Sweet Night HDR-esque Shots of my 2011 Ford Fiesta

[Lumadar]

I sense a little bit of hostility in your post above^^^. You sure you aren't getting paid by Ford???



Funny that the American automakers like to point to initial quality all the time. To me, I am more concerned with long term quality than initial quality, as I keep a car longer than a couple of years. When it comes to compact and subcompact cars, the American cars historically just don't hold up as well as the Japanese models over the long run. That is part of the reason the American car resell values are so poor. You say you live in the present vs the past....if you are like me and you keep a car for a long time, you have to look at the models from 5-7 years ago, and how the majority of them tend to look at the current time, to try to guage how the current model year cars will look several years down the road. Maybe 10 years from now we can look back and say that it is the opposite, but for now, I have to judge on what I have seen in the past.



I still disagree with you about the names. It is very hard to build consumer loyalty to a particular model when the manufacturer changes the names constantly. If names weren't important, then why did Ford change the name of the Five Hundred (which wasn't selling well) to the Taurus? Obviously they wanted to tap into some of those loyal Taurus buyers from the past. For most Americans, they probably have no idea what the Fiesta name represents overseas, but are very aware of the Civic and Corolla names. Case in point, I have an older friend who saw an article about the Fiesta coming back. He said, "I hope it isn't as bad as that piece of junk Ford sold here back in the late 70's and early 80's". I told him that the Fiesta had come a long ways since then, and was known as a nice vehicle overseas. He was oblivious to that. I have to think he is more representative of the majority of the population.





I am not making the blanket statement that all American vehicles are junk. I am however stating that I think the Americans have given us a lot of poor examples of compact and subcompact vehicles over the years, and have a tough road ahead of them if they want to become the class of the field in those categories. I do agree that the full size American trucks are better. I would take a Silverado or F150 over a Tundra or Titan any day. However, I'd take a Tundra over a Ram. On the other hand, I wouldn't drive a Ranger or Colorado if you gave me one. They are waaaaay behind the Tacoma and Frontier in my opinion. Heck, the Corvette, new Camaro, and some Mustang models are much nicer (especially for the money) than a lot of these Japanese supercars (like the Nissan GTR).



At the end of the day, cars are like wax - buy and use what you want and what makes you happy.

I didn't intend any hostility- some people misinterpret my point because I speak with passion and conviction, but not hostility. So sorry if you think I was attacking, I was just explaining where I was coming from :bigups



Also, if you think I am being passionate about the car because I am being paid, do a search for "ford" and my user name. I've always been passionate about the company...in fact, I predicted the exact situation they are in now as they are growing in popularity and offering a better product lineup with each day that passes. I don't endorse anything unless I believe it in my heart- and I believe in Ford and this awesome country with all my heart. :xyxthumbs



They are pointing to initial quality because they know that A.) They went through a period of dismal quality, and B.) They realize they have changed and things are improving. But to discount initial quality by saying that all it reflects is initial quality is wrong.



Studies have proven (and simple logic) that initial quality is a good INDICATOR of long term quality. Obviously, it isn't the end all, be all, but it isn't just a indication of initial quality either.



As for the names thing, I agree that branding matters, but to say the name of the individual vehicle is THAT important I think you might be off the mark. But, if you want to make that case, the FORD brand/name has been around and an American icon for longer than Toyota and Honda... :doh



I would place more importance in the brand name and recognition than the model... people rarely buy the same model several times, especially on entry level cars like the Civic, Fiesta, or Corolla. But I could see them sticking with a brand name... you have a point there. :think2



Everything else you said, I 100% agree with. We're on the same page there. Like I said, the Fiesta the US once had was a total jalopy... no ifs, ands or buts about it. Ford realizes that, and they realize the gamble of sticking by the name, but at the same time they are riding a huge wave of positive energy right now and people are (well, clearly not all, but many) are finally willing to listen to what Ford has to say.



It will be a long, hard road to get Ford to be a brand universally respected on the level that Toyota is. But it is possible.



