Professional Detailer Feedback

B

Bobby G

New member
Pros (please, this is a professional detailer discussion only),



The moderators and I need your assistance and input on solving an issue and concern that we have.



Issue: Commercial promotion vs. Helping fellow Pros with business development



Concern: How to construct an environment for Pros to have business development discussions without breaking the "No Commercialism" rule?



As a general guideline, the reason we have a “no commercialism� rule is because the community leadership believes commercialism brings with it concerns of honesty and true representation. In other words, it’s difficult to know what is true when someone is motivated by income.



The commercialism concern is directly targeted at product sales, more so than service. However, it is difficult to differentiate the two. I try to always use myself as the measuring stick. Can I in good conscience use the forum for commercial activity? The urge is great… trust me… but I resist and don’t do it. Commercial activity must remain in the form of advertising, where members know that it is “sponsored advertisingâ€�.



We need your input and feedback on this issue. Help us make this forum area better for you.



db
 
Not much help I'm afraid. Though most play fair, I don't know how you could ever solve this issue other than with constant monitoring.
 
SUPER SHINE POLISH

Best car polish EVER buys it now for only $69.99 contains the best ingredients of peanut butter pledge, toothpaste for the whitest shine & shoe polish.



I don’t think there is a Commercial promotional bad guy out there what you are talking about? I just think its just people with a product that they repeat many of times because they love using it and they want others to enjoy too because they know it works for them, and Detailing products come and go.



America is Commercialism, Welcome to America



Commercialism in Detailing products is different then any other products out there. Pro Detailers knows what works and don’t work. It’s just a Love of a using a product that a Detailer uses and he turns others on to it. If you are into Helping other Detailers out and some are quite good at helping others out which takes time, skill & patients in doing so. And you love a product like SUPER SHINE POLISH you will tell everyone about it.



It’s also products with an “s� its suppliers that sells Detailing products and the Detailing products disturbers out there 98% of them are good hard working honest people and the other 2% is hard working honest people that has a agenda to sell no matter what it takes! Or was that the other way round in % wise? Which there is nothing wrong it that. It’s the American way. But the bottom line is this is a Private Site that cost time & money to run and its only fare that other Commercial disturber’s pay which I would think.
 
DavidB said:
Pros (please, this is a professional detailer discussion only),



The moderators and I need your assistance and input on solving an issue and concern that we have.



Issue: Commercial promotion vs. Helping fellow Pros with business development



Concern: How to construct an environment for Pros to have business development discussions without breaking the "No Commercialism" rule?



As a general guideline, the reason we have a “no commercialism� rule is because the community leadership believes commercialism brings with it concerns of honesty and true representation. In other words, it’s difficult to know what is true when someone is motivated by income.



The commercialism concern is directly targeted at product sales, more so than service. However, it is difficult to differentiate the two. I try to always use myself as the measuring stick. Can I in good conscience use the forum for commercial activity? The urge is great… trust me… but I resist and don’t do it. Commercial activity must remain in the form of advertising, where members know that it is “sponsored advertisingâ€�.



We need your input and feedback on this issue. Help us make this forum area better for you.



db
Click to expand...





I must be missing something! There is not much if any commercialism on this (Pro Forum).

Yes, I agree that product commercialism ( arguments) is why many people have been booted off Autopia. I love to talk about business much more then product because, I’m not a enthusiast or so I think. ;) I think most of the enthusiast know more about product then the pro’s with the exception of maybe a very few. I would expect less business Pro’s are on this (pro forum) then enthusiast?
 
doged said:
I must be missing something! There is not much if any commercialism on this (Pro Forum).
Click to expand...



Here's a simple issue, but not the only issue.



If you, a Professional detailer, post a picture of your new business cards or tri-fold brochure for feedback, it is not meant to be advertising, but we do not allow "other businesses" to make the exact same post.



See the problem?
 
Hey we all know I am big on a few products and it may seem to many that I am pushing these products, namely Menzerna, Optimum and also items from Top of the Line, so what I do now, when replying to others, is give them a choice of "like" products and/or give them a few websites/locations where they can purchase these products or tools.



I believe that this is the fairest solution, next to an outright ban of all product brand names being mentioned. I also believe that if anyone wishes to put up a "beta" version of their latest business card or new graphics for their work vehicle or store front that 1) either the business information must be blacked out or 2) an alias business name and information be used.



Such as: "John Doe Detailing 000-555-1223"



Another option is to have a "paid membership" offering for those wishing to use, say a forum signature which allows them to have their business name and info. It will be difficult to monitor and enforce rules that allow some form of advertising in one situation but then not allowed in another.....just alot of unnecessary moderating IMHO.



Anthony
 
DavidB:

I actually do have, what I think, is a good suggestion. I think you should change the way you have your sponsorships set up. The banner ad placement is sort of in a bad location at the bottom of the page. Maybe even offer some sponsors their own forums or allow them to communicate with the board members instead of just having a banner. That might draw more people to become sponsors instead of spamming or whatever. Also, a paid membership might be a great idea. If this is an issue have an annual fee to those that want to post their business cards and such. Maybe even allow them to post a digital format business card in their sig?
 
DavidB said:
Here's a simple issue, but not the only issue.



If you, a Professional detailer, post a picture of your new business cards or tri-fold brochure for feedback, it is not meant to be advertising, but we do not allow "other businesses" to make the exact same post.



See the problem?
Click to expand...



I see your point! The Pro Forum appears not to be broken so maybe it shouldn’t be fixed ?

You have your rules but people have to be constantly reminded of them and subjectively enforced .
 
As Autopia grows, more novices become enthusiasts. While most will continue to keep their vehicle at an Autopian Standard, some will have such passion for the art that they will decide to try to earn a living at the trade. The Entrepreneurs of Autopia could probably use a tool as powerful as the rest of the Appearance Section is to the Enthusiasts of Autopia.



