Really bad Water Spot Woes
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imported_Blake
New member
I've used Finish First and found it to be a good product. It is a one step with some mild cleaners similar to AiO. I found it easy to use quite durable and overall I was pleased. I began using Klasse based on recommendations from this forum and find Klasse's two products do a better job but they are somewhat more expensive. There's nothing wrong with Finish First but I think most members would believe Klasse or Zaino are superior. Finish First is very easy to put on and remove....they infact recommend leaving it on overnight if possible and removing it after a long "curing" time. Very easy to use.
i actually have ff on my eclipse right now. i've always liked it pretty well. seems very durable and the shine is allright. evidently, it has some abrasive properties which prevent it from layers. which is odd because i distinctly remember hearing it could be layered. of course, that was before i found autopia. my klasse stuff should be arriving on monday in preparation for my new car. 
but i'll probably keep the finish first for other cars or my motorcycles' engines.
but i'll probably keep the finish first for other cars or my motorcycles' engines.imported_BretFraz
New member
I've used FF on and off since 1997. They make a nice little line of products that are very easy to use and affordable. The Finish Prep is a chemical cleaner and swirl remover that does a nice job as long as your paint is in excellent condition. Finish First polish is also easy to use, leaves a great slick finish, and lasts a good amount of time (I got about 3 months protection but that was with commercial washes, I think it would've lasted longer had I hand washed the car instead).
A few Autopians did some research on it and found the composition not to be as advanced as other polymer sealants. Geekysteve (Mr. Waxtest himself) found that FF and Liquid Glass were essentially the same product and neither performed well.
I still feel its a fine product for the price. Its ease of use on new cars is defintely a strong point. I'm not convinced about the claims of it having abrasive properties and not being able to be layered. The product seems to me to be in the same class as other sealants like Zaino, Klasse, and Blackfire. Maybe not as sophisticated but it does the same basic job.
If you're looking for an affordable polymer alternative to the other pricey products, FF is a fine choice.
A few Autopians did some research on it and found the composition not to be as advanced as other polymer sealants. Geekysteve (Mr. Waxtest himself) found that FF and Liquid Glass were essentially the same product and neither performed well.
I still feel its a fine product for the price. Its ease of use on new cars is defintely a strong point. I'm not convinced about the claims of it having abrasive properties and not being able to be layered. The product seems to me to be in the same class as other sealants like Zaino, Klasse, and Blackfire. Maybe not as sophisticated but it does the same basic job.
If you're looking for an affordable polymer alternative to the other pricey products, FF is a fine choice.
I wouldn't feel comfortable using Finish First on a new car. It is much more abrasive than All in One in my opinion. Most here only use Finish First on beater cars that really need some cleaning. I used it once on a red 94 Topaz. The Finish First just about stripped half the paint. My white towels came out noticeabley pink to red in color. Ouch!
Peter J. Porter
New member
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by Don2000* [/i]
<strong class='bbc'> I used it once on a red 94 Topaz. The Finish First just about stripped half the paint. My white towels came out noticeabley pink to red in color. Ouch! [/b]</blockquote>
I thinks thats a pretty unfair test of FF's harshness. What kind of clear does a 94 K car have anyway if it even has one? Using any wax on my black 90 Sentra I used to have which was as much a budget car as the Topaz would do the same thing to my applicators as well.
I have never had that experience and I have been using FF for over 7 years on my 92 Accord, then 96 Accord, and now my 2002 TL Type-S which I have had for 9 months. Regardless I have never heard of anyone using FF on a clear coated car share a similar story, and I have no worries about using it on my 2002 TL-S. It was also recommended by ceratin corvette clubs and ferrarl clubs as well. While that of course is no prrof of anything, I dont see them recommending anything as harsh as that post implies.
Since buying my TL-S, she's gotten several coats of FF (12+). I cant even count the coats on the Accord. Never got any paint off of any of them when polishing them. FF leaves the Slickest surface I have ever felt and it lasts a pretty long time as well. Dont let anyone scare you.
These are the best I can do with the crappy camera I had when I had the Accord. The pics of the Accord were over 6 months since its last coat of FF, and the TL-S hasnt seen any in 3+ months and I just cleaned off the road salt today. Sorry for the bad lighting.