Do you remember when Toyota and Honda made junk cars in the US and their reputation was in line with that? Now look at them. Clearly it can be done, and clearly it was quite some time.



Go to Leftlanenews, Autoblog, autobloggreen, etc and read the press releases about Ford products, GM, and Japanese. Notice the trends of positive and negative thoughts. Then use the search function and read the stories from a year ago.



The difference is black and white. People are already starting to see it... but it's just the tip of the iceberg :spot

^ agreed. even if the American cars are deemed to be 'better' than the Japanese cars, it's already too late to change the perception of the general population due to the absolute crap vehicles they put out for way too long.

Apparently not if your user name means what I think it does :rofl



Kidding aside, I don't agree that it is "too late." Is it too late to have instant acceptance even if their products are better? Of course! In fact, that's my point. But it isn't too late for them to take the long road and earn respect over the next decade.

 

[NSXTASY]

To each his own... :woot: it's the best selling car (or 2nd best, depending on month or source) in all of Europe. It's going to be the most gas efficient pure gas car in the class, and the best "driver's car" too.



It got 5 stars from Jeremy Clarkson. He flat said he loves the car and thinks it is a great looking and performing vehicle.

So......still not sexy. Shamwow sells well apparently.



Considering your bias I guess it would be a "beer goggle" effect.

 

[Lumadar]

So......still not sexy. Shamwow sells well apparently.



Considering your bias I guess it would be a "beer goggle" effect.

You're welcome to your opinion... not sure why you feel the need to be negative repeatedly in my thread though :nixweiss When I see a thread about someone's car I don't like I just hit the "Back" button... :dance

 

[Lenny]

American compact cars are a joke. At least with Honda, the Civic has been around forever.



... I'll take the rock solid reliability of a Civic SI (as well as the resell) any day.

Office of Defects Investigation (ODI), National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHSTA), on the Honda Civic "rock solid reliability":



NHTSA ODI - Complaints



there are a few duplicate entries, but enjoy.

 

[imported_weekendwarrior]

Len, I looked at the link you provided, and I would hardly classify that as a "black eye" to the Civic. There were a total of 15 complaints (several duplicates), and some were very strange. For instance, one was about tires seperating at 24,000 miles. Every new car I have had came with a brochure in the glove box regarding the tire warranty (from the tire company, not the manufacturer). For there to only be 15 listings (how many 2009 Civics were sold?), to me looks pretty good.



Pull the same report for the Cobalt, Focus, whatever the current Saturn compact is, Caliber, and other American models. I'd be curious to see the comparison.



Obviously no car is perfect, and I am not saying that. I am however stating that historically, the Japanese compacts and subcompacts have held up better, and have been more reliable than the American counterparts. If I was buying a new compact or subcompact car now, with the intention of keeping it for 10 plus years, it wouldn't be one of the current American offerings.

 

[imported_weekendwarrior]

[quote name='Lumadar']They are pointing to initial quality because they know that A.) They went through a period of dismal quality, and B.) They realize they have changed and things are improving. But to discount initial quality by saying that all it reflects is initial quality is wrong.

I guess this is where we will have to agree to disagree. I believe you can't assume that since the initial quality is good, that the long term quality will be good. For instance, I have owned several cars (American and foreign) that have been very tight, and very reliable for the first 2 to 3 years. After that, rattles cropped up, interior parts/materials started failing, and a few other issues came to light. High initial quality tells me that the manufacturer's workmanship and materials are good enough to at least hold up for a couple of years. Until I see high long term quality reports, I will not assume that since the short term is good that the long term quality is going to be good.



[quote name='Lumadar']I would place more importance in the brand name and recognition than the model... people rarely buy the same model several times, especially on entry level cars like the Civic, Fiesta, or Corolla. But I could see them sticking with a brand name... you have a point there.