The Pro Forum appears not to be broken so maybe it shouldn’t be fixed?
Click to expand...



I agree with your comment to some extent. This section of the forum has played a very important part in the success of my business. I know that there have been times where I have been genuinely interested in acquiring feedback from fellow professionals about marketing materials (ex.) and was unable to ask the question on the board because it was not permitted at the risk of it being interpreted as spam. There are some questions that cannot be remedied without the visual props classifying the post as solicitation, i.e newbies first business card, website, product line, etc. I feel that this forum can be somewhat restricting for what it is. I think that if this sections accessibility was limited to people making a living at the trade that the content quality may improve greatly, if possible to imagine.



Professionals Screen-names could be allocated an additional cookie (or whatever :) ) to allow them to browse the PF whereas enthusiasts would not be permitted. Of course this produces more work for you or the Mods to sort out whatever proof of business ownership but at least its one less folder to scope for spam :nixweiss



M2CFWIW.
 
A guy walks into a bar with a set of jumper cables. Everyone looks at him a bit strangely. He asks the bartender; 'can I have a drink'? The bartender replies; 'sure, as long as you don't start anything'.



That's basically what happens when it comes to posts that some people assume may appear to be commercial. Just because someone appears to be posting solely to represent their own business interests, it shouldn't automatically be assumed that they're posting just to draw attention to their own products or service.



It's usually pretty clear when someone gets a bit pushy about a particular brand of products. Actually, it gets somewhat humorous. When you think about it, most products work very much the same way. For example; most polishes usually work rather similarly, while most waxes work similarly too.



Of course, you really don't know for sure if the person has a hidden agenda for posting or if they are truely sharing information that they feel would be of value to the reader.
 
mirrorfinishman said:
Of course, you really don't know for sure if the person has a hidden agenda for posting or if they are truely sharing information that they feel would be of value to the reader.
Click to expand...



How true!



I guess I'm coming to the conclusion that no changes need to be made.
 
I'd just like to mention here that the initial reason this thread was started stemmed from recent posting of websites that contain commercial/business contact information.



We welcome all discussion pertaining to the profession of detailing but a reminder, again, the rules regarding to no posting of commercially oriented websites, photos, business cards, etc. always apply here as they do the rest of the forum. Such items must be removed or obscured before being posted.



Threads in conflict with this will be removed and those who repeat such posting will be reprimanded.



Please, engage in your pro discussion but kindly keep this policy in mind, thanks.
 
DavidB said:
Here's a simple issue, but not the only issue.



If you, a Professional detailer, post a picture of your new business cards or tri-fold brochure for feedback, it is not meant to be advertising, but we do not allow "other businesses" to make the exact same post.



See the problem?
Click to expand...



I do and completely understand it. I think most of the seasoned full-time pros on this site are pretty low key in that regard. The new start-ups and part time folks seem to have the greatest need for something like the above. I do not see an issue with it as long as it is kept within the confines of this specific forum and does not get abused.



Heck I had a friend that has frequented this site over the past year and said he never even opened the "pro" forum!!!
 
Bill D said:
I'd just like to mention here that the initial reason this thread was started stemmed from recent posting of websites that contain commercial/business contact information.



We welcome all discussion pertaining to the profession of detailing but a reminder, again, the rules regarding to no posting of commercially oriented websites, photos, business cards, etc. always apply here as they do the rest of the forum. Such items must be removed or obscured before being posted.



Threads in conflict with this will be removed and those who repeat such posting will be reprimanded.



Please, engage in your pro discussion but kindly keep this policy in mind, thanks.
Click to expand...





Hello again folks.



Please keep this policy in mind. If you wish to seek the feedback of your peers on your website, business card, etc,you MUST remove all prices and contact information. Thanks again.
 
well if commercialism in that manner is being conducted on this site its not doing a great job because i still use the same few products i always have.i think maybe if you do what danase did and sign on as a sponser maybe these guys should have a different avatar so that newcomes can identify and fully understand with complete assurance that this info hes recieving is genuine. maybe thier business logos as avs. i think alot guys would like to show off thier banners. jmo
 
Honestly, I can't imagine any pro coming to an enthusiast detailing board looking for business. After all, this board is mostly populated by people with a hands-on passion for detailing who'd no sooner pay someone else to touch their car than they'd allow a pedophile to babysit their children. That being said, I have noticed some spamming although I am not sure if it was intentional. Usually a warning ends it.
 
identify and fully understand with complete assurance that this info hes recieving is genuine.
Click to expand...

This opens a whole can of worms......Ive bought products from varying online places who offered advice i didnt agree with....(Pep Boys Syndrome, they sell, but dont use)

Ive gotten excellent advice from other detailers, which I used and was exactly what i needed. (Autopian Syndrome, they use but dont sell)

You can figure out the other various combination "Of products" not listed and derive your own conclusion......

So this body of water needs to be treaded in lightly.



(Ive been trying to reply to this thread for 1/2 an hr now, and have erased 3 replies.....lol)
 
I personally think that people on this board have been responsdable in that if someone has posted contact info it has been brought to the posters attention by another member of the community and it was then corrected. As for the product information goes I think we have seen some people discuss products often but only to enlighten other enthusiasts. I also think the prior idea of being able to pay a monthly fee to be able to include some business info in our signatures is a good one. By doing this a pros information gets out there, the forum benefits from the membership fee, but mostly people can clearly see who the pros are out there and they can trend it for themselves in some way if some may have a hidden agenda to push certain products.
 
I'm all in favor of having a system where the pros pitch in to help fund the site if they want to plug their business. Even with having to pay a little, I find the site to be a pretty darn good deal.
 
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