In short I am very happy with FF, my friend is about to get some Klasse to replace his low stores of FF, so I plan on testing some of that as well. I'm sick I tell ya
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by Don2000* [/i]
<strong class='bbc'> I used it once on a red 94 Topaz. The Finish First just about stripped half the paint. My white towels came out noticeabley pink to red in color. Ouch! [/b]</blockquote>
I thinks thats a pretty unfair test of FF's harshness. What kind of clear does a 94 K car have anyway if it even has one? Using any wax on my black 90 Sentra I used to have which was as much a budget car as the Topaz would do the same thing to my applicators as well.
I have never had that experience and I have been using FF for over 7 years on my 92 Accord, then 96 Accord, and now my 2002 TL Type-S which I have had for 9 months. Regardless I have never heard of anyone using FF on a clear coated car share a similar story, and I have no worries about using it on my 2002 TL-S. It was also recommended by ceratin corvette clubs and ferrarl clubs as well. While that of course is no prrof of anything, I dont see them recommending anything as harsh as that post implies.
Since buying my TL-S, she's gotten several coats of FF (12+). I cant even count the coats on the Accord. Never got any paint off of any of them when polishing them. FF leaves the Slickest surface I have ever felt and it lasts a pretty long time as well. Dont let anyone scare you.
These are the best I can do with the crappy camera I had when I had the Accord. The pics of the Accord were over 6 months since its last coat of FF, and the TL-S hasnt seen any in 3+ months and I just cleaned off the road salt today. Sorry for the bad lighting.
In short I am very happy with FF, my friend is about to get some Klasse to replace his low stores of FF, so I plan on testing some of that as well. I'm sick I tell ya
Chuckmotor
New member
Where do you get Finish First? Order it or get it locally? Where is it locally?
Peter J. Porter
New member
Oh yeah the TL-S has a custom Clear bra cut for the front, can you see the line? I have other pics of it at the below link.
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31855
I bought FF through webaster at H-A.net in my sig during a special, but it can be bought online at www.finishfirstpolish.com
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31855
I bought FF through webaster at H-A.net in my sig during a special, but it can be bought online at www.finishfirstpolish.com
DETAILKING
New member
I don't want to bust on any products....but.....
FF will do a nice job on a car. The consensus is that it contains abrasives (polishing agents) and solvents that will inhibit layering. It is not SUPER durable, but on par with most synthetics. Multiple coats or often appliction is pointless because successive coats strip the first one and reapply a new one. Most of us like to apply something to the car more than 3-4 times a year and get motivation out of layering and changing/improving the look of the car. So we use products that afford us to do that. Finish first does seem to be quite identical to liquid glass. These formulas are high solvent (just smell the stuff) and were designed when automotive paint was much different. I feel these products are better suited for older cars or for the guy that is looking for a "one step" product 2-4 times a year......
FF will do a nice job on a car. The consensus is that it contains abrasives (polishing agents) and solvents that will inhibit layering. It is not SUPER durable, but on par with most synthetics. Multiple coats or often appliction is pointless because successive coats strip the first one and reapply a new one. Most of us like to apply something to the car more than 3-4 times a year and get motivation out of layering and changing/improving the look of the car. So we use products that afford us to do that. Finish first does seem to be quite identical to liquid glass. These formulas are high solvent (just smell the stuff) and were designed when automotive paint was much different. I feel these products are better suited for older cars or for the guy that is looking for a "one step" product 2-4 times a year......
DK is right on. I stick with my original assessment that Finish First is not really one of the better products that can be used on new cars. It is way too abrasive to be used regularly. I believe DKs test have highlighted this notion even more now. I must admit this though, that for neglected cars, it works pretty well.
As for the 94 Topas and even 97 Camaro that I used (black) it just didn't perform too well for me. The towels seemed to come out not so white. I don't get this problem with Pinnacle PCL or Klasse AIO, Zaino, Klasse, etc.
When it all comes down to it. anyone is certainly entitled to use any product they like. However users of this product should DEFINITELY be warned of the dangers of using it regularly on a new car. That is the responsible thing to do. Hope this helps. Laters.
