Rear camera shorted out and they want me to pay
- Thread starter DutrowLLC
- Start date
imported_mirrorfinishman
New member
DutrowLLC said:
It is your obligation to be totally responsibility for anything that happens to the vehicle as a result of something you did during the detailing process. That includes anything electrical that may fail as a result of washing. It is not a debate. It is the risk you accepted when you agreed to detail the vehicle.
Envious Eric
New member
^^^^^ yeah if he did it.....but if it wasnt his fault why would he have to pay for it? if all he did was wash the car, then it didnt cause it to short because it would have shorted and already been broken from the first time the car was washed by the owners....
if he polished the casing and the vibrations caused a short, then yeah, but if its just the same routine washing that gets done to it all the time, then its not his fault...what happens when it rains...MORE WATER hits it...are they going to try and get mother nature to pay for it...I still call BS he even did it
tell them to find proof that you did it, or tell them to kick rocks....shady people suck
if he polished the casing and the vibrations caused a short, then yeah, but if its just the same routine washing that gets done to it all the time, then its not his fault...what happens when it rains...MORE WATER hits it...are they going to try and get mother nature to pay for it...I still call BS he even did it
tell them to find proof that you did it, or tell them to kick rocks....shady people suck
mirrorfinishman said:
Way I see it that is correct only when one does work on area that will get damaged if washed without doing it correctly.
However, one should not be liable for water damage when working with water on a part that is implied as waterproof. If part failed to work like it should then it would have failed even if vehicle was washed by an owner and should be responsibility of vehicle manufacturer to fix (assuming warranty is in place). If detailer knew part is faulty / not waterproof then he would have been given an opportunity to refuse request to wash it or protect it adequately. He was not given that opportunity.
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
mirrorfinishman said:
Frank - I totally disagree with you. Based on most insurance policies(and laws), it is the policy holders duty to take resonable care and custody of a vehicle in their possession. In this case, based upon the details given, he has. Therefore, he is not liable for this claim. It is also very clear from what jelfab stated in an earlier post that there is a service bullitin out for this specific component. Thus pointing less and less blame away from the shop. I see this on a regular basis when estimating claims in commercial garage type disputes. This person making the claim with the Toyota doesn't have a chance in hell of collecting one red cent from anyone except Toyota. If an insurance company was involved in this case they would clearly deny the claim and refer this person to the manufacturer. :bestwish
jfelbab
New member
Here is the TSB for the 2004 Sienna. As I stated earlier tell the customer this is a known Toyota defect that the dealer should repair for free.
TSIB
EL003-05 NO PICTURE DISPLAYED FROM BACKUP CAMERA
3/29/2005 - 2004 Toyota 4Runner and Sienna. Some customers may experience a blank screen when shifting into reverse on vehicles equipped with the Toyota Navigation System and backup camera. An improved camera has been developed to remedy this condition.
File is associated with other vehicles. 2004 Toyota 4Runner 2004 Toyota Sienna
You have no part in this failure.
TSIB
EL003-05 NO PICTURE DISPLAYED FROM BACKUP CAMERA
3/29/2005 - 2004 Toyota 4Runner and Sienna. Some customers may experience a blank screen when shifting into reverse on vehicles equipped with the Toyota Navigation System and backup camera. An improved camera has been developed to remedy this condition.
File is associated with other vehicles. 2004 Toyota 4Runner 2004 Toyota Sienna
You have no part in this failure.
imported_cj99si
New member
jfelbab said:
Nice work!
DutrowLLC said:
Not sure how they would prove it but in this particular case they'd prove it to me in a court of law. I gather they noticed the problem right away but didn't mention it until after they took it to a dealer and got it fixed. The dealers opinion might matter to a judge but it would not matter to me at all. You'd have to force me to pay in a court of law as two rules of mine have not been met. Rule #1 I have to believe or know that I have damaged something. Rule #2 I need to know that my actions that caused the damage could have been avoided. For instance if I spray a cleaner on a surface and damage occurs, I'm guilty. If I open your car do and the engine falls out then KMA. Lastly if you did cause the damage I find it hard to believe you would be responsible even in court. Prior damage or wear would have to be there to allow the water in. If the prior damage or wear was obvious then you might be at fault. If not then you wouldn't. Just my opinion though.
