Re-charging your CRSpotless *Resin*

Accumulator said:
Heh heh, OK...that makes a lot better sense :D

I figured that would make more sense. I got so used to seeing both Supe's and your posts in the 105/205 thread I guess they became mixxed up in my head.
 
SuperBee, I know it is kinda old thread but wanted to know how the resin went through when you recharged them? and if you got the list of equipments to buy in order to make it right with no waste of resin.



Thank you and Happy New Years !!
 
Hey Supe, how did the winter resin recharge science project go?



I was going to PM this question to you but I figured others would like to know and your mail box is full. :)
 
Brandt,

Nice work! :) How many "batches" do you need to do in order to recharge a DIC-20's resin? (1/3 cu. ft) That's a 3 or 4 gallon water jug (with the transmission drain adapter) isn't it? When you drain off the cation do you just add more resin and let the cation settle again or are you pulling the anion out too? (or draining/separating) the water jug entirely (between batches)?



Also what was the 5 gallons of orange bucket "DI" water for? You make mention of it, but you give your lye/water a bath in tap water (to cool).



Is that just a bucket you had ready for rinsing the resins out?
 
Hey everyone!



I'm back... Kinda. Gotta move *again*. The lady we were renting from got foreclosed on, and the bank is giving us some cash to break our lease. So we're moving.



But back on topic....



It got cold right after I recharged the last batch of resin, so I'm just now pulling out the CRSpotless to see how long it lasts. The first batch didn't last long; I got about 50 gallons out of it. (I get about 100 gallons out of new resin with my extra-crunchy water here). I'm just about positive I didn't rinse the resin off good enough. The rinsing appears to be *the* most important part. If you don't get all the acid/lye off of each type of resin, then mix them together, the residual chemicals will deactivate the opposing resin. (And that was the purpose of the orange bucket, Fluxy... it was full of DI water to thoroughly rinse the acid/lye off of the resin.)



The second batch is loaded in the CRSpotless right now, after sitting there for the past six months.



Greg Nichols found a place that sells resin for really cheap. So cheap, that it's *almost* not worth the time and effort to recharge your own resin. Hopefully we can talk him in to posting a link to where he buys it from...



Given the right equipment, recharging your own resin really isn't that tough. Just takes a bit of effort, and the chemicals to do it are seriously cheap.



One thing that would make this a total breeze (and I'm hoping to make this after the move): an old ten gallon water bottle with the bottom cut out. Using a garden hook (like the kind you hang bird feeders on in your back yard) to hang it from, then using it to separate the resin (the lye step) would make this a total cake walk. You could do *more* than the contents of a DIC-20 in one shot. With my current setup, it takes two batches to do a DIC-20.





Fluxy, it's good to see ya around these parts again. Hope the married life is treating you well!
 
Supe,



glad to see you are alive! Pm me your email if you don't mind. It's been a while and playing catch up on forums isn't as easy! :)
 
I hear ya, man... Today's the first day I've been on Autopia since before Christmas. I have a bit of catching up to do, too.



Also have to clean out my PM box... totally stuffed. :/
 
SuperBee364 said:
I hear ya, man... Today's the first day I've been on Autopia since before Christmas. I have a bit of catching up to do, too.



Also have to clean out my PM box... totally stuffed. :/





You're tellin me. I got a 11 month old baby girl that takes most of my time now.
 
Mindflux said:
You're tellin me. I got a 11 month old baby girl that takes most of my time now.



CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!! Wooot!!!:woot:



That explains why you haven't been around lately!



FLUXY'S A DAD!!!!!



Let's see some pics of that cute little Detailer!!!!
 
photo.php
 
Well, it's official... It really does work.



Yesterday, I washed three cars, one of which was a pre-polish prep car, so it took a huge amount of water to do. After washing the cars, I had a bunch of five gallon buckets that needed to have a winter's worth of crapola cleaned out of them in order to bring them up to par for detailing use. So each bucket was filled, cleaned, and rinsed. The sole water source for the car washes (start to finish) and the bucket filling, cleaning, and rinsing was the CRSpotless filled with my regenerated resin. "Green" folks are gonna shoot me, but I ran around 80 gallons through my CRSpotless yesterday. I ran my John Deere gas powered pressure washer for almost five hours.



At the end of the day, the TDS meter hit 20. So I got about 20 less gallons using regenerated resin than I do when I use fresh resin. Not bad for 10 bucks worth of chemicals! My water here is *extremely* hard, so I only get 100 gallons out of fresh resin. I think most guys get about 300 or more.



