Polishing

S

sofresh

New member
sup everyone I'm new to polishing, will detailing period.



So since polishing takes a real thin layer of the clearcoat off...how much polishing will it take to completely remove the clear coat? I'm not trying to remove the clear here lol but i'm wanting to know if you do polishing 1-2x a year how many years will it take to damage the paint? I'm talking about factory paint here.



I might just be paranoid since i read that it takes a layer off the clear.



Everyone says start off with the less aggressive pad/polish first then move to more aggressive pad/polish if needed. What i'm wanting to know is how many applications do you do before you move to a more aggressive pad/polish if it didn't remove the swirls etc.?



Ok, if i started with the 106ff with the white pad and it didn't do anything, i move to my orange pad with SIP...

Would I have to clean the white pad before it dries up since im not using it 'til i finish the car with the orange/SIP?

Just curious because I've read that you need to clean the pads right after use...soak them in soap and water or snappy cleaner.







What I have on order are:

Flex 3401

PFW

Orange Pad

White Pad

Black Pad

Blue Pad

Menz 106ff

Menz SIP





Thanks in advance for helping me out!
 
sofresh- It's not a matter of taking off all the clearcoat; you can only remove a tiny amount (0.0003-0.0005") before you precipitate failure.



The good news is that gentle/reasonable polishing won't take off that much even if you do it a few times a year for many years.



But the best thing is to not mar the paint in the first place so you don't have to polish it very often. Easier said than done however....



The second best thing is to know when to say "good enough" so you don't take off a whole lot of clear in an attempt to attain perfection, especially as that perfection usually won't last all that long; you'll mar it again and be back where you started in a few months (except that you won't have as much clearcoat left to work with).
 
Judging by the products you have on order, you have defnitely done your searching/researching/reading. BigJim would be proud. ;)



The "use the least aggressive method first" mantra is a good one to follow, but... Using a Flex with an orange pad and SIP isn't very aggressive. It's a good place to start for *correction*. A white pad and 106 is a good place to start for *final polishing*. So apply the mantra for the appropriate step that you're on; orange and SIP is a good "least aggressive" place to start for *correction*, and white foam/106 is a good "least aggressive" to start with for final cleanup/polishing. This has all been a very long worded way of saying, "start out with the orange and SIP." :)



I would:



Use SIP/PFW for multiple applications until happy with the correction. (I know I said orange is in accordance with the mantra. PFW is more aggressive, but will save you from having to do as many applications as you would have to do with the orange for the same results.)



Use 106/white until I was happy with the cleanup.



Use 106/black until happy with the gloss. You might want to consider getting a true "jeweling" polish like 85RD or FPII to *really* amp the finish.



You have ordered, IMO, the very best DA/pad/polish setup you can get. The only thing I'd add is the aforementioned jeweling polish. Oh, and maybe a strong compound like Megs M95 or M105.



What LSP are you gonna use?
 
sofresh said:
What I have on order are:

Flex 3401

PFW

Orange Pad

White Pad

Black Pad

Blue Pad

Menz 106ff

Menz SIP
Click to expand...



nice purchase - its basically what i've been using for the last 2 months as my first machine polish experience. did a jeep (test car), a bmw and VW all w/ good results. SIP w/ orange and 106FF w/ white, jetseal 109 w/ black. bmw got a carnuba topper too.



i'd second what bee is saying, as i was able to remove 90% of the marring but trying to get that last 10%. as such i'm looking to go a little more aggressive next time and use M95 w/ orange or PFW. also thinking of adding a third polish step for the bmw, FPII w/ black pad to jewel the paint.



as far as removing too much clearcoat, if you are really concerned purchase a paint gauge and do before and after readings for each detail you do. or find someone local (maybe someone on this forum) or slip a detail shop $20 and have them provide the numbers for you.
 
SuperBee364 said:
Judging by the products you have on order, you have defnitely done your searching/researching/reading. BigJim would be proud. ;)



The "use the least aggressive method first" mantra is a good one to follow, but... Using a Flex with an orange pad and SIP isn't very aggressive. It's a good place to start for *correction*. A white pad and 106 is a good place to start for *final polishing*. So apply the mantra for the appropriate step that you're on; orange and SIP is a good "least aggressive" place to start for *correction*, and white foam/106 is a good "least aggressive" to start with for final cleanup/polishing. This has all been a very long worded way of saying, "start out with the orange and SIP." :)



I would:



Use SIP/PFW for multiple applications until happy with the correction. (I know I said orange is in accordance with the mantra. PFW is more aggressive, but will save you from having to do as many applications as you would have to do with the orange for the same results.)