Don
As for the 94 Topas and even 97 Camaro that I used (black) it just didn't perform too well for me. The towels seemed to come out not so white. I don't get this problem with Pinnacle PCL or Klasse AIO, Zaino, Klasse, etc.
When it all comes down to it. anyone is certainly entitled to use any product they like. However users of this product should DEFINITELY be warned of the dangers of using it regularly on a new car. That is the responsible thing to do. Hope this helps. Laters.
Don
I've got a single stage paint job of questionable quality on my alfa spider. A respray by the previous owner that "looks good" but...
The car has had about 6-10 random milky-looking water spots pop up in the past which were removed during a pro detail job 3 months ago. (I've only had the car 4 months so this issue is still new to me...)
All was good until today when i found my car covered with spots after some rain last night. These aren't surface spots, they're in the paint. The surface looks and feels as smooth as glass. In a panic, I purchased some ScratchX which has helped and 2 hours into the job I managed to remove about 10% of the spots. (by hand) And I fear about 5% of my paint! At this rate I'll be at it all week before they're all gone. Clearly I need a better method. My question- am I using the right product for the job? And more important, what can I apply that might stop this from happening again? I've been washing and waxing with Maguires products weekly- it's beautifully shiny and water beads on the car. In fact, these spots were hiding under the water beads.
A proper repaint is in my future but I need some way to address this while I save my money for a quality respray. I can't keep polishing the car every time it rains. Or can I? Help.
pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/55305530@N03/sets/72157625276972972
The car has had about 6-10 random milky-looking water spots pop up in the past which were removed during a pro detail job 3 months ago. (I've only had the car 4 months so this issue is still new to me...)
All was good until today when i found my car covered with spots after some rain last night. These aren't surface spots, they're in the paint. The surface looks and feels as smooth as glass. In a panic, I purchased some ScratchX which has helped and 2 hours into the job I managed to remove about 10% of the spots. (by hand) And I fear about 5% of my paint! At this rate I'll be at it all week before they're all gone. Clearly I need a better method. My question- am I using the right product for the job? And more important, what can I apply that might stop this from happening again? I've been washing and waxing with Maguires products weekly- it's beautifully shiny and water beads on the car. In fact, these spots were hiding under the water beads.
A proper repaint is in my future but I need some way to address this while I save my money for a quality respray. I can't keep polishing the car every time it rains. Or can I? Help.
pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/55305530@N03/sets/72157625276972972
bmw5541
New member
First of all, welcome to TID Jill. THis is a great place and you should be able to get a lot of information about just about anything you need.
Now, on to your problem. First, if the water spots are under the wax, you will need to strip the wax in order to get to the problem areas. Wash the car with Dawn dish detergent, as it will strip away the wax. Then you might want to clay the car. That might help to remove the spots. If not, you can try spraying vinegar onto the spots and let dwell for a few seconds and then wipe away. If that doesn't help, you just might have to step it up to using a machine polisher, such as a PC, Meg's G110v2 or a Griots Garage 6" RO. If you go this route, you will also need some polishing pads and try Meg's M105 to compound. If that works, you may need a finishing polish to bring the shine back to the paint. After all of this is done, you will need to seal the paint again.
Call Angelo at PAC and he will be able to help you out with anything you may need.
Good luck, and be sure to let us know how it turns out.
Now, on to your problem. First, if the water spots are under the wax, you will need to strip the wax in order to get to the problem areas. Wash the car with Dawn dish detergent, as it will strip away the wax. Then you might want to clay the car. That might help to remove the spots. If not, you can try spraying vinegar onto the spots and let dwell for a few seconds and then wipe away. If that doesn't help, you just might have to step it up to using a machine polisher, such as a PC, Meg's G110v2 or a Griots Garage 6" RO. If you go this route, you will also need some polishing pads and try Meg's M105 to compound. If that works, you may need a finishing polish to bring the shine back to the paint. After all of this is done, you will need to seal the paint again.
Call Angelo at PAC and he will be able to help you out with anything you may need.
Good luck, and be sure to let us know how it turns out.
