Orange Peel Reduction Exercise with Anthony Orosco

Gonzo

New member
Compared to previous vehicles I have owned, my new Honda Accord Coupe had moderate orange peel in the clear coat that was reducing the reflectivity of the beautiful sapphire blue metallic paint. I went to Anthony wanting to eliminate or reduce significantly this pesky "feature" of modern automobile painting technology.



Unbeknownst to me before hand, Ron Harris, a friend of Anthony's showed up to help. After washing and drying, work began by doing a reflectivity depth study. This entails placing a ruler against the OP'ed regions of the vehicle and seeing how much of the ruler reflection can be

read. Some parts of the paint showed somewhere between 4 and 5 inches, a sign there was lots or room for improvement. Anthony took some before pictures, but had some camera problems, only discovered after-the-fact. so none are available.



I brought with me some Mirka Abralon 2000 and 4000 sanding disks for evaluation [by the expert] and this was used dry using a 6" random orbit electric sander. It comes with foam backing that is very soft and a backing pad that is somewhat firmer. Initially it was used at low speed but the combination proved ineffective as the softness of the padding

allowed it to conform to the hills and valleys in the OP. Turning up the sander speed helped a bit but didn't seem to be knocking down the OP appreciably. Perhaps used wet with an air powered random orbit sander might demonstrate increased effectiveness, but that will be another story for another day. This was set-aside for a while.



Ron then started wet sanding a panel at a time using Meguiar's Unigrit 2000 and 3000 grit sandpapers. About half way through, he encouraged me to start, so I completed the remainder of the vehicle, while he ran off to run some honey-do errands. From time to time, the Mirka (4000) was used to see what would happen. It did eliminate some of the

3000 sanding marks and left the paint quite smooth to touch but not very shiny.



Meanwhile, Anthony was following us around the vehicle with his trusty Metabo rotary, erasing the sanding marks, using Menzerna Powergloss and Hi-Temps Xtreme Cut in combination with LC orange pad. I'm sure his product combination was contributing to some OP reduction as well. Final polishing was accomplished with a Cyclo, finishing pads and Menzerna's FP and as darkness was falling, I chased the Cyclo work, applying Klasse AIO. One last gentle power wash with de-ionized water got rid on any buffing residues in the crevices, nooks and crannies.



On a final note, the option to complete eliminate the OP was NOT elected on Anthony's advice in favor of leaving some [greatly reduced] to provide some lasting UV protection. It is now at the point where I can live with. I now have learned enough about the wet sanding process I feel confident enough to tackle any areas I find "offensive" on this or other vehicles.



Thanks Anthony and Ron - I really appreciate your freely sharing your combined experience with a relative newcomer to detailing.





Pictures here:

Before - Note fuzziness of the vertical edges of mail box

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After - Fuzziness reduced

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After - Some OP remains as evidenced by fuzzy tree reflections

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After - Almost gone - note branch reflections in glas and paint are virtually the same

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Look at an orange skin closely. Its skin is all small ridges and valleys. Same effect on factory paint jobs, lots of tiny ridges and valleys, ergo the name of the imperfection in paint.
 
Excellent article.



Could a PC have taken the place of the electric sander.



My (resprayed SS) car has terrible OP but I lack the nerve and equipment to try and minimise it.
 
PC & electric sander are essentially the same thing, maybe the shape is different is all. I thing the one use was a Bosch 6 inch, variable speed.
 
Gonzo,



What a fascinating story :up



I've been investigating Mikra ( for the sake of the bulldog logo primarily ) and am wondering if they make wetsanding paper, like Meguiars does, seems like they only make disks for sanders.
 
I'm jealous. I'd love to be able to wetsand my Expedition. The orange peel isn't as bad as some cars I've seen, but its still bad enough.



My father recently purchased an 04' Mach 1 and the orange peel was so bad that the dealer elected to just repaint the entire car. They tried to wetsand/polish it out but came to the conclusion that it left the clearcoat too thin to be comfortable.
 
Do you guys think that if I wetsanded a small area with say, 4000 grit paper I could fully polish the sanding marks out with a PC? I was going to buy a rotary a while back and then chickened out because I all of a sudden started reading about all these hologram problems.
 
JDookie

Get the rotary! Holograms are not a rotary induced problem. Holograms are a technique problem when using a rotray.



PC and sanding marks. I've done it, but then again, I used Micromesh sand papers (see link above) 2400, 3600, 4000, 6000 and 8000, THEN the PC!
 
Yeah, I think I will have to break down and buy it. YOWZA!! 2400,3600,4000,6000,8000! Now that's more work than it's worth.



While actually sanding the surface, what were you looking for to know when to stop sanding a particular area?
 
As with any wet sanding, you want to use a firm sanding block (Meguiar's makes 'em, among others).



During the cutting of OP, say starting with 2000, you are looking for the tops of the hills to be cut off - they will appear dull, compared to the valleys, which remain shiny. Go at it gently, rewetting the paper/surface often and wipe down a lot to dry it, so you can really differentiate between the dull hills and shiny valleys.



