Porsche Carrera Meteor Grey

6

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I'm thinking of buying an 02 Inferno Red Pt Cruiser and I was just wondering if anyone has any detailing experience with them? I know I owned an 87 Dodge and the paitn quality was a disgrace and several mid 90s dodges seen had bad paint quality to. (By saiying bad I mean flaking and clear coat peeling)



Anyone know if Chrysler has improved any?
 
I had a 1998 Chrysler. My 1998 looked brand new when I got rid of it this year. The dealer thought it was a 2000 model. No fading or peeling whatsoever. I have a 2001 Chrysler and the shine is outstanding. I believe, according to Ron Ketcham, Chryslers clear coat is a preferred clear coat.
 
PPG is the provider for most DCX assembly plants.

The years from 80 up until the mid 90's saw many of the lower and mid range Chrysler products experience clearcoat failure.

Not enough film build of clear, chemistry of the resin system was poor, and Chyrsler didn't want to pay for sufficent UV blockers in the clear(very expensive component).

There are a ton of DCX products that are 91, 2,3's that are loosing the clear now.

The PT gets plenty of film build, using the 1K clear, with a film build of 1.8 to 2 mil. Now, they are moving to the new 1K+ and believe that has been used since early this year.

Since it is an entry level vehicle (based on Neon platform) there will be minor cosmetic flaws, but to be expected in that price vehicle.

The only major concern we have worked with DCX on regarding the vehicle was the "B" pillar covers, the black piece. They were easily etched and discolored by enviormental pollutants and strong car wash solutions. That concern has been corrected since early this year.

Since sales have slowed and production has been increased the are some that are on dealers lots with IFO, ferrous oxides and etching. But only the normal amount, just like any manufacturer.

If you would like to actually see how the PT and other DCX products have the full paint system applied, photos with explainations , couresty of PPG, visit our web site, www.autoint.com and look in the Tech Tips Section, "how a modern clearcoat paint system is applied", just click on the box.

Since there are numerous photos etc, it is done a page at a time starting with a photo showing the layout of an entire paint portion of an assembly plant. Then it goes forward from that.

The washing of the bare body, e-coat application, primer application, base coat application, clear application, explainations of the various clears used around the world, etc, etc.

Ketch

:cool:
 
Cool I'm going to go see what type of trade in I can get on the Formula today. I'll keep you guys updated :)
 
I just realized that I left out one important thing.



The new 1K+ clears are much more "etch" resistant, but this chemistry change in the clear created another concern.



They mar very easily. Wipe them with a rough towel, old mitt and you will see the marring very easily.



Clay on these clears, mar the hell out of them.



You will have to follow up polishing of the surface.



These are the new clears that detailers who are uninformed are bitching about.



They are screaming about "the paint is soft, it is not cured", but that is not the case. They need to get some education from other than the guy on the supplier truck and keep up with the changes in the clears and their techniques of handling them.



There is a new clear from PPG that will be applied later this year on DCX and GM's higher line vehicles that will not mar as easily, but forget using the normal polishes, etc that one have been using.



This new stuff is harder than the hubs of hell!



We have a new generation of compounds/polishng at PPG Global paint lab going through testing right now in order to address this change.



Entire new abrasive chemistry, does not rely on the old aluminum oxides, crystaline silicas, amphous silica's for abrasion.



Trick stuff, Maynard!!





Ketch



:eek:
 
Ron, does that mean less swirling and easier marring? (but marring is okay because it just needs to be polished off)



I guess my question is what affect does it have on swirls and how we usually get them off (3M products)?
 
I understand why the new paint formulations will need re-formulated abrasives/polishes . . . will traditional waxes and current synthetic sealants still be compatible with the new clearcoats, or will that technology see a major shift as well?



Curious,

Tort
 
Marring and swirls are one and the same.



Marring is by diffinition, abrading of the surface (just one of them) and swirls are minor mar marks in the surface, a scratch is marring, but depth is the factor there.



What we have seen is that there are no consumer available products available at present which will address future marring on the new clear easily.



Really tough stuff!



3M is tearing it's hair out regarding this. They patented a new manmade abrasive system, had been using it in the plants on line and is a great abrasive system, but not effective on this new clear.



We have been involved with Ford regarding the testing of various manufacturers compound/polishing systems and not one has met their specs for performance, with the exception of our new test material.



