200 for the full pumpkin. I have the internals (BMW started welding the diff after March 07 production). My tune was $900, got me 68hp and 81lb/ft of torque. Cat back only netted 11hp and 12lb/ft of torque. Not sure on downpipes, no dyno since then.
 
I've driven both..I dont have a ton of wheel time in it, but if it were ME......living in GA with no snow....M3. If I'm having to deal with snow...S4.
 
Picus & orionredwing- OK, sounds like the aftermarket has the diff issue covered. Just seems odd to me that BMW doesn't offer them on some models :nixweiss



And yeah, certain turbo setups work great, though I'm usually sorta a naturally-aspirated guy myself.
 
I used to drive a RWD car with an open differential and summer tires with no traction control or ABS in the PA winter.



Take it slow, throw some 50lb bags of rock salt in the trunk and you're good to go. It's all in the driving technique. If you grab some dedicated winter tires, all the better. Tire companies are even making winter tires with solid performance so you can still tool around pretty well when the roads are dry in between snow.
 
Accumulator said:
Picus & orionredwing- OK, sounds like the aftermarket has the diff issue covered. Just seems odd to me that BMW doesn't offer them on some models :nixweiss



And yeah, certain turbo setups work great, though I'm usually sorta a naturally-aspirated guy myself.
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No BMW's but "M's" get LSD's. It's silly, but that's how they've always done it.
 
Picus- "Silly" is right...I'll never understand why builders of The Ultimate Driving Machine wouldn't at least make LSDs an across the board option :nixweiss
 
I have both. An '05 S4 and an '04 M3.



They are very different cars but each great in their own way. Both are fast, no doubt.



The Audi is better built, hands down. Better interior, better fit and finish. It feels more refined, is more luxurious in feel compared to the M. AWD traction is impressive but it leaves no doubt that this is one heavy car which likes to plow into corners. An impressive overall car and I like it better for daily driving and long runs.



The M3 is more a 'drivers' car and 'sporty' feeling. It's easier and more fun to chuck around a track, which I do often. The suspension is tighter and the steering is indeed better. I think it looks cooler, certainly more muscular in appearance. And the aftermarket is much more supportive. Sounds good, too. This, also, is pretty much a daily driver for me as well, but with a more raw edge than the S4. And it gets better gas mileage than the S4!



IMO, you really can't go wrong with either. At least that's what I tell my wife every time I make the insurance payments! :D
 
E46!!!

Given the choice i would buy the M3 and not look back.

Also early model E46's (2002ish) with 50k miles are going for just over 20k now so that is considerably lower than an S4.
 
Accumulator said:
Brad B. - Hey, haven't seen you on here much lately :wavey



Is your S4 the same silver one you once had for sale?
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Oh, I have been lurking!



I sold my 2001 S4 when I purchased my 2005 S4. Both are silver! I'm in a rut!
 
Brad B. said:
I sold my 2001 S4 when I purchased my 2005 S4. Both are silver! I'm in a rut!
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Ah, OK...I toyed with the idea of buying your '01 but I really prefer the V8 models.

I like the '05s, still had the old-school front end :xyxthumbs Did you get the tip or manual?



Heh heh, you think *you* are in a rut...with an '00 A8 and an '01 S8, both in silver and five (or was it six :think: ) silver Audis before those, I *know* I'm in a rut...but certain Audis just look *so* right in silver :D
 
is the S4 interior better than the M3? id think the bmw would have better quality craftsmanship.



id say go for the M3, and maybe buy a 2000 dollar truck to beat on
 
lbcsublime9 said:
is the S4 interior better than the M3? id think the bmw would have better quality craftsmanship.
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You would think that... but BMW quality is declining, IMO. My roommate's 2 year old 5-series has had several panels falling off/fading in her interior. She has also had multiple coolant lines leaking that they say nothing is wrong with (could just be idiots at the dealership, I know). I'm not saying Audi's are the end-all be-all of quality interiors by any means, but to me they certainly beat the crap out of BMW interiors, not to mention the dingy orange lighting they all have. Barf. Of course, it's all personal preference. I'm the type of person that would never spend $35k on a Subaru STi even if it did 0-60 in 2 seconds due to the ridiculously cheap interior. Unless you're a really cool kid that likes to "ghost ride da whip", you spend your time in the interior of the car while driving, not the exterior, and that should feel like you got your money's worth every time you get in.



Consider resale as well. A 2005 Audi S4 started at $47k and went into the low $50k's with all the options. Edmunds upper TMV range is $32k as of current. A 2005 BMW M3 started at $47k as well for the coupe base and went into the low $50k's for all the options. Edmunds upper TMV range is $34k as of current. So, they are both about the same.



All in all, I think it just boils down to what brand you feel more confident in going with. Go with the one that if in 2 years it breaks down and everyone is laughing at you, you'll feel confident in knowing you got a dud, rather than wishing you had gone with the other brand.
 
Agree, new BMW vehicles, the interiors are so cheap feeling and bland. The older models were much better, the new 3 series is really cheap inside. When I drove my friends E60 M5, no comparison, the E39 M5 had it beat soundly in interior...pretty sad.



Same goes for Porsche, only now they improved with the 997, the 996 interior was crap compared to the 993. 996 rattles, pieces falling off, cheap leather and interior bits etc. The 993 was solid, like carved from a block of steel.
 
i have a e46 330ci, lowered w/ aftermarket sport shocks and struts, performance tires, etc. but i cannot get the car to handle the way i want and i really think it's b/c of the weight, its just too heavy - 3400 lbs - to be thrown around. btw: the s4 is heavier at 3600+ lbs.



when i got the e46 i also had a VW corrado (after market sport shocks and struts, performance tires) as a second car and to be honest it was way more fun to drive. i know the bmw ppl are going spit out their red wine when they read that but i could throw that thing into a turn at almost any speed and know exactly how it was going to react and know exactly how i was going to react. w/ the e46 every turn brings a new surprise.
 
haper- I know *exactly* what you mean with the Corrado/e46 M3 fun-to-drive comparison! I felt the same way when I had some mighty good cars that just didn't put the same smile on my face that some "lesser" cars did. There's more to enjoying a car than its ultimate capabilities, especially on the street.



Honest-to-god, I sometimes think the most fun I *ever* had with a car (on public streets ;) ) was my '87 VW Quantum Synchro wagon with a tweaked supension, at least when the weather was bad. I used to leave the Porsches/etc. in the garage because I simply enjoyed the VW more.
 
Picus said:
No BMW's but "M's" get LSD's. It's silly, but that's how they've always done it.
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Not always. At least up through '93, you could get a 325i with either the sport or inclement weather packages which got you a LSD.



IIRC, ASC (anti skid control) came on the BMW scene in '94. But I still think you could get a LSD with either of the two option packages above so long as you didn't specify the ASC option.



I believe once the 328i was introduced in '96, the LSDs were gone as options and ASC was standard.
 
I've driven both on the track... I think you will be very disappointed with the V8 S4 on the track due to the weight and that the brakes are not made to go on the track. There are no ductings to help cool them. Thus, the car (with it's heavy weight) really gets the brakes fading quite a bit. The E46 M3 is not lightweight either but is significantly better on the track. You will need 4 snow tires during the winter and it will drive better than an SUV without snow tires. I live near you so I know about the weather.



So if you are inclined to go on track, there is no question that you must get the M3. If you do track the S4, you will need to get some pretty aggresive brake pads to compensate for the brake fade - Hawk Blues 9012 (kills wheel finishes) or Hawk HT-10's.
 
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