SIP Acting Funny? PICS

C

Carbon Blue

New member
I finally had an open weekend to detail my own car with my new makita 9227c :) I used the normal 2 stage process of SIP and UF SE. I spread the SIP at 800-900 rpms worked it at about 1200 and then began the polishing at 1500 then slowed back down to 1200 with a white LC pad. At first the pad was skipping all over the place but after a few tries I got the hang of it. When I used my UDM I could work SIP to a complete dust with a slight haze. With the makita it was dusting but it still had that oily residue left on the paint. No matter how long I worked the polish for at 1500 it would not dust as much vs my udm (I didnt want to make more passes for fear of burning through the paint but it was definitely longer than 2-3 mins for a 3x3 area. I pulled the car out into the sun and noticed some very slight buffer trails or light haze left behind.



I then followed up with a grey LC pad with UF SE and used the same speeds as SIP. I got it to finish down pretty well and removed the holgrams/trails (but still left a slight oily residue behind but not as bad as SIP). All pads used in this process were 6.5inches in diameter with about a 4-5inch line of polish down the middle. The weather was at about 57degrees farenheit so Im not too sure if this is a prime example of SIP acting funny or not. Overall im very impressed with the rotary as it corrected much better and faster vs my udm on 4inch pads. The makita at about 1500 actually sounded slow vs the udm at speed 6 plus it vibrated wayyy less than the udm did. The only problem I had was working on vertical surfaces such as the door where the pad would skip all over the place (any tips on this??). I had the speed lock on with my other hand on the head not bail handle of the polisher. I kept it flat at all times and used the polishers weight only. Does my final product look as expected? Does my pic at 1500 look as how its supposed to or should it be more "clear"?



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spreading SIP at 8-900



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Fully spread and worked at 1200



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after a 1500 then burnished back down to about 1000-1200. Should it look like this??



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pulled out into the sun to check my work (After a 50/50 IPA wipe down) very VERY slight buffer trails



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closer shot of the door with slight buffer trails (cleaned up by UF SE on a grey pad later on)



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Front fender received the same treatment as the door
 
Two to three minutes is a *very long* working time for SIP, IMO. I always use SIP with a wool pad, but I only get three (and occasionally four) passes out of it, for about 30 seconds working time. You should get more working time from a foam pad, but even then it sounds like you're overworking the product. Wiith a white LC foam pad, SIP should be finishing down to darn-near LSP ready; no compounding marks, haze, or holograms. If you're getting those symptoms, you're definitely overwoking it. When I first started using SIP, I overworked it quite often, because it just doesn't "clear out" the same way most polishes do when it's done. It still looks kinda milky. You have to go more by the dryness of the product rather than the clarity to determine when SIP is done.



Adding a few drops of 106ff really extends the working time, and gives it more of a traditional "clear" finish. Just don't add very much, because it will rapidly take away SIP's bite. It also lessons SIP's jumpiness.
 
thanks for the input superbee. I was just so used to SIP dusting everywhere that I thought I was "underworking" since it wasnt dusting as much.
 
Anytime, Carbon... I never would have gotten the hang of SIP without the help of Rydawg, TH0001, and a few other guys around here.
 
I work SIP and 106 for up to four and a half minutes with no problems at all

The reason is that I like to go from 1500 to 1600 (depends on paint type) and then go down and burnish at 100 to 200 rpm increments all the way back to 600



Plus the longer you burnish it, the better the gloss is

But for those who don't have the time, 2.5 to 3.5 mins is enough



20 to 60 seconds just ain't enough
 
hey there SVR thanks for your input. Does my pic showing the 1500-1200 burnish look typical of what SIP should looked like after it has been worked/polished? does it still look too milky? should I work the polish longer by the looks of the pic?? My final product seems to look pretty good with very SLIGHT buffer trails.
 
I don't see buffer trails in those pictures? I see some sort of haze in the 5th picture down between the bright spots on the back of the door.
 
Carbon Blue said:
The only problem I had was working on vertical surfaces such as the door where the pad would skip all over the place (any tips on this??). I had the speed lock on with my other hand on the head not bail handle of the polisher.
Click to expand...



I keep one hand on the head (arched up so the back of my hand has tension on the handle) and the other hand (once I lock the trigger) on the "body". I'll usually feel it with my hands in those locations before it starts to jump, i.e. you'll feel it start pulling before it happens.
 