I would have to agree with most people on here that you are probably not liable. The only way I see you being liable is if you did something wrong or out of the ordinary. For example if you held a pressure washer nozzle to close to the camera and forced water inside that might be your fault, but if you only washed the car using safe practices I see no reason that you should be responsible. After all, they asked you to wash it, knew it would be getting wet, and didn't warn you to not get the camera area wet, which shouldn't matter anyway. Best of luck.
I'd get with the customer and let them know about the TSB and that they demand the dealer make good on it. The only problem you might run into is they probably took it to the dealer and said "I just had my car detailed and now the back-up camera isn't working" and it gave the dealer an out on the TSB.
Unless you blasted the camera with a pressure washer, I simply can't see how washing the van could have in any way affected the camera unless there was already something wrong with it, like a cracked lens or another defect that could have allowed excessive water to enter it.
Unless you blasted the camera with a pressure washer, I simply can't see how washing the van could have in any way affected the camera unless there was already something wrong with it, like a cracked lens or another defect that could have allowed excessive water to enter it.
imported_chpsk8
New member
I think I'd ask the customer for the following.
1. How soon after the detail did you notice it?
2. Why didn't you call me right away?
3. How soon after you noticed it did you take it to the dealership?
4. Which dealership?
5. Who is your service writer? (then call him and ask him about the TSB)
6. Did they look for a TSB, or did you just tell them that I broke it and you don't car what it costs?
7. I need to see the broken parts so I can have them verified that they broke due to moisuter damage.. sorry, it's just a policy we have.
If you have insurance, just turn it tover to them if it gets too heated. They'll take care of it.
1. How soon after the detail did you notice it?
2. Why didn't you call me right away?
3. How soon after you noticed it did you take it to the dealership?
4. Which dealership?
5. Who is your service writer? (then call him and ask him about the TSB)
6. Did they look for a TSB, or did you just tell them that I broke it and you don't car what it costs?
7. I need to see the broken parts so I can have them verified that they broke due to moisuter damage.. sorry, it's just a policy we have.
If you have insurance, just turn it tover to them if it gets too heated. They'll take care of it.
Brian_Brice
New member
:angry :angry :angry :wall :wall :wall Man does this sort of thing piss me off. Do not accept responsibility for these peoples most likely pre-existing problem. reminds me of the time a woman claimed my pressure washer chipped the paint on her bumper. (i didnt use a pressure washer i used onr. i have pre service pics as well) some people just flat out suck.I feel for ya and back you 100%. IF IT WAS your service that lead to the demise of the camera it sounds like a factory defect not detailer induced damage!
Brian_Brice
New member
another thing, i use to do underpaid work for a marina, all electronics in a boat are "waterproof" i witnessed the "waterproofing service" done first hand. They did not follow the retailers suggested regemin for waterproofing installations. also witnessed many boats having new electronics installed due to water damage.
jfelbab
New member
VaSuperShine said:
You know s_it happens. Here is a customer who brings their car in and when they leave they notice the back-up camera is not working. What would you suspect? I don't think they had any knowledge of a failed camera before the detail. I doubt they were aware that this is a known defect with that camera in they model/year. I think if they are shown the TSIB and alerted to this camera being prone to failure they will conclude, as we do, that it was not the fault of the wash.
Let's give the customer the benefit of the doubt and not assume they are trying to pull a fast one lest we jump to inaccurate conclusions like they did.
Brian_Brice
New member
jfelbab said:
Fair enough, more often than not though they will try to get you. i guess we will have to wait and see the outcome. it just really makes me mad reading things like this, i've only been wrongfully accused of a few things but even after explanation the customer is usually still wanting a paintjob for thier 30 dollar wash. if they give him trouble i stick to my original post :chuckle:
Superior Fine said:
Really not a bad idea (assuming you have insurance). I too would put it in their hands (while lettinig them know you're not conviced you're responsible - cause if you're not convinced, you can bet your arse they won't be convinced...and they'll fight it (you're customer will get no where with them).
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
RAG said:
I agree with this 100% being an Insurance Adjuster. They will get $0
imported_mirrorfinishman
New member
jfelbab said:
Speak for yourself, jfelbab. Not all of us conclude that it was not the fault of the wash. The fact remains; when you have custody and control of a vehicle, you are on the hook when something happens to it.