Rotary Usage

Considering your main issues as you stated are with Buffer marks, swirls, and scratch problems. In order to eliminate (not fill-in) paint defects and/or surface imperfections you need good lighting, clean toweling, clean pads, evaluate the surface, right products for the job, and plenty of patience. If you think in terms of one section or panel at a time, you will be less likely to be in a hurry to go on to the next section. You will actually be going faster taking your time and doing a nice job and solving the problems, instead of going fast and leaving scratches, swirls, undealt with for some later time.



I do a walk around to check for loose trim, emblems, and other items. Taping off lenses, body side moldings, antenna mounts, etc., depending on vehicle.



You can solve a lot of the issues people have with rotary's ahead of time before you even pick-up the buffer.



When it comes to your pads make sure they are balanced on the backing plate properly. Unwanted vibration can create more problems.

I have found that most surface correction can be done between 1000 to 1500 RPM's. I got most of my wet-sanding, compounding, polishing, blends, and scratch and run repair experience by working in the body shop environment. Great classroom for detailers. Some of your products may have speed recommendations on the labeling. If they do not you will be within a safe range as mentioned above. Some of your products are heat activated this is one reason for the recommended speeds; compounds, swirl mark removers, etc. It's nice to hear how it's working for others, but most if not all of your professional detailing chemical company's have thoroughly tested these products, that's how they come up with the recommendations for their use, features, and what pads to use.



Ever since I started detailing, the old standard of the least aggresive pads and products first, applies here too. Man!, If I can get it done with the light stuff first, the less surface has to be leveled, and more time for other things like coffee and pastries.



When applying product I will either put it directly on the pad or lay about an 8" line of product on the surface. Starting from the right side of the line I will draw the product up into the pad, and using front to back motions (natural motion of vehicles) I overlap each pass (which is about two feet) by about 50% evenly and smoothly buffing, keeping the pad as flat to the surface as possible applying the wet product before it starts to dry (I am comfortable with light to medium pressure at first and then I'll ease up at the end of the passes). I've noticed with some products once the product dries it will cause the pad to grab and pull away. Wet buffing by misting and/or product usually solves this problem. On vertical fields smaller pads at lower speeds are easy to manipulate and are effective. As was already mentioned, keep the rotary moving. If it starts to drag mist the pad and/or lay down some more product. Buff wet! a rotary out of control can cause injury to you and the car.



If you want to learn how to use the rotary safely and efficiently learn the products and chemicals you are using and your future applications will be based on experience instead of guess work.



About deeper scratches, if your fingernail will catch in the groove, it will probably need to be repaired. Your better off telling your customer or admitting to yourself whatever the situation, that this needs to be repaired, rather than trying to fix it and penetrating the surface coat exposing the underlying coats.



There are many situations that will arise, some new some old. Paying close attention with your own eyes to what's really on that surface will tell you what the solution is and the actions to take.



Hope this helps you! . . . . :)
 
Anthony Orosco, I make movies (of family) with analog camera, put them into a "movie making" program burn them to DVD and send them to my parents by snail mail. A movie file is too big to e-mail.



Everyone else,

what kind of rotary is everybody using?

make model price and where from?
 
I've been practicing buffing and have also had a professional painter friend of mine teach me some techniques. I am having a hard time with cars that have a lot of hard angles, such as a Jeep Cherokee. This car is nothing but edges! How can you safely buff this type of car without burning some of these edges. It's easy not to burn an edge if you have plenty of room for the trailing edge but what if you have 2 edges only about an inch apart? Help!
 
I haven't viewed any post where people are using a paint gauge. I don't have one yet either, and I haven't buffed an actual customer car, but how can you keep track of how much paint you can safely take off without getting the clearcoat to thin?
 
Quote: And Another Thing!





~One man’s opinion / observations~



Removing (3 Mil - 0.003�) of the paint film surface will cause premature paint system failure and the only way to rectify this would be replacement (re-painting) As a reference point copy paper thickness is 3.5 Mils (0.0035�)



How could you measure 0.003� without a paint gauge?

I would think paint shops would have access to one though



~Hope this helps~





Experience unshared; is knowledge wasted…/



justadumbarchitect * so i question everything*
 
Thanks for the help. That is a good reference point about the copy paper. I have looked at some nice paint gauges but they are pretty expensive. I don't like the magnet ones.
 
They are very pricey and you need one that can measure multiple layers, not just the total thickness since you will be measuring the panel, primer, paint and clear.



I saw a nice digital gauge, it would measure the thickness of up to 4 layers but I THINK it was around 800-1000 bucks. Too much for me.
 
FinishingTouch said:
I've been practicing buffing and have also had a professional painter friend of mine teach me some techniques. I am having a hard time with cars that have a lot of hard angles, such as a Jeep Cherokee. This car is nothing but edges! How can you safely buff this type of car without burning some of these edges. It's easy not to burn an edge if you have plenty of room for the trailing edge but what if you have 2 edges only about an inch apart? Help!
Click to expand...



I was just lurking around and noticed this post and don't believe it was replied to so I'll take a stab at it.



You should first tape off edges and then always buff out to the edge. In other words start from the top of the fender, say on a JEEP front fender, and work your way out to the edge.



You can also buff up to the edge and stop a few inches away from the actual edge and finish it off by hand. If you are going to actually buff on the edge itself then you should feather the trigger as you go along the edge.



Anthony
 
Great thread. I've learned quite a bit about

do's and don'ts when using a rotary. My next

question would be what is a good one to purchase

and where would you get one? Price isn't a big

deal. Looking more for quality and dependability.

Thanks.