Now of course my OCD wouldn't leave well enough alone; I've been researching how to make this whole process much, MUCH easier. As the old saying goes, "Give the laziest man the hardest job, and he'll find the easiest way to do it." Gents, I'd like to introduce you to the laziest man... Me. :)



This whole separating the resin system of regeneration isn't necessarily hard, but it could be a ton less labor intensive. How to fix that? Easy!



To start, I'm going to try and buy my resin as separate resins instead of mixed bed. But that's looking ahead... how to help the guys that have the mixed bed stuff?



Here's what to do:



1. Do step one in the regen process. Here's a quick refresher. As shown in the regeneration post (I think it's the first post on page three), dump all your mixed bed resin in the separation tank. Add the lye mixture until the resins separate into the two different types. Let it sit for around 45 minutes or so, stirring the top layer (not the bottom layer). The acid resin (cation) sinks to the bottom. Drain off the acid resin, and put it in a separate bucket.



2. Use DI (or distilled) water to rinse out BOTH types of resin. Keep the resin types separate, in their own buckets.



Now here is where we get a bit different from what I posted earlier. We're gonna KEEP THE RESINS SEPARATE FROM NOW ON.



I'm typing this out as a "how to", but keep in mind it's more of a way for all of us to give this a try; I haven't done this actual procedure *yet*, but it's how I'm gonna do it from now on.



3. Load one of your empty CRSpotless cartridges (not the blue thing, the actual cartridge that holds resin) with your acid (cation) resin. Don't put it in a blue cartridge holder yet. You'll see why in a minute.



4. Load your other empty CRSpotelss cartridge with the base (anion) resin, but don't put it in a blue cartridge holder yet. You'll see why later. This cartridge is now ready to go (for the most part, keep reading), as it was recharged when you separated the resin types in the lye bath.



5. Prepare a strong ( 1:1 or stronger) solution of hydrochloric acid (also known as muriatic acid)/water. The stronger the better. Do this in at least a five gallon bucket. I'm not sure if a five gallon bucket is gonna be tall enough for this until I get a chance to try it out... anyway...



6. Carefully (you are wearing gloves to the elbow, eye protection, and any other needed hazmat protection, right??? RIGHT?????) place the CRSpotless cartridge that contains the acid (cation) resin in the bucket containing the acid/water mix. Let it sit for an hour. Occasionally, carefully (CAREFULLY!!! ) slowly raise, then lower the cartridge back in the bucket.



7. Place a five gallon bucket full of clean water (DI would be best, but tap will do) next to your acid bucket. Carefully remove the cartridge from the acid bath, and place it in the clean water. Slowly raise and lower it a bunch of times in the clean water. If you use tap water for this, it will reduce the resin capacity somewhat, as the resin will try to deionize the water in the bucket.



8. Remove the cartridge from the clean water bucket, and place it in the blue CRSpotless cartridge holder, and screw it on to your CRSpotless.



9. Screw the other blue cartridge holder (WITH NO CARTRIDGE IN IT. IT NEEDS TO BE EMPTY) on the other side of your CRSpotless.



10. Run about five gallons of water through your CRSpotless. Collect it in a five gallon bucket. This water will be weakly acidic, and should be easily neutralized with some baking soda.



11. Remove the acid cartridge from the blue holder, and screw the (now empty) blue holder back on to the CRSpotless.



12. Place the base resin (anion) cartridge in a blue holder, and attach it to your CRSpotless. Run about five gallons of water through it. This water will be mildly caustic. If there's room in your acid bucket, you could recover this water to the acid bucket, as it will help to neutralize the acid.



13. Remove the empty blue holder from your CRSpotless, and place the acid resin (cation) cartridge in it.



14. Mount the cartridge holders on to the CRSpotless so that the ACID (CATION) RESIN CARTRIDGE WILL GET WATER FIRST! Yes, it is important that the CATION resin receives water before the anion resin.



Now while the above procedure sounds complicated, it's really not too bad. And the benefit is that the resins will now remain separate, and will greatly speed future regeneration. Here's how....



Now after your TDS meter hits 20, it's time to regen the resin again. It's gonna be easier this time, and from now on...



1. Remove the resin cartridges from their blue holders.



2. Prepare two five gallon buckets. One holding the lye regeneration solution, the other holding the acid solution.



3. Place each cartridge in it's respective bath for an hour, slowly raising and lowering the cartridge into the solution occasionally.



4. Prepare two buckets of fresh water. Place each cartridge in it's own water bucket, and raise/lower the cartridge repeatedly.



5. Perform steps 8 through 14, above.



Now of course all the disclaimer stuff. You are working with hazardous chemicals. I'm not responsible for any damage you cause to your self, others, the environment, your property, your neighbor's property, or anything else. This is all DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK stuff. Be careful, and be smart. Remember that acid can be neutralized with lye, and lye can be neutralized with acid. When combined in equal parts, they create water. By themselves, they are capable of causing huge destruction.



