Reflections Detailing of Utah: Jet Black Jag

J

janderson

New member
Yes, I know that this is not a detailing thread, but I need some info fast. I have been looking at a 2002 Audi A4. I have never bought a "new" car before.



How negotiable are dealerships on price. When they say that is the bottom line, do they mean it? If they offer me a pathetic amount of money for my current car, should I take it, or try to sell it on my own?



If the price of the car payment is too high, how can I negotiate it? Should I look at a bunch of different dealerships, or should I stick to the ones that are local?



Any input that you have is always appreciated. Thanks.



Best regards.
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

If they offer me a pathetic amount of money for my current car, should I take it, or try to sell it on my own?</blockquote>

I dont think <strong class='bbc'>if[/b] is the right word. They WILL try and screw you on the price of your trade. Dealers are only going to pay BlackBook wholesale. They could care less what shape it's in. I would try and sell it on your own.

As far as buying a new car, everything is negotiable. Don't let them try and push you into something, remember you are the one with the money so if they offer you a deal you don't like, or act like they don't want to be bothered with you.....walk out. I have left dealers just because I don't like their attiude. Some act like you should be thankful they are willing to sell you a car. Give me a break. :down

The main thing to do when buying a new car......do your homework. Find out the invoice price, dealer holdbacks etc. www.edmunds.com has lots of info that will be of help. The more you know the less likely are to get screwed by the dealer.
 
1) Find out exactly what the dealer invoice cost is for your car. You can go to any number of websites to calculate the invoice price based on vehicle make and options. Without this piece of information you are truly at the mercy of the dealerships.

Here is one link...

2) Consider ordering your vehicle exactly how you want it versus buying one off the lot. This will allow you to control what happens to the car (hopefully!) and plus you get it exactly like you wanted.

3) You need to get at least 3 quotes on your vehicle to get an idea of what kind of deals are available to you. It will be more convenient for you to use a local dealer, usually. But you don't have to get your quotes only from local dealers. If your local dealer is higher than somewhere else, see if they will match it and if they get pretty close and are cool about it, buy it from them. Otherwise, buy it from the place you feel is giving you the best deal.

4) Do not be afraid to insist on a certain price. You know (from step 1) pretty much exactly what the car is costing them. If they can order the car in and make a quick $1000, they will probably do it. Walk away and mean it if they won't deal. There are lots of places to buy cars at now days. Just tell them "This place has made me this deal. Will you match it?" It's that simple. It helps to have the other quote in hand and just show it to them. Why not?

5) If you find a car on their lot that is just what you want, make darn sure it has very low miles (like under 20) and has no finish problems. You know what to look for now in that department. Never buy a car with more than 20 miles on it as a new car - they need to knock some off because they have been driving it and will most likely not tell you why (or lie).
 
I found the following website to be very helpful when I bought my truck:

http://www.carprice.com

Three of the most helpful sections were

1. "Car/Truck Prices" - this had invoice prices/codes that exactly matched the codes on the sticker (moreso than Edmunds).
2. "Target Pricing" - this tells you how much over invoice price you should expect to pay, and still get a good deal. You should always bargain for "over invoice" pricing.
3. "Car negotiation"

I ended up selling my old car myself, because the dealer was only offering be half of what I sold it for. I've heard that other people have had better results.
 
Leave it out of any and all negotiations. Don't even mention your old car. If they ask, tell them it's not part of the deal.



After you have decided to buy your new car, mention that you have decided to sell your old car and are curious what they would offer you. If you like what you hear (low probability) then sell it to them. Otherwise, sell it yourself. Then, if you want, put the money from that sale and chunk it down on your loan (assuming you have one) if the interest rate on your loan is higher than what you can make off the money staying in a money-market type account. If not, keep the money in the investment account. Simple.



Edit: If you decide to sell the car yourself, then find that it's taking too much time and/or energy - don't worry. You can always sell it to a used car dealership. You may take a bit of a hit but probably you will come out with about what the dealership offered you before.
 
Watch out for an old but very effective way of getting you to agree to a lower trade-in price for your old car.