I sent a message to our plant last Friday, my head chemist, to produce another 5 gallons of one version of the compound.



PPG wants it to send to paint engineers at DCX, GM, Ford etc to show that there is an effective product coming down the line to address the concern. This is in addition to the work that we have been doing with the same engineers.



We have also sent some samples to VW, BMW, and some others who are moving to this new clear. Don't have to send to MB, as they share the same new paint test lab in Windsor with DCX.



Of the Japanense imports, only Mazda is going to move to it. The others perfer to use Nippon Paints clears and are not ready to change. (good buddy system).





Ketch

:eek:
 
Makes sense: less marring (swirls) is due to stronger (harder) clear.



Does this mean that all of us Autopians will have less troubles in keep a black car swirl free. Because the clear should be more durable and any flaws will be due to sturdier foreign substances rather then, lets say using a sponge to clean your car with a one bucket method (a previously obvious no no).



I mean there's a reason why the 3M preferred method won't help you solve your swirl problem. But for the same reason, the problem should be easily more be prevented by the harder clear right?



(Just thinking out loud again)
 
Hi, Just did a full detail on the Porsche yesterday. Some points..
Meguires 105 - Un-believeable! With a white pad and some patience, PC7424 on 5-6 you can get out just about any sleak or swirl, with pressure. Release the pressure and the let the machine do the work, it will finish near LSP ready. Frankly I didnt use the 205 or the 106fa. I went right to 085rd.
Menzerna 085rd - Even more unbelieveable! Black pad, work time was limitless without dusting. Let the PC7424 do the work and it jewels beautifully! The shiniest shine I've ever seen. Unreal. Made me wish my car was black (temporarily...)
Blackfire Wet Diamond - Lets put it this way, I'll never use a carnuba again. The slickest most "finishing" finish I've ever seen. Outstanding results. Went on like a dream with the flat tangerine pad. Only issue was - it never seemed to haze and was not dry when I began to remove it (after I did the whole car). Wiping it off just smeared it around for the 1st couple of passes. The instructions on the bottle should be changed. I applied one coat yesterday @ 3pm and the 2nd at 1am this morning. The 1st coat didnt come off that easily and the 2nd was a little more difficult. Maybe the temperature was not optimal (my garage was roughly 55deg). Also, the product seemed to introduce a major amount of static electricity. Thank god I didnt do the job in my garage during a thunderstorm. I probably would NOT be here to tell about it. Dust attracts afterwards quicker than after any other product. Still love it though..
Blackfire Midnight sun - Well like I said, i'll never use a carnuba again. Totally unnecessary on a medium grey color after using BFWD. Seemed to make the surface milky (not wet). Took away the superslickness. I will 085rd the car again and re-apply the BFWD, maybe 3 coats this time. The wax smells nice though..

Poor Boys Bold and bright - In my opinion the best dressing I've ever used and could probably double as a mixer for pina-coladas.. Thats the stuff on my tires..

Thanks for looking. I am glad to be able to share something around here. I tore my Tricep a month ago and now my left arm is religated to being my jeweling arm, if you know what I mean...

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Joe D.
 
Joe,

I am surprised to hear about your difficulties with BFWD. Maybe you applied it too thick. You should try to apply very thin. You can either wipe on, and then wipe off, or wipe it on and let it dry to a haze and let it sit between 15-30 minutes, and then wipe off. This is the method that I use. I found BFWD to be one of the easiest products to use that I have ever tried.

As for your pictures, try posting them to something like photo bucket, and download from there.

What part of NJ are you from? I am in Morris County.
 
You applied BFWD with a tangerine pad? Thats a mild cutting pad, I would use M205 with or maybe Powerfinish. That could be the issue #1, you sure it wasn't a gold or red pad, those are ideal to apply sealants.

As for the streaking many including myself have had issues. My best way of going about it is to apply thin and let it cure fully, thats usually 30minutes, on some cars longer. Do a swipe with you finger and if it basically cakes off with no smear its cured.

Go back with some ice cold bottled water in a sprayer and do a wipedown with that, should help dissipate the smearing on most any wax or sealant.
 
Max405 said:
I have a bunch of pictures that I tried to post. They come out as thumbnails. Maybe someone can help me with those..

Joe D.
Click to expand...