The Beer Man:) :D :p
 
~One man’s opinion / observations ~



You mean 0.3 Mil, not 3 Mils, correct? That’s correct, thanks BlackRegal



This is what I use, but there are others just as good (perhaps better, dependant upon individual)



The Makitaâ„¢ 9227 offers an electronic speed control (0-3000 rpm) that maintains a constant speed under varying load conditions. This means you can add a little pressure while working out a paint blemish without having the polisher stall or slow down. The (10 amp) motor works effortlessly for high speed polishing and the entire unit weighs only 6.6 lbs. A large wrap around handle provides excellent two-hand control for working over edges or into tight corners. A spindle lock built into the polisher makes changing pads safe and easy.



Specification:

Electronic adjustable speed control, 0-3,000RM

Power: 120 Volts AC, 50-60Hz/120V VAC

Motor: 10Amp

Speed (constant): 0 – 6,000 RPM

Spindle Thread: 5/8� – 11UNC

Weight: 6.5Lbs





~Hope this helps~



Experience unshared; is knowledge wasted…/



justadumbarchitect *so I question everything*
 
whatnobeer said:
Great thread. I've learned quite a bit about

do's and don'ts when using a rotary. My next

question would be what is a good one to purchase

and where would you get one? Price isn't a big

deal. Looking more for quality and dependability.

Thanks.



The Beer Man:) :D :p
Click to expand...
You really can't go wrong with the popular brands. (Makita, DeWalt, Milwaukee, Porter Cable, etc) They all have their strong points and features but overall they all do basically the same thing. Check some of the forum sponsors as well as eBay for good deals.
 
Great thread! I feel a lot less scared to use my rotary. I've been pretty lucky to have never really messed anything up with it, but can someone tell me what this user did wrong that caused these marks? Is this typical inexperience, a rush job, wrong pad/product, or just plain carelessness that can easily be avoided?

295ViperSwirlsBeforeS2.jpg
 
Swirl marks caused by using too aggressive of a product/pad combination and moving the rotary quickly across the paint. Too many detailers PUSH the buffer and this causes marring because they are moving the buffer faster than it can spin and break down abrasives, hence, swirls.



This can be avoided by first using the least abrasive product/pad combo first and using a slower or lower RPM. The paint doesn't look that bad in the first place so all that should of been done is a rotary with either a polishing or finishing pad and a mild paint cleaner like IP or FP.



Vehicle sides can always be difficult to control the rotary so what I do is break the door up length wise into a top section and a bottom section and then break up the top door section into halfs, the same with the bottom section.



If possible turn up or turn in the side view mirrors, tape off the door handles and trim, including windows, and then work the first half with the rotary with the RPM's set about 1400 to 1200 for polishing and 1100 to 1000 for finishing work. Work in a hatch pattern as much as possible, meaning your first pass is say right to left, then left to right and finish with a diagonal pass. Most products can be worked until all evaporated but I like to do a second pass many times with a "wet" buff. This is when you buff but instead of working the product until all gone you buff a small area with a short pass or two then remove right away.



You know you are moving the buffer too fast if the paint is cool to the touch when done doing an area. If the paint is real hot to the touch then you are moving to slow and/or have the RPM's to high. The paint should be toasty warm to the touch for polishing and finishing.



OK, I am done..........



Anthony
 
Also, practice buffing with your non-dominant arm. It saves you so much time on vertical panels when the torque of the buffer is countering your arms movement.
 
I'm going to take the plunge and pick myself up a DW 849 (and a practice hood! : D ) very soon. I've waded through this thread regarding pads to use but I was hoping someone could give me a few recommendations. Thanks
 
I'm using 6.5" Lake country pads for now and have a rotary backing plate for them. I'm going to try to order a backing plate that can accomodate my PC 6" pads from LC directly, they appear to be the only manufactuer that makes a plate for a rotary for these size pads. I'd really like to be able to use my other exisiting pads with both machines
 
On the horizontal surfaces, it makes it easier to switch hands. If you normally have your right hand on the trigger, left on the handle, then switch.



This will give you more control over the buffer when you buff on vertical surfaces. Also, keep the



Also, if you are getting alot of caking, i.e. after half a hood, something is wrong. Either use more product, a different product or a different pad. The pad should stay clean and shouldn't cake up.



Also, when you buff, think of it as mowing a golfing green. Do a 2 foot by 2 foot section at a time. Keep the buffer moving at a constant speed and use over lapping lanes. Let the buffer do the work, don't press on the buffer until you have had several hours of practice.



At first, you don't have to buff the section clean, you can stop when there is a haze and then wipe it off with a micro-fiber towel. Then move onto the next section. After you get more experience, you can buff the sections clean.
 
Last weekend, I used a rotary buffer on a 4th Generation ('95 - '99) Maxima and wanted to share some things when using a rotary on a 4th Gen or 5th/5.5 Gen Maxima.



4th Gen



a) Tape off the trim above the doors and the weatherstripping

b) Tape off the "Maxima" and the GLE/SE Tags on the trunk

c) Tape off the edge of the headlights, cornering lamps and grille

d) Tape off the weatherstripping around the sunroof (if equipped), windshield, and the rear window.

e) Tape off the edges around the taillights.



This Generation of the Maxima has flat surfaces which means running a rotary will be pretty easy. However, you don't need to run it fast since Nissan's paint is somewhat fragile.



5th/5.5 Gen



This version has the same taping points as the 4th Gen but it has more curves and tighter spaces that you will have to do by hand. If you are going to use a rotary on the 5th Gen, you just run the rotary on the flat surfaces (hood, top, doors, trunk, bumper, spoiler) but the lower valence and underneath the spoiler can be done by hand because that's a very tight space.
 
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