Use 106/white until I was happy with the cleanup.



Use 106/black until happy with the gloss. You might want to consider getting a true "jeweling" polish like 85RD or FPII to *really* amp the finish.



You have ordered, IMO, the very best DA/pad/polish setup you can get. The only thing I'd add is the aforementioned jeweling polish. Oh, and maybe a strong compound like Megs M95 or M105.



What LSP are you gonna use?
Click to expand...



Yeah i been reading up on all this first time using a buffer :)



what is mantra?

so i can do SIP/Orange or PFW (if orange aint enough) , then 106ff/White, THEN finish again with 106ff/black? is white/106ff enough tho?



what speed should i do all this with?



Is the 85RD or FPII like a chemical polish or is it a cutting polish too? I figure the 106ff would be the last step didn't know you can do another step to make it glossier, i figure that would be the shiniest it'll get



For the stronger compound do i use the FPW?



Im sealing off with Jetseal and PB Nattys. Didn't want to spend a lot on wax

I was thinking about zaino waxes but don't know which one to get, i figure ill be happy with the results no matter what i get due to the fact i been shopping OTC products...



Thanks for the help man



Accumulator said:
sofresh- It's not a matter of taking off all the clearcoat; you can only remove a tiny amount (0.0003-0.0005") before you precipitate failure.



The good news is that gentle/reasonable polishing won't take off that much even if you do it a few times a year for many years.



But the best thing is to not mar the paint in the first place so you don't have to polish it very often. Easier said than done however....



The second best thing is to know when to say "good enough" so you don't take off a whole lot of clear in an attempt to attain perfection, especially as that perfection usually won't last all that long; you'll mar it again and be back where you started in a few months (except that you won't have as much clearcoat left to work with).
Click to expand...



how do you not mar the paint? what is mar anyways?



so polishing a car twice a year for 10 years on oem paint is ok? just trying to get an idea what polishing does to the car.





haper said:
nice purchase - its basically what i've been using for the last 2 months as my first machine polish experience. did a jeep (test car), a bmw and VW all w/ good results. SIP w/ orange and 106FF w/ white, jetseal 109 w/ black. bmw got a carnuba topper too.



i'd second what bee is saying, as i was able to remove 90% of the marring but trying to get that last 10%. as such i'm looking to go a little more aggressive next time and use M95 w/ orange or PFW. also thinking of adding a third polish step for the bmw, FPII w/ black pad to jewel the paint.



as far as removing too much clearcoat, if you are really concerned purchase a paint gauge and do before and after readings for each detail you do. or find someone local (maybe someone on this forum) or slip a detail shop $20 and have them provide the numbers for you.
Click to expand...



good to hear, how did you apply the jetseal? machine or by hand?
 
Purewatre Dzine said:
I must also throw in a question, what is an LSP ?



Also, Whats PFW?
Click to expand...



LSP = Last Step Product

and the second one would like to know too. ( New here and first post:woot2: )
 
sofresh said:
what is mantra?
Click to expand...



Words chanted as in invocation and/or a prayer; in this case, something you say over and over again to get an idea into your head.

so i can do SIP/Orange or PFW (if orange aint enough) , then 106ff/White, THEN finish again with 106ff/black? is white/106ff enough tho?
Click to expand...



I bet the additional 106FF/black would be a good idea.

what speed should i do all this with?
Click to expand...



I haven't used a Flex, but I'd do it at the highest speed at which the pads still seem to work right (if/when it's too high you'll know it).



Is the 85RD or FPII like a chemical polish or is it a cutting polish too? I figure the 106ff would be the last step didn't know you can do another step to make it glossier, i figure that would be the shiniest it'll get
Click to expand...



They are (very mildly) mechanically abrasive. I've improved upon 106FF finishes to a considerable degree by using milder products for the final polish.





For the stronger compound do i use the FPW?
Click to expand...



If you need to or if you simply prefer it over the foam cutting pads.

how do you not mar the paint? what is mar anyways?
Click to expand...



Marring = scratches/swirls/etc. You avoid marring by not moving abrasive [stuff] across paint under pressure. Most marring happens when people wash; they press the dirt against the paint and then move it under pressure.



so polishing a car twice a year for 10 years on oem paint is ok? just trying to get an idea what polishing does to the car.
Click to expand...



