Polymers vs. traditional waxes????

M

mafpo

New member
I have been detailing cars for a very long time. I have long been a big believer in traditional waxes - particularly Zymol. I have a silver Lexus LS430 (2002 but it looks brand new). I use Zymol Carbon on it, and every second waxing I use Zymol Destiny on the hood and trunk (also use Destiny on my motorcycles).



Wife got an Audi A8 this summer, and it's a beast. She doesn't much care about cars (I was looking at the Audi for me, but she fell in love with it..she's never expressed an interest in a car, so she got it). The A8 is a beast...it's huge!!.



It's also white, so Zymol's a little harder to to use (more work, but also can't always see what's not taken off), so I decided to be brave & try something new.



I have always heard that polymers are very bad for your paint long term - they dry it out. But, I looked in to Wolfgang products, and I liked what I read. Also called them, and they told me that the polymer was neutralized, so it did no damage to the paint.



I polished the A8 with their pre-wax cleaner, and then applied their sealant. It feels great, but it doesn't last like they claim, things stick to the lower sections behind the tires more than they should, but the finish looks beautiful.



The anti-Zymol crowd always beats on me for - "it doesn't last long," which is okay, I like waxing my car. I wax a panel or two every time I was..progressive waxing.



Do modern day polymer products damage paint after long term use? Also, I've heard a lot about Ultima - spray and walk away......is that a real deal?



Thanks for your insight & input.



p.s. The Wolfgang does a really good job on the mag wheels - most of the time the pressure washer will knock off the brake dust.
 
You will hear as many different opinions about which products are the best as there are people on this website. However, I don't think anyone can dispute the fact that Zaino products are one of the best synthetic products out there and that a properly prepared finish with Z2pro or Z5pro will last a good 6 months. They have one of the best websites--full of information and if you want to talk to Sal the owner, he is very informative. Zaino Store The products are on the expensive side but well worth it.



Another line that performs as well as Zaino and is less expensive are DuraGloss products. Duragloss Car Care Products 601 with 105 is their top of the line and is very durable. Again, if you call you can talk to the owner if you like.



Good Luck!
 
thanx for your input! those are two beautiful cars with timeless designs and lots of cool technology you own. glad the lady is enjoying her audi.

i'm sure some of the real big pro's with a lot of "know-how" will chime in to help you out, but my personal take is no- sealants should be fine to use on your car. carnauba waxes are great, and i have more love for them than sealants, but i truly appreciate a good sealant and always use them as well.

i think the only reason so many people seem to have a bad taste in their mouth when talking about zymol isn't because it's a bad product. i think it's the opposite. i think zymol makes a lot of GREAT products, but then makes the bad move of over-hyping them. thats the same problem some people seem to have with swissvax. i'm sure they make great wax, but when u try to claim a 'nuba will last a year, or get into the always-lame "our wax is _____ % pure white carnauba" game, many people frown due to the shady marketing. i know i've never had 4 let alone 6 months of good durability (heavy beading / good depth) from supernatural but i still love it
 
IMO, the most important element here is, you love detailing often.

Therefore, carnaubas are OK.



I also feel that many detailing products have outrageous claims, and we, either as consumers or professionals, shd always take it with a pinch of salt. Must always test it out extensively before embracing any brand/s.



IMO, in hot and humid weather, even Zaino's durability claims does not impress me.

It certainly doesn't last for months in blistering hot and humid tropical weather.

I've been using it since 2004 on countless cars, and can prove it. That's why, i always top it with something more lasting. Nothing can replace frequent re-application...unless you're using one of those new-age coatings from Japan or something like that.
 
gigondaz said:
I've been using it since 2004 on countless cars, and can prove it. That's why, i always top it with something more lasting.
Click to expand...



I don't use Zaino, but I'm curious what you top it with that is "more lasting"?
 
gigondaz said:
IMO, in hot and humid weather, even Zaino's durability claims does not impress me.

.
Click to expand...



I'm not a Zaino biggot or anything as I use a number of products, but I recommended ZAIO with a topcoat of Z2pro to a friend who lives in Naples, FL. His black Mercedes is parked outside 24/7 all year long and he gets 6 months with just a couple of Z8 touch ups.



I doubt any carnuba would hold up for more than a few weeks under those conditions.
 
mafpo- Yeah, A8s are kinda big (my wife drives a '00).



Nah, sealants won't hurt the paint but many sealants don't last/protect any better that/as well as some waxes.



FWIW, I use UPP on my '01 S8 for the looks and slickness, and it needs redone a *LOT* more often than my wife's car, on which I use waxes (usually Meg's #16). Hers resists bug/bird etching better too.



FWIW#2, if I had a *white* Audi, I'd probably use FK1000P on it, and I'm not a real fanatic about either side of the sealant/wax debate (used to use Pinnacle Souveran on my white VW station wagon).



EDIT: oh, and Welcome to Autopia!
 
I use "traditional" carnauba waxes on my current vehicles, and I've found that if you are very good at waxing them at least once a month, you can get very good durability from the finishes. I currently use p21s on my daily driver which is not garaged, and its wax finish lasts from Spring to Spring. I exclusively use an Authentic Zymol on the signature car, which is garaged, and (perhaps by default) I get an entire year's protection out if it.



