Regarding my choice of machine - I had heard about the PC 7424 for years as though it was a gold standard of sorts, so when I finally purchased one, I went with that just to see what the fuss is about. At some point I will upgrade but for now this will last me for a while. A bit apprehensive about using a rotary until my skill improves.
Still getting holograms despite careful washing. Frustrated
- Thread starter Bill1975
- Start date
When you are checking your work use ipa or a panel wipe product like carpro eraser, gyeon prep, gtechnic panel wipe. A Good one that is versitale and can be used at prep dilution waterless wash or rinseless wash and other dilutions is McKees 37 N-914. Useing ONR I think is okey when useing other Optimum products in synergy. Otherwise it`s ad glossenhancer when you check your work and can maybe be decieving.
As for a compound and polish I would test Sonax Cutmax and Sonax es04-06 polish or Sonax Perfect Finish. They have a one step also Sonax Cut and Finish. Then get a mf cutting pads of choice and thin pro pads or griots boss pads that also is thin. This makes your polisher very effective. If you need to go go really heavy compounding I would recommend this lake country thin wool pad. Then do test spot to see the perfect combo for the situation. It`s hard to get the paint flawless to the deeper defects. And for the most it`s only you that see it and know it`s there. So take a couple of steps back and look at the paint in the sun from a standing point of view. That is what others sees your car at and not close up with the perfect lighting.
https://www.autopia-carcare.com/thin-wool-pads.html#.WohfW_xwE1I
It`s hard to determind when a mf towel is done. You will be trust your instinct and feel when inspecting the mf towels. A good way is also to use the same pressure and aggitate cd disc and see if it marring it.
As for a compound and polish I would test Sonax Cutmax and Sonax es04-06 polish or Sonax Perfect Finish. They have a one step also Sonax Cut and Finish. Then get a mf cutting pads of choice and thin pro pads or griots boss pads that also is thin. This makes your polisher very effective. If you need to go go really heavy compounding I would recommend this lake country thin wool pad. Then do test spot to see the perfect combo for the situation. It`s hard to get the paint flawless to the deeper defects. And for the most it`s only you that see it and know it`s there. So take a couple of steps back and look at the paint in the sun from a standing point of view. That is what others sees your car at and not close up with the perfect lighting.
https://www.autopia-carcare.com/thin-wool-pads.html#.WohfW_xwE1I
It`s hard to determind when a mf towel is done. You will be trust your instinct and feel when inspecting the mf towels. A good way is also to use the same pressure and aggitate cd disc and see if it marring it.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Bill1975- I`m surprised that you bought M205 after having those issues; the Trade Secret Oils in it render that stuff unbearable for me, won`t *EVER* struggle with any product like that again in this lifetime.
There are so many products out there, it`s overwhelming. I`m still at the stage where I`m figuring out what works best for me. The optimum works OK, and the 205 seems to be a popular product, thus I thought I would give it a try.
I was considering some Menzerna products as well. But I`m always open to suggestions.
Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk
Accumulator
Well-known member
Indeed! and, uhm...everybody`s fave is the best
Heh heh, and *none* of those were/are to my liking! Not that *I* know what`s best for you either.
I was just thinking that with oils/etc. having been an issue, you might want to go with something were that kind of thing isn`t much of a factor. Eh, it`s just one of my pet peeves; once I finish doing the correction, I want to know that it really is finished and I don`t want to [mess] around with residual artifacts like oils. That`s what sold me on HD Polish, but I haven`t tried the Polish + and IIRC that`s the version they`re selling now.
Just FWIW, I`m kinda leaning towards the Griot`s Boss products for my next go-around.
Bumping this back up to report that M205 seems like a waste of money for me. Again, even after the last round of careful polishing and washing, I`m seeing some light holograms. 4 - 5 passes with a PC set on 6, an orange LC pad and M205 did little to nothing.
Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk
Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk
I polish an area for 10-15 minutes with a light blue foam pad at 800-1100 RPM w/o adding any more polish during this time and only then are all the marks gone.
Since the radio is on I listen to 3 to 4 songs w/o adding more polish and afterwards I clean it all off with CarPro Eraser and see if I need to repeat the process.
Four to five passes with M105 doesn`t do anything on my car either.
ks
jrock645
New member
Wow, I’ve never needed to polish for anywhere near that long!
Accumulator
Well-known member
Bill1975- This must be getting awfully frustrating! Hope it doesn`t get to the point where you just say "forget it!" (or a less polite version 
) and either get rid of the car or quit trying to have its appearance please you.
