PC after rotary

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imported_wagsjr

New member
After your rotary work when you guys follow up with pc will that take away from your finish? I know the rotary produces a clearer brighter finish so I was wondering does the pc actually dull the finish in exchange for removing and slight hologram marks?
 
I never finish with the PC anymore if I am doing rotary work on the car, as the rotary can finish to a much clearer and sharper finish. So its rotary all the way for me. However, the reason the PC doesn't finish as well is not evenly breaking down the abrasives owing to the randomness of the pad motion. So, a non-abrasive product like a glaze, the PC will dleiver a beautiful finish with and wont in any way detracrt from the crystal clarity achieved by the rotary. :)
 
uh im not sure why or how to prove the fact that the rotary produces a richer crisper cleaner less flawed ectectect finish. have you scrolled through many pros pics on here? many of them use pc strictly.it does take longer to break down abrasives with pc but its not as if the pc cant or just plain doesnt break them down. rotary makes quick work compared to pc. take a look at scottwax homepage and tell me how much better the vehicles hes detailed could look lol.
 
I have looked at a lot and opened them up side by side. Pc pics seem a slight bit cloudier. I am going to do some side by side for myself now that I have a pc.
 
evo77 said:
So what are the tricks for avoiding holograms from the rotary? Slower speeds?
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No, its proper speed, proper pad and proper movement and feed of the rotary. Its is also the type of polish you are using also.
 
99.9% of the time I am full rotary polisher. For me you cannot go wrong finishing with any menzerna finishing polish @ 1200-1500 with a polishing or finishing pad. It does take some experience with the rotary to get the feel for operation and movement of the machine but once you get it, its hard to go away from it.



Greg
 
VaSuperShine said:
uh im not sure why or how to prove the fact that the rotary produces a richer crisper cleaner less flawed ectectect finish. have you scrolled through many pros pics on here? many of them use pc strictly.it does take longer to break down abrasives with pc but its not as if the pc cant or just plain doesnt break them down. rotary makes quick work compared to pc. take a look at scottwax homepage and tell me how much better the vehicles hes detailed could look lol.
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I did a side by side test of both tools on here, along with a few others in the UK who have performed similar tests and on solid paint we have all come to the same conclusions about rotary vs. PC. There a post on Autopia by me, with a side by side test of both tools. :) Obviously I am not saying the PC gives a bad finish, that is certainly not was was being said... However it is my experience, and that of many detailers in the UK, that the rotary gives a sharper clearer finish - do a side by side comparison for yourself, get a flat dark colour scrap panel. You will see the faintest micromarring on the PC side that acts to very very slightly dull the finish when comared side by side to a rotary finish. The PC finish is still excellent, dont get me wrong it looks supberb, but the rotary has got a little extra.
 
All my comparisons were done pre-LSP application to get an accurate gauge on the finish immediately after polishing. There will be a certain degree of filling from all LSPs (they sit on the paint), and some will fill more than others to cover up any micromarring.
 
Dave KG said:
However, the reason the PC doesn't finish as well is not evenly breaking down the abrasives owing to the randomness of the pad motion.
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Operator error. If you can break down the polish at all, all of it can be broken down.
 
MichaelM said:
Operator error. If you can break down the polish at all, all of it can be broken down.
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Beg to differ here - try fully breaking down, evenly, all of the abrasives in Power Gloss or G3 by PC. Its not just me who experiences the improved finshes by rotary, this is a common theme amongst detailers in the UK, and while I would accept that my technqiue may be a fault possibly, not the technqiue of a large number of highly respected detailers... The finish from Power Gloss will have micromarring by PC, due to not fully broken down polish, by rotary it will be fully broken down and be a clear finish. With skill, you can get hologram free by rotary using Power Gloss or G3... The same thing happens with finer grade polishes, it just takes a lot more scrutiny to see the differences - this is something I have been experimenting with for some time now, on various scrap panels (various paint types) and my results concur with the findings of many other well respected detailers - the rotary simply finishes products better. For fine polishes the difference is extremely hard to spot, but it is there and its these very small differences I am after to improve my finish to the ultimate.



