Plz Review Paint Correction Plan

[Chad Griggs]

I plan on doing some paint correction for my black Jeep Grand Cherokee. I've done quite a bit of research and I think I have a plan. I'd just like to see if anyone has further recommendations or comments. It's a year old vehicle and already has a good amount of swirls.



2 Bucket Car wash

Meguiar's C-2000 Clay Bar

Porter Cable 7424XP

Backing Plate 5" I think it fits the PC ?

Lake Country CSS 4" Pads (Yellow, Orange, White and Black)

Meguiar's Ultimate Compound Probably only used on wet sand areas for orange peel (yellow pad)

Meguiar's Scratch X 2.0 Orange Pad

Meguiar's Ultimate Polish White/Black Pad?

Blackfire Wet Diamond Paint Protection

Meguiar's Ultimate Liquid Wax

 

[pwaug]

Welcome to Autopia!

I'll get this started and perhaps some others will chime in:



If you haven't bought any of this yet you might want to consider the Griot's Polisher as it's more powerful and has a lifetime warranty so if you have any problems with it a few years down the road you just send it back for repair or replacement.



With a 5" backing plate you need to be using 5.5" pads--if you want to use 4" pads for the small bits on the car you'll need a 3.5" backing plate.



I think most here would not recommend CSS pads--go with flat pads--LC or better yet 3D, Buff & Shine or Uber--the last 3 are the same and have a recessed velcro that is an added margin of safety.



If you're new to machine polishing and this is factory paint I think most here would recommend that you stay away from any wetsanding--too easy to burn through the clear coat.



Depending on the severety of the swirls you might be able to do a 1 step correction with HD UNO or just HD Polish (hard to say without seeing the paint) then a coat of HD POXY for protection and a great wax look with sealant protection. (If you're new to Machine Polishing HD products are very beginner friendly-long working times, no dust, no heavy oils to hide swirls and easy to remove.



Whatever you decide to use make sure you do a test spot to dial in you pads, products and technique--once the test spot is to your satisfaction you can then duplicate the process on the whole car.

 

[togwt]

As a detailer you need to be able to ‘read’ the paint; that means knowing how the paint will react with each pad / polish combination you consider using and you do this by experimenting on a ‘test panel’ taking the results you’ll be able to adapt to differing circumstances. You must know your product and what its capabilities are before using it



The factors that affect the outcome -speed, friction (kinetic energy) applied pressure, foam pad actual surface contact area, pad grit number (abrasive ability) amount of surface lubrication available, the surface area and heat conductivity of material



1. Wash

2. Detailer’s clay (surface contaminants) and then light wash / rinse or

a) Chemical Paint Cleaner

3. Paint Decontamination (below surface contaminants) and then light wash with an alkaline (pH 9) wash concentrate

4. Dry paint surfaces

5. Tape protection (edges, emblems, panel edges, etc)

6. Check paint thickness (PTG) if not within ‘safe’ parameters use a Glaze and then proceed to 10

7. Test Panel Process, dependent upon results proceed to (a) ( b) or (c)



a) Compound

b) Polish

c) Wet-sand



8. Paint inspection wipe down

9. Final polish

10. Apply paint protection



Diagnosis is the key, not guess work; before deciding on what products to use ascertain the paint surface conditions and your goals for the paint finish. And then proceed with the least abrasive product / pad combination



Select a ‘typical’ panel; one that represents the type of defects that you want to remove and the finish level required. Select an area of 18 x 18-inches and tape it off with painter’s tape, as this is an optimal working section to perform a product test spot; this will help establish a polish – pad combination that will produce the best possible finish that corresponds to your detailing goals for the vehicle.



Pay attention to how the paint is responding to your inputs. Stop and evaluate your progress, once this is established; repeat the process over the entire paint surface, adjusting abrasiveness for any low paint thickness.



If your choice of abrasive polish pad combination, speed and technique works to restore the finish to your expectations, then theoretically you should be able to duplicate the process on the rest of the vehicle.



There may be some areas that have deeper scratches, which will necessitate a more abrasive polish. This is known a ‘spot-correction’. Once this area(s) are completed revert to the original polish / pad combination, there is no need to remove any more clear coat than is necessary

Normal Polishing area - 18 x 18- inches is optimal although a slightly larger area could be used

 

[Chad Griggs]

Thanks for the suggestions so far.



I haven't bought anything yet, but these are what I'm somewhat familiar with due to my research. I saw multiple people say to use 4" pads to get the best use out of a DA. I'd seen others that say 5.5" is fine too. I dunno, I just decided 4". As far as the CSS, I didn't see too many descriptions on exactly which type to get. Most said Lake Country is good but not the type. Do you have any links to where I should get them? It doesn't look like Amazon has the pads your referring to.