Eh, dunno if I`m being of any real help here, but anyhow, some sorta-random thoughts follow:
-This is from *washing*, right? You`ve narrowed it down to that..panels OK, wash car, panels no longer OK..you`re calling the issue "holograms", but I consider those to be a uniquely *rotary-induced* phenomenon
-I find it incredibly frustrating to do any real correction with a PC, but mine are the old ones that never did much of anything unless fitted with 3-4" pads
-While others have done correction with M205 (hi, Kevin!), I only found it OK as a genuine Finishing Polish, something to use after something *else* has done all the visible correction
And for the umpteenth time, since we are saying "holograms", while some folks are apparently born Rotary-Meisters, IMO most non-pros will never do enough correction to truly master hologram-free finishing out with a rotary. I`ve used mine for countless hours over *decades*, and despite not being the dullest knife in the drawer by any measure, I can`t do it reliably enough to even bother with those machines any more. And I`ve seen so many "hologram-free" finishes that weren`t under the right inspection conditions...
But eh, that gets us right back to "What`s really causing those things?!?"
) and either get rid of the car or quit trying to have its appearance please you.Eh, dunno if I`m being of any real help here, but anyhow, some sorta-random thoughts follow:
-This is from *washing*, right? You`ve narrowed it down to that..panels OK, wash car, panels no longer OK..you`re calling the issue "holograms", but I consider those to be a uniquely *rotary-induced* phenomenon
-I find it incredibly frustrating to do any real correction with a PC, but mine are the old ones that never did much of anything unless fitted with 3-4" pads
-While others have done correction with M205 (hi, Kevin!), I only found it OK as a genuine Finishing Polish, something to use after something *else* has done all the visible correction
And for the umpteenth time, since we are saying "holograms", while some folks are apparently born Rotary-Meisters, IMO most non-pros will never do enough correction to truly master hologram-free finishing out with a rotary. I`ve used mine for countless hours over *decades*, and despite not being the dullest knife in the drawer by any measure, I can`t do it reliably enough to even bother with those machines any more. And I`ve seen so many "hologram-free" finishes that weren`t under the right inspection conditions...
But eh, that gets us right back to "What`s really causing those things?!?"
Desertnate
Active member
The creation of the marks may be a mystery, but I`d put in a vote for the M205 not really working well on your GTI`s hard paint.
I have a black MK6 GTI and the paint is pretty hard, but I have been able to polish out all but the worst marks, but I had to use something more aggressive than a finishing polish . I use my crude, but trusty Harbor Freight DA along with 5" LC pads. The LC white Flat or Thin Pro pads paired with a swirl remover/mild compound would knock out wash induced swirls and finish down LSP ready. I also tried a finishing polish on the stronger orange pads, but it wouldn`t cut as well or as fast.
Sadly the product I`ve used aren`t produced anymore and I`m now in the process of trying out others to see what will work the best.
Thanks everyone. I think this was the most frustrating wash/detail yet.
There were a couple panels that were previously marred, and my intention was to just polish those few panels, but when I discovered holograms on the panels I previously corrected in post 10, I was rather aggravated.
I hadn`t noticed any marring in those panels until today when I washed the car. The same two bucket method I outlined in the OP. It had been a month since I washed the car and it was quite dirty, so all I can think of is that despite taking great care, the car was dirty enough to where some of that dirt scratched the paint during the wash process.
Moreover, I bought all new MF towels. I used Cobra 530 towels an Griots wax removal mf towels.
I previously had good success with Optimum Polish. The M205 was just frustrating to work with. I thought I got somewhere, but after doing a panel wipe with CQuartz and a mf towel it looked worse!!! So I polished again and it was better but not by much.
For a while I could`ve sworn the paint cleaner and towels were marring the paint, but like I said all my mf towels are brand new.
For the past 3-4 weeks since the last time I washed the car, I`ve Inspected those panels almost daily. In the mean time the car got rained on and a bit dirty, however today was my first opportunity to wash the car.
I noticed it after the car was washed, when I got it in the garage with the LED lights. I have no other idea how they got there. A buffer didn`t touch the paint until after I noticed it.
Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk
The Guz
Mike
Have you tried using a more aggressive product such as a compound to see if in fact the paint is on the hard side? If not then you could possibly be dealing with soft finicky paint that M205 will not do a good job at finishing out.
I have some compound, but that might be overkill. Plus it gets really dusty. (Another complaint with the 205 as well)
VW paint is pretty hard. I had better luck with Optimum, so I might try that again,or research something else.