I have read in some places that separate cation/anion filters will not produce as much total DI water as mixed bed resin does, so I imagine that we won't get quite the capacity of mixed bed by regening this way and keeping the resin types separate. However, it *will* make the regeneration process itself much, much easier. No more resin separation, and the entire regen process is done while leaving the resin in it's filter cartridge. No more lost resin!



Commercial water treatment plants regenerate their deionizing resin in a similar manner over and over, in most cases only replacing the media after five years. So DONE CORRECTLY, you will regenerate the media to around 90% of it's original capacity.



If you get LESS DI water out of your regenerated media, please don't come crying to me, "it doesn't woooooorrrrrrkkkk.." Yes, it does. You did something wrong along the way. Your regen solutions must be mixed correctly, the resin needs to sit in the regen solution for at least 45 minutes, and your resin must be rinsed thoroughly. If you keep those things in mind, you should have good luck with this, and save some money.



Above all else, guys, PLEASE BE CAREFUL! It's not worth saving a buck or two if you get hurt along the way.



Edit: A few safety tips if you decide to try this.



When you are preparing your acid solution, add acid to the water. Don't add water to the acid.



When you are preparing your lye solution, I would recommend making a max of 32 oz at a time. Make it according to the post on page three. Follow those steps for mixing the water/lye, then cooling it off. Make sure it is cool, then carefully add it to a five gallon bucket. Continue making 32 oz at a time until you have enough in the bucket to completely cover (and then some) your filter cartridge that contains the anion resin.
 
Why are you only letting the TDS meter hit 20? AFAIK 30 ppm or less should be 'spotless' (this may not apply to everyone, for whatever reason).



I like the thought process behind using the actual CR Spotless canisters with a 5 gallon bucket, but now you are making HUGE batches of lye and acid baths. How do you cool down a batch of lye that big once you add it to the water?
 
SuperBee364- Heh heh, that's the "simplified" approach from the "laziest man", huh? This lazier man thinks that just changing the resin is enough of a PIA :o



I'll be interested to hear how the in-cartridge approach works...





Mindflux said:
Why are you only letting the TDS meter hit 20? AFAIK 30 ppm or less should be 'spotless' (this may not apply to everyone, for whatever reason)...



Yeah, there probably *are* a lot of variables here, but I know my (softened/filtered/not-that-bad) water starts to spot once I hit that 20ppm.
 
Mindflux said:
Why are you only letting the TDS meter hit 20? AFAIK 30 ppm or less should be 'spotless' (this may not apply to everyone, for whatever reason).



I like the thought process behind using the actual CR Spotless canisters with a 5 gallon bucket, but now you are making HUGE batches of lye and acid baths. How do you cool down a batch of lye that big once you add it to the water?



Yeah, 30 is the number that CRSpotless uses, but I have noticed some mild spotting at anything over 20. Plus, the amount of time between hitting 20 ppm and 30 ppm with my water is very short. Like around five minutes of pressure washing.



Your point about the lye bath is well-taken. It is going to take quite a while to get that big batch of lye cooled off to the point that you'd feel good about dunking a filter cartridge full of resin in it. Personally, I'm gonna make a big batch by making (and cooling off) a bunch of small batches, and adding them to the bucket as it's made/cooled off.
 
^^^^ I noticed the same rapid increase in PPM with my resin as well once it get into that range. I only have a few minutes at best.
 
Updated post one with all the steps and relevant info from later posts so that it's all together in one place.



Please be sure to visit the link towards the top of post one *first*. It explains the process in much more detail, and will make reading the rest of my stuff much easier to understand.
 
Supe,

Forgive me for ranting like a simple minded boob. What about splitting the anion/cation resin between 4 draw string nylon bags (or cheesecloth or something). That way you can remove the packed bags from the cartridges and 'recharge' them that way. This would enable you to pack one anion and one cation bag per canister effectively giving you a 'mixed bed' of resins.



That way when it comes to recharge them, you open the system up, remove the 4 bags.. and recharge them appropriately.



I don't know if this is even feasible as I don't know what the CR Spotless canisters look like. (I know, I need to open mine up).



But this would further simplify things and possibly (POSSIBLY) help you keep a mixed resin bed.
 
Essentially flux, you're suggesting Supe and everyone to use it like a tea bag, which is also a great idea assuming the bags don't corrode during the additional baths :)



My canister is the older model so I can't dip it. The bottom doesn't want to stay on so I might JB Weld it on there now...
 
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