Mindflux said:
I don't see buffer trails in those pictures? I see some sort of haze in the 5th picture down between the bright spots on the back of the door.
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yea I dont know if I could classify them as buffer trails but they appear as very LIGHT hazing. It was very hard to see from different points of angles.
 
Carbon, I really don't mean to start an arguing match between myself and SVR (or between *anyone* here, TBH), but I do have to say a couple things...



There must be a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference in either the SIP sold here and what they get in Australia, or something, because there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY IN the universe's warmest place that I could ever come even close to working SIP for a full sixty seconds, let alone the time that SVR suggests.



The pictures you have posted are *classic* results of overworking your polish. I'm going to ask (with all due respect to SVR), that you go ahead and try the recommendations I gave you in my earlier post, then post your results. Please, just give it a try. Your pictures are classic, and so is the cure.



Again, I don't want to start any type of arguement; if SVR says he can get that much time out of SIP, that's awesome. But I am telling you that what you are seeing *is* the classic results of an overworked polish.



Edit: Save the "burnishing and glossing" that SVR is talking about for your final polishing step, not the SIP.
 
no problem superbee, Iam definitely open to try anything new as Iam looking for newer and better techniques to improve upon my skill. Besides you always learn something new from intellectual arguments and having an open mind to accept them does wonders. On my next detail I will try working SIP again for about 45 seconds to 55 seconds on a white LC pad and see what the results are. I did use UF SE to clean up anything that SIP left over and it DOES WONDERS! I knew it finished wet which was kinda weird but it definitely upped the clarity more than I expected.
 
Hm. I will have to time how long it takes me to break down SIP. I don't think it's ever been 4 minutes, but it does seem like longer than 60 seconds. I'll let you know tomorrow. :)



FWIW, if the pad is skipping then odds are SB is right and you're breaking it down too much.
 
Picus said:
Hm. I will have to time how long it takes me to break down SIP. I don't think it's ever been 4 minutes, but it does seem like longer than 60 seconds. I'll let you know tomorrow. :)



FWIW, if the pad is skipping then odds are SB is right and you're breaking it down too much.
Click to expand...



I use wool with SIP, which (as another very general rule of thumb) seems to knock almost half the working time off of foam. When I do use foam with SIP (not very often), I get just about one minute of working time. This is in my environmental conditions, which includes single-digit humidity most of the time.
 
Carbon, one of the very finest pads you can add to your arsenal is the LC 6.5" Purple Foamed Wool Pad. It has much, much better cut than orange LC foam, runs cooler, and finishes out as well as (and on certain paints better) than your orange LC foam. It uses the same backing plate as what you're using for your LC pads, too. AG also has them in 3.5" size for hard to get to areas.



Foamed Wool 6.5 inch Polishing/Buffing Pad



Once you try this pad, you'll throw your foam cutting pads away. Purple foamed wool and SIP is just a killer combination. Using this pad, you'll probably only get three to four passes out of SIP before it's done. And during that short 30 or so second time, SIP will have done some serious correcting, and will finish down darn near LSP ready on most paints.



Edit: I've had my coffee now, and can't seem to shutup, so...More ranting...Unless the car I'm working on has some really seriously hard paint with bad defects, it's rare that I use anything other than the purple foamed and SIP now. Multiple applications of SIP take about the same as one application of most of my heavy duty compounds (with the exception being of the new M105, which is faster than SIP to use), and it finishes down much better than a real heavy compound does. There's alot of pictures around here of purple foamed/sip, and you just won't believe how well it finishes off. The harder the clear coat, the better this will finish off for you.
 
I find myself exceeding 60 seconds often with SIP...and each time I mad at myself for going that long. I'm with SuperBee that SIP goes FAST...even though it doesn't always seems like it. I think that about 3 passes is all you'll get, because I find it's pretty dry to do a 4th in most cases. If you aren't getting out the defect marks like you want in the 60 seconds, just apply more and go over it again. You'll be happy with the results, and have alot less dust (we all know Menz products are crazy dusty).



I've never tried putting a little 106FF in the SIP. Have to give that a shot.
 
Just got home, timed some sip'age. I was usually working it about 90 seconds, give or take a few seconds. It's more humid here, and I am using foam.
 
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