As far as the wet sand. I just painted a grill and trim piece that have a little orange peel. I read these forums up and down looking for discussions on wet sanding and I think I will do some light sanding then the heavy (yellow) cutting pad with my best cutting compound, in this case, Ultimate Compound.



The Porter Cable seems to be the right price and so many people seem to be happy with it. Other than that, I haven't looked into the polishers much further.



Any other thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated!

 

[Dan]

5.5" pads are probably your best bet for a Griots machine. You also don't need the scratch-X. I'd get UC and UP. You don't need two LSP's. Make sure you do a test area before you go down the path of doing the whole car, that is the biggest newbie mistake.



Lastly, I wouldn't begin until I addressed the swirling issues. If it has significant swirls from a year's use, you need to solve that problem otherwise your work will be a waste of time.

 

[Accumulator]

As far as the wet sand. I just painted a grill and trim piece that have a little orange peel. I read these forums up and down looking for discussions on wet sanding and I think I will do some light sanding then the heavy (yellow) cutting pad with my best cutting compound, in this case, Ultimate Compound...

I avoid harsh foam cutting pads (like the yellow ones) like the plague! I'd *MUCH* rather use a Meguiar's MF Cutting Disk. Better correction, easier to clean between passes, and much better finish that's easier to dehaze with the next step.

the Porter Cable seems to be the right price and so many people seem to be happy with it. Other than that, I haven't looked into the polishers much further.

I'd buy the Griot's 6" RO polisher instead. Period, hands-down, no question. Or maybe the Meguiar's G120 vs. The PC XP makes me nervous what with the spindle breakage Barry experienced.



Oh, and Welcome to Autopia!

 

[imported_DetailDan]

I'd think about how the swirls got there in the first place and how you're going to prevent them from returning before spending hours on a paint correction.

 

[Accumulator]

I'd think about how the swirls got there in the first place and how you're going to prevent them from returning before spending hours on a paint correction.

Yeah, good point. Until the wash regimen is all sorted out the whole correction thing is kinda pointless, at least if you're thinking long-term.

 

[pwaug]

Thanks for the suggestions so far.



I haven't bought anything yet, but these are what I'm somewhat familiar with due to my research. I saw multiple people say to use 4" pads to get the best use out of a DA. I'd seen others that say 5.5" is fine too. I dunno, I just decided 4". As far as the CSS, I didn't see too many descriptions on exactly which type to get. Most said Lake Country is good but not the type. Do you have any links to where I should get them? It doesn't look like Amazon has the pads your referring to.



As far as the wet sand. I just painted a grill and trim piece that have a little orange peel. I read these forums up and down looking for discussions on wet sanding and I think I will do some light sanding then the heavy (yellow) cutting pad with my best cutting compound, in this case, Ultimate Compound.



The Porter Cable seems to be the right price and so many people seem to be happy with it. Other than that, I haven't looked into the polishers much further.



Any other thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated!

You can get Lake Country flat pads at almost any detailing website. 3D pads are available from our sponsor here-click on the link above. Uber pads are available from another of our sponsors--Detailers Domain--click on the link above. Google Buff & Shine and you'll find a number of dealers.

The Griot's DA is about the same price as the PC, but as I said is much more powerful and has a lifetime warranty. Amazon and BJs.com often have them on sale for $80-90, but you have to watch for it (Gold Box Deals on Amazon).

 

[Chad Griggs]

a) Chemical Paint Cleaner

I'm not familiar with this step...

You also don't need the scratch-X. I'd get UC and UP. You don't need two LSP's

I was thinking of only using UC on my orange peel project. I thought UC would be a little aggressive for the whole car. I was planning on using Scratch X 2.0 for the whole car then UP.

I'd think about how the swirls got there in the first place and how you're going to prevent them from returning before spending hours on a paint correction.

I don't really know how the swirls got there. I've only owned the Jeep for about a couple of months. I don't think they're for me, I've been careful. 2 Bucket method, only using dedicated drying towels and micro fiber cloths.

I'd buy the Griot's 6" RO polisher instead. Period, hands-down, no question.

Ok, looks like Amazon has the Griot's for the same price. I assume I can use the same 5" backing plate listed in the original post.

5.5" pads are probably your best bet for a Griots machine.

You can get Lake Country flat pads at almost any detailing website.

I also found 5 1/2" Lake Country Flat Pads on Amazon. If that's the current recommendation on it I'll go with the bigger pads.



Any other thoughts or comments are appreciated!

 

[togwt]

a) Chemical Paint Cleaner

I'm not familiar with this step...



