Soap Suds Myth

very nicely written PC. What has not been distinguished here is bubbles/suds from lather (which I think are totally different).



I would agree that bubbles are useless for cleaning purposes (of any kind) and yes they seem to be a by product of the soap/water mixture with too much air. Lather (suds if you like) are the intended result of using any type of soap and IMHO is what make the soap work more smoothly and efficently.



When I was at Parris Island they gave us these "bricks" of soap to take a Salt water shower with and it was like rubbing sand paper against your skin.



But the point of that excerise was to learn what it felt like to take a "Navy Shower" with Salt Water, which would only happen if they didn't have enough fresh water for bathing while we were at sea.



Which brings me, rather nicely, to Car Washes like QEW and the like. It takes more water to rinse away the suds/lather and if your short on water in the first place what's the point of the product?



So they are made differently in that they are not supposed to produce suds.



Sudsy water for me keeps the mitt "gliding" across the panels removing the dirt without any need for effort on my part and yes I use a foamer in combo with the two bucket method. Can't be too careful with Black Paint.
 
doged said:
Interesting how decades of marketing hype make people believe in myths. Remember the world use to be flat and the moon was made of cheese :LOLOL
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Why did you even bother posting this? Just so you could argue with everyone?
 
doged said:
No offence but the foam gun is a toy. It’s a delivery system for sudsy soap and nothing more. If the toy works for you then please, play with it. Who am I to tell senior members that Santa Claus is A fictional character . This is really amusing!!!
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A toy?! :rofl :rofl Oh Bill D? Oh Accumulator? Where art thou? Give doged your feelings on the foam gun.







Danase said:
Why did you even bother posting this? Just so you could argue with everyone?
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Honestly...You're not enlightening anyone here other than saying foam is a marketing hype. Yes, I agree, I don't buy washes by the sud content, but rather for their slickness and cleaning ability. However, by using the foam gun, you are maximizing the effectiveness of your soapy solution.
 
Danase said:
Why did you even bother posting this? Just so you could argue with everyone?
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No, I wouldn’t do that. Concerning the suds, I quote, “Procter & Gamble�, the industry experts. Please feel free to email them. You may find out they are the ones who put the suds in soap. I’m sorry to be the one to burst the bubble.
 
I found this quote here : "Back when laundry was done with soap flakes, suds level was an indicator of cleaning performance. So, many people today think that a good rich level of suds is necessary for clean laundry. However, this is no longer true. Today's detergents are formulated to have any suds level desired without affecting cleaning performance. "



Which I still think is a different issue as to how/whether a foam gun works, by increasing the hang time of the detergent as well as buffering the mitt contact with the entrained air.
 
doged said:
No offence but the foam gun is a toy. It’s a delivery system for sudsy soap and nothing more. If the toy works for you then please, play with it. Who am I to tell senior members that Santa Claus is A fictional character . This is really amusing!!!
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GSRstilez said:
A toy?! :rofl :rofl Oh Bill D? Oh Accumulator? Where art thou? Give doged your feelings on the foam gun.
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I'll second Sean, :rofl A foam gun is a toy, eh? :chuckle:. Well, I can't be accused not liking my toys. The lure of the foam gun is pretty simple and has already been explained here:



It's a device that keeps a constant stream of soapy mix over the finish. As a matter of fact, try using one with a flat hose and/or lower water pressure which cuts the amount of foam and suds, it's still effective because it still produces the soap mixture. Try doing that with a wash bucket alone.



Whichever method, the old fashioned wash bucket or foam gun, use what you like but the foam gun, "toy," is a damn good tool in any detailer's arsenal.
 
doged said:
No, I wouldn’t do that. Concerning the suds, I quote, “Procter & Gamble�, the industry experts. Please feel free to email them. You may find out they are the ones who put the suds in soap. I’m sorry to be the one to burst the bubble.
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Procter and Gamble make my CAR soap? I could of sworn they were household products. Unless of course you wash your car with Tide?
 
And since I LOVE to prove know-it-alls wrong, especially with their own information...

Here is a little info. from you Proter and Gamble website.

HAIR FACTS

.

The principles of surfactants

.

All surfactants have the following features:

.

* They make the removal of dirt easier by reducing the surface tension between the water and the greasy matter on the hair.

* They produce foam (lather). The foam holds the bits of dirt in it, and stops them from being re-deposited on the hair.

* They stabilise the shampoo mixture, and hold the other ingredients in solution.

* They thicken the shampoo and make it easier to use
 
Danase said:
And since I LOVE to prove know-it-alls wrong, especially with their own information...

Here is a little info. from you Proter and Gamble website.

HAIR FACTS

.

The principles of surfactants

.

All surfactants have the following features:

.

* They make the removal of dirt easier by reducing the surface tension between the water and the greasy matter on the hair.