Just before you cut the valleys, move to a finer grit paper, say 4000. At this point you don't want to cut the valleys, just smooth off the tops of the hills. It is way easy to cut too much and it really helped me to have a couple of "masters" around for guidance. Then polish as in the original article.



Get a hood or door from a junk yard to practice on if you have any doubts about how much is too much. It will get really expensive really quickly if you cut through the clear or cut it too thin, so in 12-18 months you need to reshoot the clear.



Believe me, even with guidance, it took a LOT of courage to put sand paper to my car - way more courage than it took to use the rotary for the first time.!
 
Thanks, Gonzo, I'll bet it did take a lot of courage but, like you said, at least you had two masters watching you! Great job, it looks much better.
 
I just wish to chime in and say it was a real joy to meet "Gonzo". Great guy and I really got to know him as we ate breakfast and lunch at my house.



Our work day was hampered by rains and some really gross humidity:down I was hoping for more sun so we could check the work as we went along but that was not to be.



Nick took quickly to the whole wet sanding process and after geting over the nerves he was going at it like a pro. After our first go around I asked him if he would like to knock it down one more time and after wisely asking the pros and cons of that he chose to leave it as is.



The factors one must weigh in making that choice is 1) Is the gain worth the risk and 2) Will you keep the vehicle for an extended period of time?



The first one is crucial because many guys sand and sand until the paint is completely flat (no OP left) which leaves their top coat, which contains the UV layer, seriously jeapordized. They then still need to buff the sanding marks out which only abrades away even more of the clear coat.....suddenly they burn the paint:eek:



I asked Nick the second question because if he had plans on selling the car in a year or so then I would of knocked it down once more which would of left him enough clear for a years worth of polishing BUT since he plans on keeping for some years to come the wise choice was to get the OP to a place where it was acceptable as Nick plans on polishing the paint every 6 months or so.



The final results looked really nice, I wish we had more daylight, but as Nick noted before we started we could only read 4 to 5 inches clearly on the ruler and afterwards we could read a foot plus:xyxthumbs So again I thank Nick for trusting my partner Ron and myself on his baby......which by the way is a beautiful color:up So if anyone is up to having their cars wetsanded.....come on down:D



Anthony
 
Anthony Orosco said:
The first one is crucial because many guys sand and sand until the paint is completely flat (no OP left) which leaves their top coat, which contains the UV layer, seriously jeapordized. They then still need to buff the sanding marks out which only abrades away even more of the clear coat.....suddenly they burn the paint:eek:



Wow, thanks for clearing this up for me, Anthony. I wet-sanded my 1987 Corolla back in the mid-90s, and while it looked dynamite at first, about 18 months later I noticed two small (1") spots of what I'm now assuming to be CC failure (the car was metallic blue, but turned gray where I had gone too far), and I've been afraid to use sandpaper ever since. Now I see I was totally off, starting with 1500 grit, finishing with 2000, sanding everything flat and going to town with the rotary, wool pad, then Meg's heavy and fine-cut cleaners. What an amateur. I'm surprised now that I didn't do even more damage.:o



So... since I've been itching to sand the OP on my Cressida, now I can avoid doing things so haphazardly and actually have a workable plan. Live and learn...:wavey



Great write-up, BTW, Gonzo!:up
 
Gonzo- Good write-up, glad it turned out the way you wanted, I bet it looks great. Now just keep that thing marring-free (heh heh, you have additional reasons for that now ;) ).



Anthony- Glad to hear you guys didn't get too extreme with this and I especially like your risk/benefit analysis :xyxthumbs



Yeah yeah, I know, I'm always :nono about wetsanding, but when somebody like *Anthony* is doing it (and properly evaluating the situation) it's a different ballgame.
 
I sure hope Gonzo doesn't mind me posting up a few pictures here but since I somehow messed up Gonzo's BEFORE pics I figured I would try and make up for it by once again using my truck as a guinea pig:D



I wetsanded the hood of my truck as it had some fair amount of OP. I started with 2500 and then went over it with 3000.



Here is a pic of it after the 3000



Wetsand3000.jpg




Now comes the rotary with a LC wool cutting pad and Akrya 600. Notice that the sanding marks are leveled and now we have to deal with the swirls. Here is a picture.



woolakrya600.jpg




Next step will be a LC wool polishing pad and Akrya 800. This greatly reduces the swirls, levels the paint and removes the hazing. You can see my garage light a bit clearer now.



wlpolakrya800.jpg




It can be hard to see from the pictures but while it may look good there is still some light hazing, naturally, left over from the wool polishing pad. This was taken care of with a LC foam polishing pad and my new Optimum polish. This is also the last picture....I apologize for the quality of the pictures but this was last minute:rolleyes:



whtLCopt.jpg




Thanks and I am sorry Gonzo if I hi-jacked your thread, just wanted to show others what your process your paint went through. There is still some OP left on my paint but it looks much nicer.....now I might have to do the whole thing:shocked



Anthony
 
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