You are right, there probably aren't a lot of people that buy Civic after Civic, but I personally know young people that buy a Civic as their first car, because their dad had a Civic 20 years ago, and it was a good car, or because their older sibling had one 10 years ago, and it was a good car. My point about names was how many first time car buyers right now would go buy a Cobalt, Focus, Caliber, etc... because of a good experience someone close to them had with one 10 or 20 years ag0? - the answer is NONE, because the names weren't around back then. It is stupid to some degree, because a 2009 Civic is nothing like a 1989 Civic, just like how a 2009 Cobalt is nothing like a 1989 Cavallier, and a 2009 Focus is not like a 1989 Escort. But this is how marketing and consumer loyalt works...people often base purchases on life experiences, and I personally feel this is where the Japanese have the advantage with compacts and subcompacts, because they have built a good history with these same nameplates over the last 20 years.



Anyway, enjoy driving the Fiesta and writing the articles...and congrats on the opportunity. If you are a Ford guy, I am sure you are thrilled to have been chosen. You never know...this may lead to you making some great contacts at Ford, and the opportunity for you to get a marketing job with them or something (if that's something you may be interested in).

 

[David Fermani]

The Honda Fit styling blows that thing out of the water. There are still connotations of low quality and lame styling with the Fiesta name IMO. What sells well in Europe doesn't mean much in the states...

I like the car, but think it's really pathetic that it's riddled with that many holograms. Because of Lumadar's relationship with Ford, he needs to address this quality problem with them. The people responsible for this lack of intelligence need some serious training. I've inspected 1000's of Fords and this one is at the top of the list for negligible buffer trails. Again, congratulations of the Fiesta, I’m sure you’ll correct the paint effortlessly with some “Meguiar’s love�.

 

[Lumadar]

I like the car, but think it's really pathetic that it's riddled with that many holograms. Because of Lumadar's relationship with Ford, he needs to address this quality problem with them. The people responsible for this lack of intelligence need some serious training. I've inspected 1000's of Fords and this one is at the top of the list for negligible buffer trails. Again, congratulations of the Fiesta, I’m sure you’ll correct the paint effortlessly with some “Meguiar’s love�.

It isn't "Ford" that did it. The car was given "special" treatment by the shop that installed the decals. The car even has some dried on polish in places... :lol



The paint job itself is actually very high quality... better than any Ford I have had. Once I get it cleaned up I'll make sure to show that off :getdown

 

[David Fermani]

How sure are you that they buffed it? Ford leaves polish in the cracks too. OTOH, Ford usually spot buffs where your car looks like the whole hood was buffed.

 

[Lumadar]

How sure are you that they buffed it? Ford leaves polish in the cracks too. OTOH, Ford usually spot buffs where your car looks like the whole hood was buffed.

Because I directly talked to the guys that prepped the car :grinno:



I worked at a Ford dealership in the detailing department and I can honestly say in a year I never once found polish on the cars (As they arrived). That said, I know that all manufacturers do some spot buffing at the factory, but it isn't every car.



In this case the vehicles were prepped by the company that installed the decals, and they also waxed the cars too (and he told me they gave them a dust treatment with the duster lol).

 

[kenwowski]

Lumadar, after reading through this thread I have to say I wholeheartedly agree with your statements about Ford. In fact, I can't tell you how much I respect you for coming on this site and sharing your views in detail and offering intelligent debate when replying to other members. Too many individuals are quick to point out Ford's past mistakes without recognizing the company's remarkable acomplishments. While everyone is entitled to drive what they want, Ford's 2010 product lineup is going to be hard to ignore. I encourage you to keep spreading the word. Enjoy assisting in the product launch of the new Fiesta.

 

[Lenny]

Len, I looked at the link you provided, and I would hardly classify that as a "black eye" to the Civic. There were a total of 15 complaints (several duplicates), and some were very strange. For instance, one was about tires seperating at 24,000 miles. Every new car I have had came with a brochure in the glove box regarding the tire warranty (from the tire company, not the manufacturer). For there to only be 15 listings (how many 2009 Civics were sold?), to me looks pretty good.