It will depend on your climate's condition, specifically the amount of direct sunlight that the car will get, that will determine how long your lsp will protect the car. I've also found that you don't necessarily have to have tight beading in order to still get protection from your applied wax. Also, be very careful in that you use wax friendly car wash solutions, as some will strip wax. Hope this helps.
 
mafpo said:
I have been detailing cars for a very long time. I have long been a big believer in traditional waxes - particularly Zymol. I have a silver Lexus LS430 (2002 but it looks brand new). I use Zymol Carbon on it, and every second waxing I use Zymol Destiny on the hood and trunk (also use Destiny on my motorcycles).



Wife got an Audi A8 this summer, and it's a beast. She doesn't much care about cars (I was looking at the Audi for me, but she fell in love with it..she's never expressed an interest in a car, so she got it). The A8 is a beast...it's huge!!.



It's also white, so Zymol's a little harder to to use (more work, but also can't always see what's not taken off), so I decided to be brave & try something new.



I have always heard that polymers are very bad for your paint long term - they dry it out. But, I looked in to Wolfgang products, and I liked what I read. Also called them, and they told me that the polymer was neutralized, so it did no damage to the paint.



I polished the A8 with their pre-wax cleaner, and then applied their sealant. It feels great, but it doesn't last like they claim, things stick to the lower sections behind the tires more than they should, but the finish looks beautiful.



The anti-Zymol crowd always beats on me for - "it doesn't last long," which is okay, I like waxing my car. I wax a panel or two every time I was..progressive waxing.



Do modern day polymer products damage paint after long term use? Also, I've heard a lot about Ultima - spray and walk away......is that a real deal?



Thanks for your insight & input.



p.s. The Wolfgang does a really good job on the mag wheels - most of the time the pressure washer will knock off the brake dust.
Click to expand...



Yes, Ultima is the reasl deal. Applied in August 08 and its still protecting. i did 3 coats over a 2 week period and if properly preped you will get long life, deep shine and easy maintenance. Notyhiing sticks to this stuff. I used Rejex on the wheels and my car is set.



I live in NY and i did an ONR wash today and the caer looks awesome.



Jeff
 
Zymol folks told me that I need to re-wax every month & re-prep paint at least every six months.



My fear of polymers like Zaino, Ultima, etc. is that they last and bead for a long time, but they don't really protect the paint...sort of like putting a piece of glass over carpet...eventually the carpet fades anyway.



Trying the Wolfgang on the Audi since it is white (white is resistant to fading), garaged (both cars are), and she doesn't drive much, so it's in a good part of the day. Also,I talked to the Wolfgang people, and he sounded pretty convincing i.e. he put my "silicone" fears to rest by telling me that they "neutralize the silicone affect by altering the polymer.



So, as for Ultima - does it really protect or just easy to use, looks pretty, and beads for a a long time?



p.s. I never buy the "nothing sticks to it bs - if that were true - a. why would it stick to the car paint upon application. b. why would road grime etc. from driving in the rain stick to the bottom of the car behind the wheels?
 
Stick with the Zymol. Nobody makes a better wax. I haven't found a polymer paint sealant that offers the same "glow" that Zymol does.





John
 
blk45 said:
I don't use Zaino, but I'm curious what you top it with that is "more lasting"?
Click to expand...



I always top Zaino Z2Pro with Soft99 Xaqua, as it has way better durability + fantastic water beads that my customers love. With any slight movement of the car, the round crystalline beads just roll away, making for a car that looks quite clean even after a drive in the storm.
 
pwaug said:
I'm not a Zaino biggot or anything as I use a number of products, but I recommended ZAIO with a topcoat of Z2pro to a friend who lives in Naples, FL. His black Mercedes is parked outside 24/7 all year long and he gets 6 months with just a couple of Z8 touch ups.



I doubt any carnuba would hold up for more than a few weeks undo those conditions.
Click to expand...

I'll second that. ZAIO with a top coat of Z2pro is very durable, including in hot and humid climates. I recommended the same to a friend in Houston, and his 5 to 6 month experience is similar to your friend in Florida. I get long life with Zaino through hot summers, and salt covered roads in winter, here in Michigan.



That said, to each his own.
 
[quote name='Len_A']I'll second that. ZAIO with a top coat of Z2pro is very durable, including in hot and humid climates. I recommended the same to a friend in Houston, and his 5 to 6 month experience is similar to your friend in Florida. I get long life with Zaino through hot summers, and salt covered roads in winter, here in Michigan.



Same for me in CT. Summer to winter nothing lasts as long as Zaino. As far as the Zymols and other expensive waxes they just dont last. The waxes that last are usually synthetic like 1000p & Collinite .
 
Do the products like Zaino, Ultima, etc. penetrate the paint, so it is a pain for the body shop to repaint the panel if it needs painting?
 
I'm testing the most durable products, Klasse or Zaino Pro line is currently blowing everything away including all the Collinite. I'm going to post the test when I get around to it, but it appears all the collinite and clear seal failed before Z2Pro. Z5Pro and KAIO/SG.





Products I'm testingwaxsealants





I like waxes and try to justify using them, however every time I actually consider whats best for the paint, I use the polymers. They are more beneficial for paint, and they wont harm the paint.
 
mafpo said:
Do the products like Zaino, Ultima, etc. penetrate the paint, so it is a pain for the body shop to repaint the panel if it needs painting?
Click to expand...



I have zero experience with Ultima (and I don't use Zaino myself) but I have it on reliable authority that Zaino does *not* cause problems like that. My best painter uses and recommends Zaino, and he's not the kind of guy to make his job harder ;)



IME only the nastiest of cheap silicon products cause problems. I've simply *never* had my LSPs penetrate to the point where my body/paint guy encountered a problem. Even the silicon containing older version of 3M Showcar Paste Wax cleans off with no problem.
 
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