Firstly the sales man will give you a trade in price, then he will need to seek agreement from the sales manager who will not agree to the price agreed but will only accept a lower price (ranging from a few hundred $ to thousands $). The salesman will come back to you blaming the sales manager (thus keeping his friendly relationship with you) and tell you the new price for a guaranteed deal. Most of the time this works and your trade in price can drop quickly.



The method I have described is actually much more subtle, but you get the idea



Steven

Alfa 164
 
Check to see how "busy" the dealership service departments are, as well as their policies. Many offer "free" loaners. Does the "free" loaner require an advance appointment? If so, call the service department and make up a problem like "I got a noisy heater fan under warranty, when can I come in?". If they tell you 5 weeks, well, you have to decide if you can wait for that kind of service. Call around, various dealerships have better response times and/or more bays. Just thought I'd give you more to think about. There's a lot more to satisfaction than just price.
 
If you don't need the AWD, PLEASE test drive the 325i......



Anyhow, CyberCowboy is right on.



Do your homework, and start at the invoice price when negotiating, and work up from there. Tell him you can go somewhere else and get it for x% over invoice but you don't like the dealer because you were not treated fairly, and see if he can match it.....and that money talks. Also hit some audi web forums and see what the street price is by asking other members. When I bought my BMW, it was 5% over invoice but the first 2 dealers I went to didn't budge more than 500 off sticker. The varience depends on how many cars they sell, their margins and costs, and how many they have on the lot or on order. Some BMW dealerships were charging sticker because their whole ordered fleet was sold for the next 3 months on 3 series. They didn't care if you went somewhere else because they had nothing to sell! Go to a few dealers and don't be afraid to walk out even if they offer you a WEEKEND DEAL that can never be matched again,etc,etc,etc. Their mentality is that if you walk out, you will never come back.



Also consider service as I got a GREAT deal, but was treated like crap by my dealer during the whole ordering, waiting, and delivery process. Also their service sucks and if I go somewhere else I don't get a loaner!



Lastly, leave your trade out of it. Better off selling it yourself, but if you do trade it in, leave it out of the deal, and then make the deal pending on a fair price for your trade.



Good luck.....what are you looking at? 1.8T or 3.0?
 
Keep that in mind. Bad service will ruin your month!



I priced a nice Audi A4 4dr Sdn 3.0L Quattro AWD Man with $4553 in options (stuff I would get without going crazy!) and the invoice / MSRP came out to $34,296 / $37,830. So, I would shoot for $35,000 or lower.



Since I don't have a clue what the demand for these cars are, you may be able to go all the way down to 34,300 or you may find that the best you can find is $38,000. But in the current economy I would say the former is more likely than the latter.
 
Trade ins will lower your TAX since the tax is based on sell price minus trade in. THis could be important.



Research the value of your trade in..try Kelley blue book I think it is kbb.com or something.



Notes are based on amount financed and interest rates and length of loan.



Shop shop shop do not rush buy into anything.
 
I totally agree with Dave and Showroom....



Under NO circumstances should you be paying anything over the True Market Value listed at Edmunds.com or the Target Price listed at carprice.com. You might even be able to do better if there is a dealer holdback and you play your cards right.



All the other advice about what to do with your trade-in sound excellent.
 
I just went through this over the last few weeks...

These following sites info was rock solid and take their advice!

To find the dealer invoice on your new car, configure your car on CarsDirect.com. The dealer invoice they show is accurate.

http://www.carsdirect.com

You can even get a great no hassle deal through them!

If not then...

Spend $27 here and get ALL the option info, holdback, consumer rebates, dealer incentives & everything else about the car you want to buy. They'll even go through your lease contract with you over the phone, if you decide to lease, before you sign it.

http://www.fightingchance.com/

Here's another no-nonsense site....

http://www.carbuyingtips.com/

Sell your used car yourself.

Also, get pre-approved for your loan BEFORE you go to buy your car. I saved almost 3% interest off of all other loan offers my by getting my loan through
E-loan.com E-Loan

Also,

DON'T BUY AN EXTENDED WARRANTY AT THE DEALER.