Pull the same report for the Cobalt, Focus, whatever the current Saturn compact is, Caliber, and other American models. I'd be curious to see the comparison.



Obviously no car is perfect, and I am not saying that. I am however stating that historically, the Japanese compacts and subcompacts have held up better, and have been more reliable than the American counterparts. If I was buying a new compact or subcompact car now, with the intention of keeping it for 10 plus years, it wouldn't be one of the current American offerings.

David, be very, very careful about what you ask for - LOL. Links are below, but the news for you Honda fans is there were two whole complaints on the 2009 Focus, two complaints on the 2009 Chevy Cobalt, with two more listed complaints on the 2009 Cobalt SS, one from the same person as the regular Cobalt. Three complaints ont eh Caliber. And this is from a source that is not as questionable as Consumer Reports - this is NHTSA.



2009 Ford Focus: NHTSA ODI - Complaints 2009 Focus



2009 Chevrolet Cobalt: NHTSA ODI - Complaints 2009 Cobalt



2009 Chevrolet Cobalt SS (one duplicate complaint from above): NHTSA ODI - Complaints 2009 Cobalt SS



2009 Dodge Caliber: NHTSA ODI - Complaints 2009 Dodge Caliber



Only complaints NHTSA has on 2009 Saturn is on the midsize Aura.



Historically, the fact is that Ford's quality has been improving every single year for the last decade, while the Japanese car makers quality has in some cases dropped (loads of serious complaints on Toyota) or remained the same, with some serious problems (Honda, as much on Civic as on Accord).

 

[kenwowski]

Nowadays its seems Ford is relentless in its pursuit of building even longer lasting and better built vehicles whereas toyota and honda have become complacent and lost focus of their core customer bases

 

[Lenny]

Nowadays its seems Ford is relentless in its pursuit of building even longer lasting and better built vehicles whereas toyota and honda have become complacent and lost focus of their core customer basses

Four years ago, when all the complaints came out about the Toyota engine sludge problems and the automatic transmission problems in both the Camry and the Avalon, and the large number of complaints my wife found on NHTSA's web site on various Honda models, I wondered what was going on with these two. I'm not sure on Honda, but Toyota's own executives in Japan, especially members of the founding Toyoda family, said that Toyota was too focused on expanding too fast, and on trying to go from concept to production too fast, without enough prototyping and testing. I think they, and Honda, are going to regret that they went on such an expansion kick.



Ford has come interesting cars coming out soon - this Fiesta is one, the 2010 Taurus is another. I'm looking forward to the rest of the line up coming out in 2012 and 2013 from Ford.

 

[imported_weekendwarrior]

David, be very, very careful about what you ask for - LOL. Links are below, but the news for you Honda fans is there were two whole complaints on the 2009 Focus, two complaints on the 2009 Chevy Cobalt, with two more listed complaints on the 2009 Cobalt SS, one from the same person as the regular Cobalt. Three complaints ont eh Caliber. And this is from a source that is not as questionable as Consumer Reports - this is NHTSA.



2009 Ford Focus: NHTSA ODI - Complaints 2009 Focus



2009 Chevrolet Cobalt: NHTSA ODI - Complaints 2009 Cobalt



2009 Chevrolet Cobalt SS (one duplicate complaint from above): NHTSA ODI - Complaints 2009 Cobalt SS



2009 Dodge Caliber: NHTSA ODI - Complaints 2009 Dodge Caliber



Only complaints NHTSA has on 2009 Saturn is on the midsize Aura.



Historically, the fact is that Ford's quality has been improving every single year for the last decade, while the Japanese car makers quality has in some cases dropped (loads of serious complaints on Toyota) or remained the same, with some serious problems (Honda, as much on Civic as on Accord).

I tend to use sources such as Edmunds, as well as real life experiences to make decisions. If you look at this link (hopefully it will work):



Comparator - Pricing



It compares the true cost of ownership for a Civic, Corolla, Focus, Cobalt, and Caliber. At the end of the 5 year run, the Civic is the cheapest to own...and I would argue that it and the Corolla will be in much better shape than the American options. I see you are in the Detroit area, and I know you want to see the local boys succeed, but I am not going to buy what I feel is a lesser product, just to support the "American" brand. By the way, what is an American car? A Camaro built in Canada, or a Camry built in the US?