What`s really frustrating me is the reemergence of holograms on the same panel I very carefully washed and polished on two separate occasions. The issue with the M205 just caused me more annoyance,but at least that is easily solved by buying something else.
Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk
VW paint is pretty hard. I had better luck with Optimum, so I might try that again,or research something else.
What`s really frustrating me is the reemergence of holograms on the same panel I very carefully washed and polished on two separate occasions. The issue with the M205 just caused me more annoyance,but at least that is easily solved by buying something else.
Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk
jrock645
New member
THe Menzerna polishes were developed for hard German paints. Might be worth a look. But, if you have experience with optimum and wanna go that route, that makes sense too.
jrock645
New member
Agreed. Dunno why they keep doing that.
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
Bill1975--
I have said a lot on the subject already..
I never let any product - compound of any level of cut - polish of any level of polishing - dry out when I use it..
If you are using any product and it dries to dust, that is not enough time for it to work long enough.. I also hate that dust flying all over everywhere that has to now be removed..
For example, Meguiars 105 - an excellent heavy duty compound dries up almost instantly and wants to make a big mess that is hard to remove..
If I just start out with a primed pad that is a little moist from a spray of water, pad conditioner, and then perhaps stop and spray the area if it starts to dry out too fast, that compound can correct the heck out out of anything and actually finish down really good..
It is the only thing I ever use on scratched to heck headlights and tail lights, and they all come out beautiful - if you keep the surface moist so the product can do its work and break down to almost nothing ...
The few GTI`s that I have Detailed all had hard paint.. Hard paint needs the right product to be able to correct it, or more time, with another product to possibly correct it..
All German cars have hard paint except for the Jet Blacks of the world.. And some Jet Blacks are harder than others.. BMW in my experiences has the softest Jet Black..
Detailing will Always be having to adjust everything to that particular vehicle`s paint on that panel, that day.. It will Never be a series of time worn steps that always work without fail.. There is no such thing as - "so many "passes" will be enough to make it perfect each time.. You have to be looking at it while you`re working on it and evaluating the results as they happen, and adjust that time on it to go longer, shorter, etc...
If I was in Texas I would be happy to come up with my tools and help you out..
Dan F
I have said a lot on the subject already..
I never let any product - compound of any level of cut - polish of any level of polishing - dry out when I use it..
If you are using any product and it dries to dust, that is not enough time for it to work long enough.. I also hate that dust flying all over everywhere that has to now be removed..
For example, Meguiars 105 - an excellent heavy duty compound dries up almost instantly and wants to make a big mess that is hard to remove..
If I just start out with a primed pad that is a little moist from a spray of water, pad conditioner, and then perhaps stop and spray the area if it starts to dry out too fast, that compound can correct the heck out out of anything and actually finish down really good..
It is the only thing I ever use on scratched to heck headlights and tail lights, and they all come out beautiful - if you keep the surface moist so the product can do its work and break down to almost nothing ...
The few GTI`s that I have Detailed all had hard paint.. Hard paint needs the right product to be able to correct it, or more time, with another product to possibly correct it..
All German cars have hard paint except for the Jet Blacks of the world.. And some Jet Blacks are harder than others.. BMW in my experiences has the softest Jet Black..
Detailing will Always be having to adjust everything to that particular vehicle`s paint on that panel, that day.. It will Never be a series of time worn steps that always work without fail.. There is no such thing as - "so many "passes" will be enough to make it perfect each time.. You have to be looking at it while you`re working on it and evaluating the results as they happen, and adjust that time on it to go longer, shorter, etc...
If I was in Texas I would be happy to come up with my tools and help you out..
Dan F
Dan - Thank you. As I have only used a polisher a handful of times, and until now, only with one product, I expect using any new product means the results will vary, and I just have to be able to adjust things. I did have better results with the Optimum polish I used before, so in this case I don`t think the M205 is worth the effort or frustration. And I`m happy to try different products and techniques.
What really frustrates me is the reemergence of holograms, albeit light ones after careful washing and polishing. As I said before, the only thing I can think of is that the car is sufficiently dirty that they are happening regardless of how carefully I wash and dry. VW paint may be hard to correct but it seems easy to scratch!
What really frustrates me is the reemergence of holograms, albeit light ones after careful washing and polishing. As I said before, the only thing I can think of is that the car is sufficiently dirty that they are happening regardless of how carefully I wash and dry. VW paint may be hard to correct but it seems easy to scratch!