2. Detailer’s clay (surface contaminants) and then light wash / rinse or

a) Chemical Paint Cleaner



As an alternate to clay (non-marring)

 

[pwaug]

Just like with the PC you have to purchase a 5" backing plate for the GG6 as it comes with a 6" backing plate--any quality backing plate will work. Those Lake Country pads are fine, however on most detailing websites you can get a 6 pack for $35. You'll need at least 4 for use with the UC, 4 for the polish and then one for each LSP you plan to use. Until you do a test spot you won't know which product to use, but I doubt the UC will be too aggressive.

 

[Chad Griggs]

As an alternate to clay (non-marring)

Thanks

Just like with the PC you have to purchase a 5" backing plate for the GG6 as it comes with a 6" backing plate--any quality backing plate will work.

So I think I'm going to be ordering soon. This backing plate will work with the Griots and pads listed above? Any other backing plate I should be looking at?



What does LSP stand for?

You'll need at least 4 for use with the UC, 4 for the polish and then one for each LSP you plan to use

If I got a 6 pack of pads, which colors do you recommend?

 

[Dan]

Just like with the PC you have to purchase a 5" backing plate for the GG6 as it comes with a 6" backing plate--any quality backing plate will work. Those Lake Country pads are fine, however on most detailing websites you can get a 6 pack for $35. You'll need at least 4 for use with the UC, 4 for the polish and then one for each LSP you plan to use. Until you do a test spot you won't know which product to use, but I doubt the UC will be too aggressive.

I've been using the backing plate that came with my GG6 with 5.5 pads all its life. Honestly, I didn't even know it was for 6" pads.

 

[Chad Griggs]

Oh really, so i don't even need to get a plate?

 

[Dan]

I'd wait for others to chime in. I might be off my rocker!

 

[togwt]

The type of backing plate is even more important than most detailer’s realize, as an incorrect choice can cause overheating, contribute to swirls, compromise a pad, or add to its durability or help it to stay cooler



The backing plate directly transfers the kinetic friction (energy) of the machine to the paint surface via the pad. The foam pad will absorb the amount of orbital movement produced by the machine polisher unless sufficient pressure is applied to compress the pad (to approx 50%).

Using a properly sized backing plate allows for the equal distribution of pressure across the entire face area of the pad; making it more efficient; as a backing plate only compresses the area of the pad that is directly underneath it.



A polishing system is more efficient when used with the correct sized backing plate. Using a backing plate that is the same size as the pad uses utilizes the whole surface area of the pad, you should not use an undersized backing plate.



If the backing plate is too small for the pad, you reduce the effective contact surface area of the pad that is able to polish effectively, t here is also a possibility that the backing plate will ‘cut’ the foam causing it to fail.



Allow a maximum of ¼-inch as a safety margin (i.e. 6.5 -inch pad- 6-inch backing plate, 5.5-inch pad -4.75-inch backing plate) this will allow the maximum pad surface contact area, and equal pad compression over the pad contact surface ensuring efficient polishing



A hard and inflexible backing plate will affect the performance of a foam pad; by making it slightly more aggressive (stiffness) and may cause swirl marks. The inflexible plastic on many backing plates has zero give and therefore will not adjust to the contoured body panels. The exception would be a plate bonded to a thick layer of dense cellular foam (interface) Lake Country Mfg (LC) CCS pads.

 

[pwaug]

Hey Dan--guess why they call it the GG6 :wink1:



With Dan's experience having a margin for error is not as important so the 6" is fine for him, but if machine polishing is new to you then you would want the safety margin as mentioned by TOGWT--you don't want the backing plate causing damage when polishing next to protruding objects-- 5" backing plates are usually less than 5"--the LC BP is fine.



As far as which pads--LC has such an array of pads it's difficult for me to say but I would guess you'd be fine with 4 orange, 4 white and 1 blue (for each wax or sealant-LSP = Last Step Product) to start. As Accumulator mentioned the LC Yellow is said to not finish down well, but I've had good results with the Buff & Shine yellow on hard paint. Perhaps others familar with LC pads will chime in.

 

[Chad Griggs]

Great, thanks for all of the info! I think in ready to place my order. Now I'll have to focus more on the technique of doing it rather than the tools to buy. Thanks again





Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[Accumulator]

Chad Griggs- The PC/Griot's/Cyclo/Meguiar's/similar polishers all take the same backing plates, lots of interchange.



You may well find that the GG6 works fine for you with 6" and/or even 6.5" pads.



For an aggressive foam pad that won't cause its own issues, I *really* like the maroon Meguiar's cutting pad. Both the old-tech 7006 and the newer version. Only foam cutting pads I use (not counting the orange light-cut pads).



LSP= Last Step Product, i.e., your wax or sealant, which I'd probably just do by hand.



I myself would probably buy two serious cutting pads (Meguiar's maroon foam or MF), four orange light-cut pads, and four polishing pads (white? green? I'm not current...). Buy more pads than you think you need. Really.