 

[Lenny]

I tend to use sources such as Edmunds, as well as real life experiences to make decisions. If you look at this link (hopefully it will work):



Comparator - Pricing



It compares the true cost of ownership for a Civic, Corolla, Focus, Cobalt, and Caliber. At the end of the 5 year run, the Civic is the cheapest to own...and I would argue that it and the Corolla will be in much better shape than the American options. I see you are in the Detroit area, and I know you want to see the local boys succeed, but I am not going to buy what I feel is a lesser product, just to support the "American" brand. By the way, what is an American car? A Camaro built in Canada, or a Camry built in the US?

Look, you asked. NHTSA's data is NHTSA's data. And considering that every car I've owned has gone well past five years, as have my wife's and my parents, and all of them have been American, as in Detroit (deal with it) and all Ford products, all of them have been in great shape after five years. You can argue in favor of the Corolla and the Civic all you want, all it shows is that you favor something not built by the Detroit automakers. You have zero sound reason for it. My being in Detroit is a non issue, and your pointing it out isn't relevant to the discussion. My sister-in-law, in Texas, has a six year Camry. Mechanically it's in good shape, but it has paint peeling off the back bumper and it's never been in a collision, so where's the quality? My cousin, in Missouri, has a Nissan Maxima, about ten years old, also in good shape mechanically. Body integrity, however, is no better than any Detroit brand after ten years of commercial car washes and zero detailing. The paint finish sucks, the rear quarter panels have rust perforation right into the trunk at their lowest edges. My Dad has an eleven year old Escort wagon that has gone through ten years of Michigan winters with road salt and it doesn't have a lick of rust on it. My cousin's wife bought a Honda Accord in 2005, same model year as my Mercury. I have had zero warranty repairs on my Montego, while she's had her Accord in for air bar sensor failure (warning light), air bag recall, fuel pump failure (stranded her at work after a thirty hour shift - she's a doctor in a hospital) and headlight circuit failure. And all of the 2005 exterior lighting recalls on all the Honda's are on parts that are Honda USA vendors who are in that fifty percent of Honda suppliers that do NOT supply GM, Ford, or Chrysler.



My wife's cousin has a six year old Toyota Corolla. If she hadn't taken an extended warranty, she would have been on the hook for $3500 in electrical repairs when it was four and a half years old, with 65,000 miles at the time.



And you want to believe that a Toyota or Honda will be in better shape, than a GM, Ford, or Chrysler, after five years? Based on what? Edmund's, or Consumer's Reports? Please, give me a break.

 

[bwlucas]

The fiesta is pretty nice. A buddy from Ford here in Detroit had one just off the truck from Europe for me to check out. Looked great in white, still not the car for me.



When this baby hits the US shores, then I'll be considering Ford again.

 

[SpoiledMan]

Office of Defects Investigation (ODI), National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHSTA), on the Honda Civic "rock solid reliability":



NHTSA ODI - Complaints



there are a few duplicate entries, but enjoy.

Honestly, did you read some of those complaints? There's a complaint about the position of the headrest. Did she drive the car before she bought it??

 

[Lenny]

Honestly, did you read some of those complaints? There's a complaint about the position of the headrest. Did she drive the car before she bought it??

You do have to wonder about some car buyers.

 

[SpoiledMan]

I'll also add this. When someone is conditioned to things having defects they tend to not complain about those defects. When I have issues with my cars, I complain and get them taken care of. My father didn't find any of the dozen or so issues he had with his Escalade as problems. I certainly did. He never complained.



Some may say that Honda quality is going down. It may be in some areas. I have a 2000 Odyssey and a 2008 Odyssey. Night and day difference between the two as the quality of the 08 makes it seem as though it wasn't built by the same company.