Nick’s unsolicited Zaino tips and tricks

The better you start with, the better Z will help you.

Try some z5 on the swirl marks. If it fills it in, great. The SMR for light colored cars by hand really can't hurt you, so there is really no harm I can think of to putting down a few coats of it. SMR removes the marks, Z5 just fills in.



Make the call that way.



Hope that helps. Talk to Sal or Ira at Zaino too...great guys.



Btw, if you are going to be doing mega coats..get the ZFX...3 coats in 24 hrs is LOTS faster than Z1.



I'm no expert, but have done a bit of chatting with Zaino guys...feel free to PM me as well.
 
94NDTA - -



What jnstella said dovetails with my experience. My roadster is Jet Black, so it shows each and every one of my mistakes - and there have been a lot of them.



Be careful with the clay! It’s safe and easy, but if you don’t use enough lubricant, don’t stretch and fold frequently enough, or use too much pressure you can cause a lot of marring. I prefer a Z-7/water solution for the lube. It won’t detract from the clay’s stickiness and I think that it provides better paint protection than using a QD or dedicated lubricant.



After the claying you can either do the whole car with SMR, or just go around a hit the spots that are in need of attention. If you look at the surface under a bright light or with a magnifying glass (or both) you’ll see that the SMR leaves a haze of very fine marring on the paint. Do the entire car with a very fine polish such as P21S GEPC, S100 SEPC, or Platinum Ultimate Paint Pre-Cleaner and the SMR haze will be gone. Now you can go over the entire car with 3M IHG or just work on the more visible marks. When finished with this step you’ll need to do a Z-7 wash and Z-6 wipe down to get rid of the abrasive residues from the SMR and cleaner, and the oils from the cleaner and IHG. Don’t use Dawn because it will strip the IHG filler, do use a mild Z-7 solution. Be careful to use only light pressure so that you don’t introduce more swirls on your now almost perfect paint.



Z-5 does a very poor job of filling swirls - takes several coats, but will eventually work. Use Z-1 or ZFX for your first 3-4 coats, then every 6-8 coats thereafter. On my black paint I use 3 or 4 coats of Z-5 and then one of Z-2. On your white paint the reverse might be best.



Good luck and have fun!
 
Couple more thoughts:



On the clay, forget the usual "fold & flatten" technique. Take a new bar, flatten it somewhat, then cut it into squares or strips. Flatten those out to use. When one gets nasty, throw it out and get a new piece. Folding and such is just asking for some nastiness to sneak back onto your paint. But man, nick is right...lube lube lube. Sounds like a porno, but you get the point.:eek:



For what it is worth, I use ZFX on every coat. But then again, I never put any Z2 on unless I have time for 3 coats, so ZFX is key for me. Also, my garage in my complex has an open part, so gets mildly dusty overnight...sitting for 6 hrs or whatever to let it cure w/o ZFX is asking for dust to work in.



Just two more cents worth...
 
As usual jnstella makes some very astute comments!



Clarification of ‘stretch and fold’ as it applies to automotive clay:

Clay is not the PlayDough you played with when you were six years old! Then you wadded the clay into a ball and then flattened it into the shape that you wanted. From posts that I’ve seen on this and other detailing boards this is what many people do with car clay, and it will lead to disaster since the debris gets distributed throughout the clay! Stretching and folding car clay requires a special technique.



Use one side only of your rectangular clay bar. When it picks up a little debris it is time to get a clean surface. Grasp the longer sides of the bar and pull them in opposite directions carefully stretching the bar evenly until it’s size is approximately doubled. Now fold it in half so that the dirty surface is now in the middle of the clay and you have two debris free surfaces. Again, use only one side and when it gets a little dirty, stretch and fold again. After 3-5 cycles you won’t be able to get a clean surface when stretching and it’s time to throw the clay away.



What I do with a new clay bar before first use is flatten it and cut it into smaller blocks of about 50 gm each, and then flatten and shape each smaller bar into a rectangle that is about twice as long as it is wide. Having the extra bars is good insurance in the event that you drop one.
 
Nick T and jnstella I've been reading this post for the past few days and let me tell you, it is great stuff !! I've also read the zaino bros website, lazaino, the zaino manual by autopia and a few articles here and there.