Suggest you upload your pics to a hosting site. I like Photobucket. Its free. Then copy the link in Photobucket and paste it into your posting. Its an extra step, but once you've done it a couple times its pretty easy and fast.
 
MB Fan said:
Suggest you upload your pics to a hosting site. I like Photobucket. Its free. Then copy the link in Photobucket and paste it into your posting. Its an extra step, but once you've done it a couple times its pretty easy and fast.
Click to expand...

AS MB said, Photobucket is great. In fact, I have a "canned" response that I saved because I was suggesting it to so many people on another forum I frequent:

Robbo's canned answer said:
Go to www.photobucket.com and register for a free account (just like you did for truthindetailing).

Log in to your photobucket account and right in the middle of the page is a big button that says "UPLOAD". Click that and find your pictures on your computer.

After you have found all you want to load click the select button.

Now, each picture will be in your photobucket account with 4 boxes of text beside (or below) them. Click on the text in the box labeled "IMG Code" and that will copy the text you need.

Come to your thread and paste the text in your reply and the picture will show up.

Be sure and hit return between each string of text you paste so your pictures don't show up side by side and make the reply wider than most people's screen.

Should take you between 5 and 10 minutes to set up and get the pictures to your thread.... from then on you can go from camera in hand to pictures in your thread in far less time than it took me to type this reply
Click to expand...
 
Street Dreams said:
You applied BFWD with a tangerine pad? Thats a mild cutting pad,

As for the streaking many including myself have had issues. My best way of going about it is to apply thin and let it cure fully, thats usually 30minutes, on some cars longer. Do a swipe with you finger and if it basically cakes off with no smear its cured.

Go back with some ice cold bottled water in a sprayer and do a wipedown with that, should help dissipate the smearing on most any wax or sealant.
Click to expand...

David,
You are right. Its a gold pad. I will try the ice cold water trick. Thanks, I appreciate it.
 
bmw5541 said:
Joe,

I am surprised to hear about your difficulties with BFWD. Maybe you applied it too thick. You should try to apply very thin. You can either wipe on, and then wipe off, or wipe it on and let it dry to a haze and let it sit between 15-30 minutes, and then wipe off. This is the method that I use. I found BFWD to be one of the easiest products to use that I have ever tried.

As for your pictures, try posting them to something like photo bucket, and download from there.

What part of NJ are you from? I am in Morris County.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your help Barry. I just 085rd'd the car from top to bottom to get rid of what was on there. I didnt like the carnuba topper. I re-applied the wet diamond with the GOLD pad like I did yesterday (gold, tangerine.. Joe D, Idiot - all the same). I will give it a total of a 1/2 hour to cure. Then I'll remove it. The kit that I bought didnt have a guide (that I found on the PAC site earlier) and the instructions on the bottle said do one panel at a time. Apply and remove. Didn't say anything about the 30 minute set time.

Yeah, I still live in Warren Nj. Its a nice town. When I was taking the pictures, my neighbor flew by doing about 100 mph in his Murcielago LP640.

See ya, Joe D.
 
When applying BFWD, try this.. Use two SMALL drops on the gold pad and apply on speed 4. Apply thinly to about 1/4 of the Porsche, half of the hood, fender, roof, and half of the door. A little bit goes a LONG way. If you are not sure if you still are applying the sealant (the gray may make it hard to see the coverage), run the machine over the window.

As soon as you are done with 1/4 of the car (or need to reload the pad) wipe the residue off immediately. Work the next 1/4 of the car and remove, etc. Just apply it 'whisper thin.'

As far as the wax, how long did you let the sealant cure before application. Cold weather is going to dramatically slow down the bonding of the polymers (hence taking longer to dry). I don't think it is really a problem with the wax so much as it was a problem with the sealant underneath.

Here are some suggestions.

Menzerna PO85rd uses a real thick oil that gives the polish such a long working time. In cold weather it is going to be even harder to remove the oils after polishing, and it might be impossible or hard to see them after polishing. Once your microfiber becomes loaded with the oils you tend to push them around paint vs. pick them off the paint.

After polishing with 85rd I would rewash the car using a strong solution of soap and then dry using a quick detailer with some cleaning power (I love Meguiar's M34 as it doesn't leave anything behind and helps displace the oils that can still be there, even after a wash).

Given the color and the difficulty in seeing oil film on the color, I would guess that this is likely the problem.
 
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