Oh, Come ON!!!, Give me a BREAK!!!!

C

CleanGSR

New member
Geez....so I polished out my black Acura 2 weekends ago. Since then I've done 2 washes.



1st wash was a conventional wash, blew the car dry with the leaf blower and did a QD wipe down with Megs Last Touch.



2nd wash was just to get rid of the dust from 4-5 days of driving. Did an ONR wash. As soon as I was done I noticed that I had "swirls" again that are clearly in the direction of the wash mitt and WW drying towels. Not conventional circular swirls, but longer type swirls (kind of oblong).



I'm not positive which of the two washes is the culprit, but come on....I'm always so careful with 2 buckets, touching the paint as little/lightly as possible, etc...... 4-5 hours of polishing down the drain and needs to be re-done. I really did not notice the swirls after the first wash and am about 80% sure that it's from the ONR wash.



That's it....I've always been skeptical about ONR washes being part of the culprit of my re-marring. I think my paint is just way to soft and I need more lubrication than ONR can give me. Only conventional washes now.....and I need to talk the wife into letting me drop some money on a FOAM GUN.



/Rant
 
Hm, sorry to hear that.. Maybe you should try separating the two washing methods to make sure which one is causing the problems. I guess the ONR wash is more likely to cause marring. Are you using the correct dilution?
 
Yes, actually I use just a hair more ONR than called for to get a little extra lubricity.



I'm going to tape off a section on both sides and polish them out (I might looks stupid for a couple days), then wait for it to get dusty and try a conventional wash on one side and onr on the other.



I'm almost positive it's the ONR wash though......this car just swirls really, really easily.



I should add that these swirls are not super bad and seriously look like some stray "flying" cobwebs have fallen onto the car. However for an autopian who had his car perfect 2 weeks prior, it's unacceptable.....just wanted to clarify that it's not a huge mess...I can probably clean it up in an hour with a quick pass of Poli-Seal.
 
What did you polish the paint with? You would be suprised how many products "fill" as in mask defects...
 
Megs #80 followed by poliseal in some areas using PC and white 5.5" Lake Country White pads at Speed 6. I did a 50/50 wipedown on my test spot to make sure the defects weren't filled by 80 (and they never are if broken down properly in my experience). I'm very "fluent" with the PC so I'm 100% positive that the swirls were removed and not filled.
 
TH0001 said:
What did you polish the paint with? You would be suprised how many products "fill" as in mask defects...
Click to expand...



Which products do you think these are? What do you think of 1Z Polish, Menzerna SIP/106FF?
 
ONR is rubbish, it has no lubrication

Optimum's completely off my list of products, promise alot deliver stuff all
 
That's true TH0001. What are you washing with? Have you tried lowe's grout sponge? Detail Doc turned me on to it and i'll never use anything else again.
 
I jumped on the GS bandwagon and did a small test with both conv. wash and ONR. Both marred my soft paint. Back to the sheepskin mitt which I've tested to not marr using conventional washes in the past....same for my drying towels. I rubbed them dry on the paint after a polish (under halogen's) and they didn't marr. So, I'm pretty sure it's the ONR. Even though it was just really dusty, I think the ONR spread the dust/dirt before lifting it and caused the marring. That or maybe I had something stuck in the waffle weave....though they were fresh out of the washer/dryer.
 
SVR said:
ONR is rubbish, it has no lubrication

Optimum's completely off my list of products, promise alot deliver stuff all
Click to expand...



User Error usually, sorry to hear you didn't have a good experience. Most people have a spot for it in their arsenal.
 
I know mine is not user error. I'm so darn careful with the stuff. 2 buckets even though I'm told it's not necessary. Small sections at a time....pre-soak with separate ONR mix....etc... I think my paint is just freakishly soft......though I have no problem finishing down with the DA w/o micromarring unlike other "softer" clears I've polished out.
 
CleanGSR said:
I know mine is not user error. I'm so darn careful with the stuff. 2 buckets even though I'm told it's not necessary. Small sections at a time....pre-soak with separate ONR mix....etc... I think my paint is just freakishly soft......though I have no problem finishing down with the DA w/o micromarring unlike other "softer" clears I've polished out.
Click to expand...





its probably your paint. ive got a honda and have the same problem. I take extreme care when i wash it and still swirls.



I found a slightly better, but time consuming way.



1> wet car

2> Presoak

3> Rinse

4> 1st hand wash with mitt but very very gently. I barely make contact with the paint. Also, I only do half a panel before rinsing out the mitt with 2nd bucket AND hose inside the mitt.

5> Rinse

6> Wash panel again.