Go to Warranty Direct or Warranty Gold

If you follow the directions at Fighting Chance & do a FAX Attack, you never have to set foot in a dealership except to pick up the car and pay for it.

If you go into it with your emotions high you will get burned & spend thousands of dollars more than you had to. It's your money and they want all of it they can get.

I saved $3800 by doing my homework over what the dealer wanted for my vehicle. I sold my old car and got $2500 more than what I was offered by the dealer 10 days later & the guy buying my old car still got a great deal.
 
You won't even get the edmunds trade value for your car at most dealerships. They pay wholesale BlackBook, or not much more. That is typically half of what the car is actually worth.
 
Not the same in every state. Factor it in. I've bought exactly two new vehicles with trade-in. The first time I got hosed. The second time was great because of a tax thing.



You see, my wife won a pickup truck. It was a 94 Ranger, absolutely no options. At the time I had a beater 88 Mazda B2200 pickup that I was going to sell soon anyway. So, we took the new truck and old truck into the dealership and traded both for a brand new B3000 pickup. I had put 200 miles on the new truck, so the dealership valued the old truck as high as possible and the new truck as low as possible. That way I only had to pay income taxes on the reduced value of the new truck - not the sticker price.



Missouri had several laws concerning all of this, and I sought advice from a CPA to make sure all was on the up and up.



Then, come tax time, I didn't get a 1099 for the truck we won. I contacted the place that gave it away and they were like "1099? What for? We never did that before..."



I could just see them getting audited some day and the IRS coming after me. I insisted on the 1099, they sent me one, I paid my reduced taxes...like an idiot probably. But an idiot who could withstand an audit. :xyxthumbs
 
Showroom is right, most of the dealers are full of it. You need to get everything in writing. I had a bent rim when I got the car and the salesguy was telling me how they would take care of it after the sale, if I listened to him I would be out of a rim. I got the damage in writing and when it came around to get a new rim he tried to weasle his way out of it, all I did was ask the supervisor to look at the contract and the salesperson felt pretty bad. Get any favor in writing, any damage that they say they will fix in writing, the time frame of the work, the extent of the work.



Just have the mentality that, if it's not in writing you have no proof and you get any service from them. They are there to sell you a car, not to give away free stuff, if they can weasel their way out of it, it looks good. That's what makes a salesperson a saleperson.



Don't even start with the sale's people acting like they can't do you any favors. Those guys are there to sell cars (pretty outright but they ca mask that pretty well). I like to know how much they get the car for from the factory plus their prep costs so when they give you bull about "we arnt making anything" you can ask to talk to thier boss and show them the figures. You can tell them how much they are making from the car off of you, how much the bank is going to make and so on.



One more thing, trade in's..... Don't let them push you around, it is true that you will not get book vaule on your car but you should be able to get close. If your car runs good and looks as good there is no reason why you need to settle for such a low price. Make sure you tell them this when they give you bull about how much it is going to cost to inspect the car before they sell "it's a state law to inspect everything on the car before you sell it, so why are you trying to cut down on how much you need to give me for the car, you say you need to pay the mechanics to inspect the car, even if you gave me 1.00 for the car, you are paying 200.00 for someone to inspect it anyhow, that cost is coming from your pocket not mine, since when did I have to help you guys inspect and sell the car".



Just catch them in their own lies. I have helped a few friends buy cars, they have saved a few thousand and thanked me greatly. All I ask is for some lunch...... :-)



Have fun, hopefully I put you in the right attitude to beat those sales people at thier own game (you can't beat them but at least you don't need to get suckered).
 
My deepest thanks! You all are my friends without faces. The advice you have given me has been tremendous. I am going to tell you what happened to me today.



I have been wanting to get a new car, but I have had no need for one. Well after much consideration, I decided that I should at least begin looking around at the different cars out on the market.



I know that new cars are one of the worst investments imaginable, but you get the better interest rates with new cars (plus, I have never owned a "new" car). I currently drive a 1989 325i with about 123,000 miles on the odometer. The trade in Kelly Blue book value for the car is $2,700. Kelly Blue book rates the car at $5,000 if I sold it on my own. Ok, so now you have a bit of the background information about the car.