On a side by side comparison, on a solid dark colour, try for yourself a comparison between the PC and the rotary with the same product and pad, and just compare the results... The #83 and #80 combo for example. You'll either see what I'm talking about, or if you see no difference at all please post up the results and the exact techniques you used by PC so I can learn from them. I am confident a difference will be there however, and this is why I have switched all of my machine polishing work over onto the rotary.
 
Another reason I much prefer using the rotart now is I also find them far more comfortable to use, especially when I am detailing regularly... The vibration from the PC, although not painful, I find gets annoying after a while escpecially compared to the smoothness of operation of the Makita as well. This, in addition to the superior finishes I (and many others) achieve by rotary, is my reason by switching to fully being a rotary polisher. I used to finissh using the PC, but now the tool is relagated to glaze and wax applications.
 
Any tips for someone using a rotary at 1200rpm, light pressure only with a finishing pad and something like FPII or OP and still getting some very faint hologramming?

I have been using a rotary for a while now. Some paint can be finished ok like this but most cannot without the slight hologramming in direct sun. I usually go to a PC now for the final step (even if it's just with VM) so I do not have to worry about holograms.

I'm not saying others can't finish with a rotary with no holograms, just that it seems like we are treading a fine line with it.
 
After working the polish at 1200rpm, I would step down to 600 or 900 for two final passes, slow with light pressure just to refine the finish. This is the method I use with #80, FPII, PO85RD and PO106FF and it works a treat with them.



Also, to avoid hologramming, I always ensure the product is thoroughly worked and that I am making only slow passes with the rotary. I find if I move the tool too fast the polish isn't being worked correctly and the holograms start to come forward. Another previous cause of hologramming for me was on practising with G3 - it splattered in the intial passes, and this aplatter was then picked up with later passes in the set - thus mixing unbroken down abrasives with broken down abrasives - this led to some of the polish being fully worked and some not, leading to hologramming.
 
wifehatescar said:
Good tips, I'll give them a try next time. Do you find using a very low speed makes a big difference?
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On soft paints, I find the slow speed does help refine the finish that little bit at the end of a set. I do it as a mater of course now on all paint types to ensure I get the best possible finish. :)
 
I've been finishing with a rotory lately. I've only finished one of my last 3 details with a PC and that is because it was on a Black Lexus and the sun wasnt cooperating. I'll reach for my PC when the sun isnt around for me to check my work. So far I havent had any hologramming issues, but I really like to be POSITIVE that everything is all good.
 
Dave KG said:
Beg to differ here - try fully breaking down, evenly, all of the abrasives in Power Gloss or G3 by PC.
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I agree with you. Power Gloss is a compound meant for a rotary. While it may work, to some extent, with a PC you will not, as you've found out, get the same results as if you'd use a rotary.



Where we disagree is in this:



The finish from Power Gloss ...by rotary will be fully broken down and be a clear finish. With skill, you can get hologram free by rotary using Power Gloss or G3... With skill, you can get hologram free by rotary using Power Gloss or G3
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Perhaps you can get a finish with power gloss and a rotary that is hologram free on some paint, but it will never be as clear/level as it would be with a finishing polish. Being hologram free is great, but not the ultimate goal. You would be still left with a finish that is lacking...



the rotary simply finishes products better
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Some products, perhaps, but in general it is not the case. For example, take a look at the menzerna polish chart (http://www.menzerna.de/files/e_polish web.pdf). The gloss rating does not change with the type of machine, pad, speed, etc. In the end the gloss can only be as fine as the polish itself. The trick is being able come up with the rest of the combination that can take full advantage of the polish while being docile enough to not leave traces once the polish is broken down. This may be easier for you with a rotary but with more experience I think you'll find it much less stressful to finish with a DA style machine and save the rotary for correction.



You have to use what works for you but when you start to figure repeatability, efficiency, and paint variety into the equation you'll see why the DA was ever brought into the mix.
 
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