ONRWW = no need for traditional wax/sealant?

E

eddiehaskell

New member
I have read that washing with ONRWW leaves behind a layer of protection (has some OCW in it?) - granted, probably not a lot when diluted in 1-2 gallons of water.  Some have even mentioned having customers ask how their car was washed AND waxed in such a small amount of time.  Gary Dean clearly states this in one of his GDWM videos.  He says that if one just washes with IUDJ every week, they have no need to wax as the polymers leave behind a layer of protection that last until the next week.  


 


Now what if ONRWW is used to wash a car and followed up with a wipe down at QD dilution (as if you're using OCW) - surely this would give 10 or so days worth of protection, right?


 


It seems like this method would work for someone that is diligent about washing their car at least 3x/month.   


 


One could even take this a step further and use OCW every few months,  Maybe this could allow for washing every 2 weeks?  Perhaps a routine of something like this....


 


day 1: ONRWW wash + apply OCW


 


day 14: ONRWW wash + ONRWW QD


 


days 28: ONRWW wash + ONRWW QD


 


days 42: ONRWW wash + ONRWW QD


 


day 56: ONRWW wash + apply OCW


 


 


 


Do you folks think a car could stay protected by what amounts to routine washing?   Washing a car every few weeks is basic maintenance...this routine basically adds zero time over what one is supposed to be doing. 


 


 


 


 


 


 
 
It works for me.

However, it is not a replacement for quality wax or seal.

But it is better than none. Adding ocw after is a good idea.

It just depends if you are interested in time or quality.
 
I always wonder even tho they ( they being any company ) say there is wax in the wash product is it actually adding anything to the paint in the form of protection or is it marketing via an emulsion? No real way of proving it either way as beading doesn't mean there is protection. Heck even the "wax" cycle at the spray wash makes beading ...
 
If etching is a concern, you'd still need one of the LSPs that protect well in that regard.  I'm a big fan of IUDJ and I'm also finding Garry's Beyond Infinity Sealant to be a good product, but I don't see such stuff protecting against bugs/birds the way a LSP like FK1000P does.


 


Is it *really* that big a deal to LSP a few times (maybe only once, depending on the product and circumstances) each year?  Since we don't appear to be worrying about the minute(?) differences in looks that some people obsess over, why not throw a coat of the FK1000P on there every six-eight months?  Not like it'd take a whole afternoon (I'm talking no claying, no prep, just a quick LSP refresher).


 


I hardly ever redo my LSPs, I just do maintenance washes for months on end so I do get the idea of not spending time on this stuff.  And/but...note that the QDs that I use as drying aids sorta accomplish the same thing under discussion, but they're no subsitute for a proper LSP.
 
WWWW-WillyWallyWashWax said:
It works for me.

However, it is not a replacement for quality wax or seal.

But it is better than none. Adding ocw after is a good idea.

It just depends if you are interested in time or quality.
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So I guess the question is...when stripped down, is your paint in good condition?  When stripped, do you think there would be a noticeable difference to the naked eye compared to someone that followed a more traditional routine on the same type of paint? 


 


To me it seems like it either works or it doesn't.
 
Accumulator said:
Is it *really* that big a deal to LSP a few times (maybe only once, depending on the product and circumstances) each year?  Since we don't appear to be worrying about the minute(?) differences in looks that some people obsess over, why not throw a coat of the FK1000P on there every six-eight months?  Not like it'd take a whole afternoon (I'm talking no claying, no prep, just a quick LSP refresher).


 


I hardly ever redo my LSPs, I just do maintenance washes for months on end so I do get the idea of not spending time on this stuff.  And/but...note that the QDs that I use as drying aids sorta accomplish the same thing under discussion, but they're no subsitute for a proper LSP.
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It's definitely not a big deal to LSP a few times per year, but I'm just curious about well some of these products actually work.  Optimum does advertise: "<span>Wash <u>and wax</u> your vehicle - with one product."  


 


If they do work, LSP is just one more step that could be eliminated while still maintaining a nice finish.  Perhaps 90% of the results for 20% of the effort...not acceptable for most Autopia members, but great for the average person. 


 


For example, my brother knows nothing about maintaining paint (frequent Auto Bell user).  Could I give him a bottle of ONRww, teach him how to properly wash and maybe tell him to WOWO a little OCW every few months?  Seems pretty easy and foolproof.   


 


If ONRww leaves behind a layer of wax, how do we know it's not enough to give adequate short term protection? 


 


OCW is a spray on wax, but what makes a spray on inherently worse than a bottled liquid wax?  Is it just the concentration? 
 
When used weekly or bi weekly No Rinse Wash & Wax will have a cumulative effect for the wax and the UV protection. So, over time you could keep a good level of protection on the surface as long as you didn't strip it in between washes with a strong cleaner/degreaser. Ideally, you would have a dedicated LSP, and use No Rinse Wash & Wax to maintain/boost it.
 
eddiehaskell said:
It's definitely not a big deal to LSP a few times per year, but I'm just curious about well some of these products actually work.  Optimum does advertise: "<span>Wash <u>and wax</u> your vehicle - with one product."  


 


 


 My question too .. if so .. does the Turtle Wax wash soap that has wax in it work to?   Adverising doen't mean it works.


 


http://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=5ghs8vIsuQ7A2M&tbnid=g_kcBlpctOhwSM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wilko.com%2Fcar-cleaning%2Fturtle-wax-zip-wax-super-concentrate-wash%2Bwax-500ml%2Finvt%2F0157410&ei=xZsUU9OpCMT6oASsuILYDQ&bvm=bv.61965928,d.cGU&psig=AFQjCNGvpV37_T85ZMbRzb6xWr8AmAKY1Q&ust=1393945889964093


 
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eddiehaskell- My view on the protection aspect of it is that so few conventional LSPs really protect all *that* well against bugs/bird-bombs/etc.  I have no hard data, but I just don't see sprays/etc. working all that great in this particular regard.  I mean....I've had lousy protection from some pretty well-regarded LSPs.