I went into the Audi dealership on Saturday and drove the 2002 A4 1.8T. The car was so nice. I did not look at the BMW's because they are a bit more expensive, and I did not want to pay that much for a Bimmr (even though I love my BMW). The dealership in Maryland that is closest to me (Towson BMW) is horrible (that is an understatement). They treat their customers so poorly, and I did not want to give them my business. The other BMW dealerships in Maryland are not close to where I live, so I ruled them out (for now).



So after driving the car on Saturday, I got the New Car "Bug." I cannot get this car off of my mind. So I went to the dealership today to talk numbers. The car that I drove had the sports package and a few other features that put it at $30,550. They paid $27,750 for the car. The dealership then said that they would only give me $1,700 for my car (I almost choked). They said that was all that I could get for my car. I looked right at the guy and laughed at him. I said to him, "do I look like a fool?" I knew what my car was worth, and that they were trying to take me for a ride.



So I just went along with it to see where it went. So, with the $1,700 off, the car was still expensive. And because I sill owed a bit of money on the loan that I took out on the BMW (bought it used), they had to give me enough money to pay off the small amount left. Well, they simply tacked on the difference to the price of the car.



So, when all was said and done, the car was still about $29,000, and I am not even sure if that included tax, tags, and the other important things that would get me out on the road.



I should have posted this some time ago. I felt naked in front of the salesman. The worst part is that most of you have noted areas to watch out for, and this place did them all (from using the manager as the bad guy to telling me that I could not get a better deal).



So, I think that I am going to hold off for right now. I have to get the numbers on paper before I go into another car dealership. So here is my plan of attack:



1. Find out the MSRP for the car

2. Get a number of quotes for the car that I want

3. Keep my BMW out of the negotiations, and sell it on my own

4. Shop around



Thank you all for your input. If you have any other suggestions, please let me know. As always, each of your input is advice heeded!



Thanks,

Josh
 
Going to the dealership and talking to the salepeople is the best thing you can do for yourself.



You know how I learned about how sleazy sales people were? I got ripped off on my first car, since then I actually asked my friends to go to the dealership with them to help, I hate people screwing others over.



If I were you I would try to sell the car on your own and make a few visits, fart around with the sales people. You don't know what tricks they are going to try to use against you so go and see dealers and talk, see how they they want to rip you and just collect all of the bull from a few dealerships and use it on one sales person. Who knows .......... you may find a good deal along the line, maybe one of the sales guys will give you a decent deal.



The sales guy I had for the Camaro SS I own now was new off of the street, I beleive I was one of his first 5-8 sales. He even took a picture of me and my car, still was making his portfolio. If you can, sense out the weak sales person and attack them :-), they'll be happy to make the sale and you'll be happy because you have more odds of getting a break with them than another experienced con artist.



P.S. Know the prices, let them know when you get the car you got to fix this which will cost this much and that will cost this much, and your not doing it because you want to, your doing it because you need to because the dealership wont, so the car really costs what your paying them plus the costs of fixing it.... (find some defects that you dont care about but you can moan and gripe about because its a new car)... :)
 
I wanted to get an extended warantee for my vette because I can't work on it (too much electronics and stuff I don't understand). The dealer quoted me a 5-year $500 deductable (per incident - even related incidents!) for something like $2200. I went online and found a 7 year $100 deductable (multiple related incidents not extra!) for $800. Sheez. Did I look like that big of a fool or what??? For a little more I could have got $0 deductable. I can find out where I got this at if anybody cares. It was all done online, with one confirmation phone call from them.



The dealer gave me a good deal on the car only because I had quotes from other (large!) vette dealers for $500 over invoice and I followed the rules I have laid out here for you. They didn't quite meet that ($1000 over was it) but I bought the car from them anyway due to their proximity and the fact that their service department is pretty good. When the car was delivered in late September, they didn't clean it per my instructions. And then I got the 0% interest deal and it was even better. I was going to pay cash for the car, but instead financed the whole thing at 0.0% while my cash earns interest!



Writing the check for Missouri sales tax was really sucky, though.
 
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