7> Rinse

8> Dry with WW MF



I never wash applying any pressure on the mitt and use more shampoo than really neccesary to make sure the mitt really glides.



Sometimes I have to use a bit of paint cleaner to get the panel cleaner.





Honda paint sucks.
 
SVR said:
ONR is rubbish, it has no lubrication

Optimum's completely off my list of products, promise alot deliver stuff all
Click to expand...



Has enough lubrication for me to use at wash strength (not QD strength) as a clay lube. I've probably washed close to 2000 cars with ONR since it came out and I have had no problems. :nixweiss



==================



I have found that waffle weaves are not ideal for ONR since they have so little nap. Regular MFs work a lot better. In addition, when making your first drying pass, make sure some moisture is left on the paint for the second drying pass or you can get drying streaks...in fact, I think what you may be seeing are drying streaks. Try some OD and see if that removes what you are seeing.



My 626 had super soft paint too, and I found that I could actually wash it more gently with ONR since I could see exactly what I was doing the whole time-no suds in the way.
 
CleanGSR said:
Megs #80 followed by poliseal in some areas using PC and white 5.5" Lake Country White pads at Speed 6. I did a 50/50 wipedown on my test spot to make sure the defects weren't filled by 80 (and they never are if broken down properly in my experience). I'm very "fluent" with the PC so I'm 100% positive that the swirls were removed and not filled.
Click to expand...





You'd be surprised what #80 fills that sometimes a 50/50 wipedown in a test area may not reveal. I have done more testing of this recently and Todd is right, its absolutely amazing how much normal abrasive polishes fill even when you break down the abrasives fully (dont even try to tell me I dont work them long enough).



It isnt intentional with products like optimum and menzerna, its just the lubricating oils etc... that are filling. However, #80 has some intentional fillers along with it's abrasives.



if you really want to test for fillers, wipe down liberally with griots paint prep.





As for ONR, ONR with a GS is terrible IMO, but sheepskin+ONR is amazing for me.
 
I had the same issue with ONR not having enough lube. Someone suggested pre-soaking each area with ONR QD and it worked like a charm. No scratches since.
 
Scottwax said:
Has enough lubrication for me to use at wash strength (not QD strength) as a clay lube. I've probably washed close to 2000 cars with ONR since it came out and I have had no problems. :nixweiss



==================



I have found that waffle weaves are not ideal for ONR since they have so little nap. Regular MFs work a lot better. In addition, when making your first drying pass, make sure some moisture is left on the paint for the second drying pass or you can get drying streaks...in fact, I think what you may be seeing are drying streaks. Try some OD and see if that removes what you are seeing.



My 626 had super soft paint too, and I found that I could actually wash it more gently with ONR since I could see exactly what I was doing the whole time-no suds in the way.
Click to expand...



You may be right, it could just be streaking.....pretty sure it's not but I'll double check. It will have to wait until next wash since it's really dusty again.





ron231 said:
You'd be surprised what #80 fills that sometimes a 50/50 wipedown in a test area may not reveal. I have done more testing of this recently and Todd is right, its absolutely amazing how much normal abrasive polishes fill even when you break down the abrasives fully (dont even try to tell me I dont work them long enough).



It isnt intentional with products like optimum and menzerna, its just the lubricating oils etc... that are filling. However, #80 has some intentional fillers along with it's abrasives.



if you really want to test for fillers, wipe down liberally with griots paint prep.





As for ONR, ONR with a GS is terrible IMO, but sheepskin+ONR is amazing for me.
Click to expand...



I know that they were not filled. Don't know how to express that more. I've used #80 before many times on mine and many other vehicles and have always had good luck. I tried SFX-2 also and it removed them the same (no fillers), but the 80 worked better in the cold than SFX-2. Also the areas that got poliseal at speed 6 on LC White pad would have removed any fillers and no swirls reappeared.



I don't think people are realizing how hairline these swirls are compared to what we see on customer cars. These are very, very minor and nowhere near the type of swirls that I just polished out. I polished out swirls from 5 months of winter ice, quick washing, etc.... and they were pretty bad....the ones that returned are very minor, in the direction of the wash, and clearly not the same swirls if you could have seen both.



Oh, and this last ONR wash was with the Sheepsking mitt, not the Grout Sponge, so we can take that variable out.



iamwiz82 said:
I had the same issue with ONR not having enough lube. Someone suggested pre-soaking each area with ONR QD and it worked like a charm. No scratches since.
Click to expand...



I do pre-soak the panels with ONR QD, but it doesn't seem to have helped.
 
If you get a foam gun you can use Accumulator's borderline Obsessive Compulsive :) method to swirl free washing. If you don't know what I am talking about, do a search of threads started bv Accum.
 
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