* They produce foam (lather). The foam holds the bits of dirt in it, and stops them from being re-deposited on the hair.

* They stabilise the shampoo mixture, and hold the other ingredients in solution.

* They thicken the shampoo and make it easier to use
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YOU DA MAN :2thumbs:
 
3Dog said:
YOU DA MAN :2thumbs:
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We have conflicting information from the same source. It happens all the time and I’m not a know it all, just someone that in search of the truth. In my opinion people believe what they want to believe. I don’t see the value in a foam gun at a professional level.
 
doged said:
We have conflicting information from the same source. It happens all the time and I’m not a know it all, just someone that in search of the truth. In my opinion people believe what they want to believe. I don’t see the value in a foam gun at a professional level.
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I don't believe what I want to. I believe in the facts and truth. Just because ONE source told you something doesn't mean it is so. Search SEVERAL sources and do some research and you will find the FACTS.
 
Danase said:
I don't believe what I want to. I believe in the facts and truth. Just because ONE source told you something doesn't mean it is so. Search SEVERAL sources and do some research and you will find the FACTS.
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Furthermore, you have to realize that P&G is a large corporation, one which does not produce a foam gun, nor a cleaning product for vehicles. You are conversing on un-biased boards here with people who work in the industry with these tools all the time.



You obvsiouly haven't been here long enough/done enough reading to realize that you have to have an open-mind in detailing. People look like idiots knocking products and processes, but when they try them, and it works out for them, the jokes on them.





Don't knock it til ya try it :tribe:
 
Hey guys, we can all be friends here. According to this page "Suds are not an indication of the cleaning ability of a washing product. " Ok, so, as has been mentioned, you can have a good cleaner that is low-sudsing. That isn't mutually exclusive from suds having other positive effects on certain processes.
 
GSRstilez said:
Furthermore, you have to realize that P&G is a large corporation, one which does not produce a foam gun, nor a cleaning product for vehicles. You are conversing on un-biased boards here with people who work in the industry with these tools all the time.



You obvsiouly haven't been here long enough/done enough reading to realize that you have to have an open-mind in detailing. People look like idiots knocking products and processes, but when they try them, and it works out for them, the jokes on them.





Don't knock it til ya try it :tribe:
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Ok, please help me answer this question on a professional level?

If I am having no problems with washing cars and getting them perfectly clean without a foam gun then why should I use one? The foam is going to be harder to rinse off and we will need more time and water to do so. This doesn’t seem to be efficient on a business or environment level. Please help me understand !!!
 
doged said:
Ok, please help me answer this question on a professional level?

If I am having no problems with washing cars and getting them perfectly clean without a foam gun then why should I use one? The foam is going to be harder to rinse off and we will need more time and water to do so. This doesn’t seem to be efficient on a business or environment level. Please help me understand !!!
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Ugh! There are more than one way to do things! If you are having a fine time doing it your way than continue to do it that way. Nobody is forcing you to try a foam gun, just trying to get you to understand why people use them. I for one don't use one but like a wash with lots of suds just because of the facts I posted earlier. Some people just like having the security of using a foam gun to cut down on the POSSIBILITY of marring. Hell, my barber might be able to use his clippers without a guard on them just fine too but dammit I don't care how good he is I want to see a guard on them things because if I hear him say, "Woops!" and see half my head is bald I won't be happy.
 
doged - I think the idea here is not that a foam gun gets the car cleaner, it's that it gets the car cleaner and helps mitigate marring inflicted on the paint during the wash process. If you can wash cars without a foam gun and never produce any marring that's awesome. There are quite a few long time members here who use foam guns because they feel (through experience) that it produces better results (less marring). I don't know a thing about soap, but I've washed enough cars to know that I agree with them. Then again maybe I'm just a monkey who doesn't know how to wash cars. :)



Cheers.
 
That is correct. There are plenty of threads on this forum discussing enhanced reduction of marring by using a foam gun. Now, if this professional environment entails polishing an already marred car after the wash, especially where the speed in which the job is completed is very important,there isn't necessarily a need to go out a buy a foam gun. For those who wash their own car after painstakingly detailing it, eliminating any marring or not having any marring in the first place, it's a good tool.
 
First, the flames need to cool off in this thread. I'm getting complaints!!!



Second, suds do have some purpose in various cleaning solutions. In some solutions, the suds themselves cause a lifting action to separate dirt from the surface being cleaned so the dirt can be washed or wiped away.
 
By the time I composed what I was going to post, it was all covered by other members.



DavidB- Thanks for keeping things civil.



FWIW, I too initially thought the foamgun was a toy, with no functional value. It was only after many washes with it, and a great deal of careful thought, that I was able to develop my current technique for using it and thus find its value: reducing wash-induced marring. If I could wash marring-free without it, I would. It's nice to not have to polish out wash-induced marring every spring after all the nasty stuff that gets on the paint during Ohio winters.
 
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