 


Note that I've never used ONRWW, not once.  The IUDJ that I use definitely leaves nice slick stuff behind, but I think of it as being in the "QD" category.  Garry Dean's Beyond Infinity Sealant is more suited to the "regular LSP" category, along with OCW.  But I myself would rely on them as stand-alone LSPs for my vehicles, the way I use them.  But hey, that's just me.


 


The TW shampoo with wax (Zip Wash? Zip Wax?  something like that...) never left anything appreciable behind for me, but I haven't used it since the '80s.


 


For my utterly-non-Autopian friends/inlaws, I generally recommend Collinite 845.  My wife's niece uses that on the Volvo wagon I gave her, and it works so well for her and her husband that they use it on their other car too.  A pal uses Griot's Spray-On Wax, but I'm not impressed by the restults.


 


For the ultra-quick/easy approach I think I'd go with the ONRWW/IUDJ was followed by maybe Meguiar's Ultimate Quick Wax, the latter used as a drying aid. But my approach is so far from what we're discussing that I should probably just butt out! :unsure:
 
Accumulator said:
 


The TW shampoo with wax (Zip Wash? Zip Wax?  something like that...) never left anything appreciable behind for me, but I haven't used it since the '80s.


 


 Thing is .. how would you know?  feel , apperance, beading?  I do know that TW beads better before drying than for example CG CWS 107 which supposedly contains wax so who is protecting?


 
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Accumulator said:
eddiehaskell- My view on the protection aspect of it is that so few conventional LSPs really protect all *that* well against bugs/bird-bombs/etc.  I have no hard data, but I just don't see sprays/etc. working all that great in this particular regard.  I mean....I've had lousy protection from some pretty well-regarded LSPs.


 
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Someone had a problem with water etching through 2 coats of freshly applied sealant and Mike Phillips commented that anything strong enough or corrosive enough to etch the clear will have no problem with a micron or sub-micron thin layer of wax or sealant.  He went on to say that great water beading (what 99% of the market wants from a product) actually intensifies the corrosiveness of what's in the water.  From my perspective, this makes a lot of sense.  If something is strong enough to damage the paint, I just don't see the most durable wax/sealant protecting any better than what's left behind after weekly/biweekly washes with ONRww. 


 


There is also the issue of people not waxing/sealing as often as they can wash with something like ONRww.  Will a 2 month old application (surely it has thinned out a lot) of wax protect measurably better than a 5 day old layer of what ONRww leaves behind? 
 
Chris Thomas said:
When used weekly or bi weekly No Rinse Wash & Wax will have a cumulative effect for the wax and the UV protection. So, over time you could keep a good level of protection on the surface as long as you didn't strip it in between washes with a strong cleaner/degreaser. Ideally, you would have a dedicated LSP, and use No Rinse Wash & Wax to maintain/boost it.
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Sounds good.  How do you feel about using OCW along with ONRww?  Would the concentrated nature of OCW speed up the cumulative protection effect? 
 
Eddie, one reason that I like Optimum us synergy. Most of their products Work perfectly together. This is because the polymers work together. I can't claim that the wax in ONRww is the same as ocw, but I wouldn't bet against it.


I love the fact that you can add Optimum power clean to onr. If you add it in small enough concentration, then it is LSP safe. 8 to 1 or more dilute "should" be LSP safe. Yummy.
 
jesstzn- I figured the TW wash+wax didn't add anything as I never noticed any diff after using it. Not at all scientific/controlled..but if a waxjob was on its last legs a wash with that stuff didn't improve things that I could tell.


 


eddiehaskell- My experience has been that certain LSPs do indeed resist the corrosive effects of many types of contamination that would readily etch unprotected paint.  With (heavily layered) KSG or FK1000P, and to a lesser extent Collinite 476S, I can leave bugs/bird-bombs on the paint for extended period (weeks, until the next regular wash) without having them etch.  Noting that "all bugs and birds are different, you can't generalize too much!", this can't be said of my other LSPs, though which such contamination etches the paint in short order if I don't clean it off.  For me, it's a night-and-day difference that I just can't ignore.


 


That level of etching-resistance from certain LSPs holds up for a long time too, many months; the vehicles I use KSG/FK10000P on don't get redone more than once a year or so, sometimes less often than that.


 


I won't argue with Mike's theory regarding the toughness of  paint vs. LSP, but my first-hand experiences have not conformed to that.  I have vehicles with identical paint but different LSPs that behave quite differently in this regard and I've had different LSPs on (different sections of) the same vehicle with the same result.


 


I hope I don't come across as argumentative, and as I keep saying, "YMMV!" certainly applies to this subject, but I'm merely posting about how my experiences have gone.  Some of my vehicles with certain LSP regimens don't suffer from etching, but my other vehicles do, so I figure the LSP is the determining variable.  And IME only a few LSPs provide this degree of significant protection.
 
In reality even if it does leave something behind we have no way of knowing what it is without an analytical analysis of the paint to see what there now and not before. And if it does ... is it protection, marketing or .... ?
 
Yes, the problem is that LSP protection is not quantitative. It is subjective based on what the owner likes (Slickness/reflection) and it is severely dependant upon environmental variables.
 
I was talking more of wax claimed to be in the wash soap and what it leaves behind etc. in respect to protection. Not the LSP.
 
It's the same. Trying to prove wax vs sealant vs wax in rinselesd vs wax in soap is difficult. Too many factors. Determining "protection" is an even tougher stretch than durability
 
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