Nobody can really guarantee that *any* polishing is OK because there are just so many variables. I have original paint that's been polished many times and is still OK, but I'm pretty careful about this stuff and I don't do more polishing than is necessary. IMO if you have to polish more than once a year you're doing something wrong (note that it took me *many* years to get my wash regimen sorted out so that I don't have to polish more often than that).



If you *really* plan to keep a vehicle for a long time you oughta buy a thickness gauge and keep track of the paint thickness. The few hundred bucks it'd cost are nothing compared to the cost of a paintjob.
 
Supe couldn't have said it any better. I will mention one thing though. You have to consider what kind of paint you'll be working on and its condition. If it's paint that's soft like Honda paint or just about any Japanese vehicle, chances are SIP and an orange/PFW pad may be too much to start with. In fact, you might just be fine with 106ff and a white foam pad for correction. On the flip side, if you encounter hard paints like Audi or most other German vehicles, chances are SIP and an orange/PFW may not be enough to start with.



Either way, it's always something to consider when starting off on any vehicle.
 
Thanks Accumulator that helped me out a lot! hopefully ill used the flex for a year then move up to a rotary, i have a friend that does body/paint work. he said he would teach me with a rotary...



He usually wetsands paint after a paint job then buffs with compound then with a lighter polish...but he does it outside in the shade...i thought you needed the sun or halogen light to see your work...he just open a detailed shop but im kinda scared to bring it to him...he got all his stuff from a local detailing supplies place with a brand name gator for the detailing shop. how are you suppose to know if a detailer is good?





Denzil



yeah im working on an acura and a nissan 350z i guess these paints are soft...

is there a chart somewhere? ive seen one but forgot to save it...
 
sofresh said:
.i have a friend that does body/paint work. he said he would teach me with a rotary...



He usually wetsands paint after a paint job then buffs with compound then with a lighter polish...but he does it outside in the shade...i thought you needed the sun or halogen light to see your work...he just open a detailed shop but im kinda scared to bring it to him.... how are you suppose to know if a detailer is good?...
Click to expand...



Unfortunately it's often hard to know if a detailer is good until they do a vehicle for you, and even then you often don't know how well it really turned out for a few months (fillers/concealers can hide crappy work).



I don't want to badmouth your friend, but IME: Polishing outside is tricky compared to working in a controlled-environment shop (but plenty of people here do OK outside). You can't inspect for holograms (flaws from rotary work) in the shade, it takes direct sunlight. And *I* always need nice bright light to see what I'm doing. Still, he could be very good. I'd ask him about all the stuff that has you wondering...but beware if he blows off your concerns with "eh..it's not a problem man..." types of answers ;)
 
haha i mean he uses a dewalt uses 3m compound, now some gator stuff...who knows, i don't even know much about it just now learning



another question...



after polishing do i need to wash the car for the sealant? should sealant be applied by hand or buffer? i know wax should be done by hand
 
Wax by hand or buffer, sealant by hand or buffer. No right or wrong, just preference.



Don't have to wash after polishing, but some do if alot of dust is left over.



May want to spritz the panels with some Isopropyl Alcohol and wipe them down to remove any leftover oils that may be filling from the polishes.
 
Note that IPA/Isopropyl alcohol *is* "rubbing alcohol"..under either name it comes in various strengths. IMO stronger is better but some people like to dilute it.



It oughta be safe for paint as it's kinda mild as solvents go. IMO PrepSol is stronger and it's *made* for this so I wouldn't worry about the IPA.



Much as I like doing stuff by machine, I find it hard to apply sealants thin enough that way; I do sealants better by hand. Waxes I prefer doing by machine, but hey, that's just a personal preference.
 
Accumulator said:
Note that IPA/Isopropyl alcohol *is* "rubbing alcohol"..under either name it comes in various strengths. IMO stronger is better but some people like to dilute it.



It oughta be safe for paint as it's kinda mild as solvents go. IMO PrepSol is stronger and it's *made* for this so I wouldn't worry about the IPA.



Much as I like doing stuff by machine, I find it hard to apply sealants thin enough that way; I do sealants better by hand. Waxes I prefer doing by machine, but hey, that's just a personal preference.
Click to expand...





Accumulator.......do you know why DuPont prepsol is not available through the detailing web sites? Just curious.....
 
Saleenman607 said:
Accumulator.......do you know why DuPont prepsol is not available through the detailing web sites? Just curious.....
Click to expand...



Nope, no idea at all :nixweiss



It's easy enough to find though, most every town has an autobody/paint supply place and they always have a few versions of such solvents...PrepSol, Pre-Kleano, etc.
 
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