As mentioned above sometimes vinegar will work. You can use a longer dwell time by spraying the surface with vinegar, apply some paper towels over the vinegar, followed by spraying more vinegar onto the paper towels. You will want to do this in a garage or out of the direct sunlight. Do a test section first before trying it on a large area.
Keep us up to date.
Keep us up to date.
imported_detailchick
New member
Ive never really seen just rain water spot like that unless the car is under trees, leaky carport or exposed to something other than just rain.
Maybe you could give that detailer a call and ask his opinion since he worked on it last?
Ive never seen acid rain in my area , Ca. What state are you in?
could this be acid rain?
Maybe you could give that detailer a call and ask his opinion since he worked on it last?
Ive never seen acid rain in my area , Ca. What state are you in?
could this be acid rain?
imported_Flash Gordon
New member
You need a wax that has sheeting action, not beading action. Sounds like you got hit with some nasty rain for sure. Good luck :-B
State of confusion is where I hang my hat :Snowman:
imported_detailchick
New member
LOL Flash! :tongue:I think as one ages the confusion gets worse!
Maybe you can suggest some for Jill that have sheeting action ?
Success! For now..
Thanks for the replies all! Well it's been a long and hard day's work but I removed the spots and the car now looks better than ever.. let's hope I can keep it that way.
Vinegar did nothing and the spots laughed at the clay bar. What did work was 3M rubbing compound with lots of rubbing followed by Megs ScratchX2.0 and more rubbing. The spots were very stubborn and well into the paint but eventually I got rid of them. By eventually I mean 6 hours of rubbing by hand and 2 hours with a rotary buffer that a neighbor kindly loaned me this afternoon. It all went slowly as I didn't want to take off more paint than necessary in the process. I took my time.
I followed with a polish and a thorough wax.
I suspect the old single stage paint is very porous and somehow the rain and what ever is in the rain is penetrating beneath the paint surface. I'm in Los Angeles and the rain isn't exactly pristine here but I believe ultimately this is due to the paint's unusual porosity and not the LA rain.
Interestingly the hood of the car was spotless and in polishing I discovered the hood, and only the hood, is clear coated. Must have been replaced at some point. So at least I don't have to worry about these spots on that part of the car
I think that the wax from my detail 3 months ago had mostly worn away and was no longer offering enough protection. The car's my daily driver and lives outside so it's exposed to a lot. I wash the car by hand weekly and had been using Megs Ultimate Quik wax after each wash. It seems the Quik wax, applied weekly, isn't quite enough protection for the poor paint on this car. Or maybe I need to do a major wax with a heavy duty product more often than 3X a year? Maybe monthly or bi- monthly?
Thanks for the replies all! Well it's been a long and hard day's work but I removed the spots and the car now looks better than ever.. let's hope I can keep it that way.
Vinegar did nothing and the spots laughed at the clay bar. What did work was 3M rubbing compound with lots of rubbing followed by Megs ScratchX2.0 and more rubbing. The spots were very stubborn and well into the paint but eventually I got rid of them. By eventually I mean 6 hours of rubbing by hand and 2 hours with a rotary buffer that a neighbor kindly loaned me this afternoon. It all went slowly as I didn't want to take off more paint than necessary in the process. I took my time.
I followed with a polish and a thorough wax.
I suspect the old single stage paint is very porous and somehow the rain and what ever is in the rain is penetrating beneath the paint surface. I'm in Los Angeles and the rain isn't exactly pristine here but I believe ultimately this is due to the paint's unusual porosity and not the LA rain.
Interestingly the hood of the car was spotless and in polishing I discovered the hood, and only the hood, is clear coated. Must have been replaced at some point. So at least I don't have to worry about these spots on that part of the car
I think that the wax from my detail 3 months ago had mostly worn away and was no longer offering enough protection. The car's my daily driver and lives outside so it's exposed to a lot. I wash the car by hand weekly and had been using Megs Ultimate Quik wax after each wash. It seems the Quik wax, applied weekly, isn't quite enough protection for the poor paint on this car. Or maybe I need to do a major wax with a heavy duty product more often than 3X a year? Maybe monthly or bi- monthly?