I'm getting ready for my first Zaino application. Any tips, tricks, advice would be appreciated. I picked up my car in November of 2002 and have only been able to wash it a few times. Most of the winter it's been in the garage (luckily). It's got 2000 miles on

the odo.



MY Basic Gear:



CMA Foam Applicators

ZFX, Z2, Z5, Z6, Z7

100% Fieldcrest White Towels

Various CMA MF towels

Griot's Waffle Weave Dry towel

Griot's Washmitt (sheepskin I think)

Mother's Car Wash

Pinnacle Clay

Pinnacle Lube

Dawn



There is no 3M SMR or IHG in my plan because

a) I don't fully understand it yet. I like to research to the nth degree.

b) I'm afraid of messing it up.

c) I don't really see any swirl marks or imperfections (Maybe I'm not looking at it correctly).



So here is my gameplan:



Day 1:

1. Wash car with Mothers and leave wet (Should I use Z7 here ?)

2. Pinnacle Poly Clay/lube (probably going to cut the clay as mentioned above in case of a dropped bar)

3. Wash car with Dawn and Dry. *** How much DAWN per gallon should I use ? ***

4. ZFX/Z5 - apply (foam applicators) wait (smear test) and buff, then Z6 (apply/buff). Do 2 or 3 coats depending on the amount I have left (I have a roof to do). As far as the waiting, I'm guessing with the ZFX, by the time I finish applying, the section I started will be dry or wait 10, 20 min or so. Guess I have to see when I do it. After 2nd or 3rd coat, finish with Z6 and buff out. Let it rest overnight.



Day 2:

5. Is it important to wash even though it's been garaged ?

If so, then a Z7 wash and dry. If not, then a Z6 apply/buff.

6. ZFX/Z2 - apply wait and buff, then Z6. Same as above, 2 or 3 coats.



Is the last thing you do Z6 or Z2, I've read that Z2 should be last.



btw: Nick T and jnstella do you guyz have pics of your cars ? Those are sweeet rides !!!



Please look at my webpage (signature) for any other suggestions with the color.



Any comments would be much appreciated

Thanks
 
SK2003TypeS said:
CMA Foam Applicators

ZFX, Z2, Z5, Z6, Z7

100% Fieldcrest White Towels

Various CMA MF towels

Griot's Waffle Weave Dry towel

Griot's Washmitt (sheepskin I think)

Mother's Car Wash

Pinnacle Clay

Pinnacle Lube

Dawn
Click to expand...
I would replace all of the cotton, wool, and foam stuff with microfiber. Much less chance of marring!



SK2003TypeS said:
There is no 3M SMR or IHG in my plan because

a) I don't fully understand it yet. I like to research to the nth degree.

b) I'm afraid of messing it up.

c) I don't really see any swirl marks or imperfections (Maybe I'm not looking at it correctly).
Click to expand...
There is no need to skip the SMR and IHG. They are both easy and safe to use - even for a first time user. Follow the instructions (but use microfiber) and practice on an inconspicuous area until you feel comfortable.



SK2003TypeS said:
So here is my gameplan:

Day 1:

1. Wash car with Mothers and leave wet (Should I use Z7 here ?)

2. Pinnacle Poly Clay/lube (probably going to cut the clay as mentioned above in case of a dropped bar)

3. Wash car with Dawn and Dry. *** How much DAWN per gallon should I use ? ***

4. ZFX/Z5 - apply (foam applicators) wait (smear test) and buff, then Z6 (apply/buff). Do 2 or 3 coats depending on the amount I have left (I have a roof to do). As far as the waiting, I'm guessing with the ZFX, by the time I finish applying, the section I started will be dry or wait 10, 20 min or so. Guess I have to see when I do it. After 2nd or 3rd coat, finish with Z6 and buff out. Let it rest overnight.



Day 2:

5. Is it important to wash even though it's been garaged ?

If so, then a Z7 wash and dry. If not, then a Z6 apply/buff.

ZFX/Z2 - apply wait and buff, then Z6. Same as above, 2 or 3 coats.
Click to expand...
Use Dawn for the first wash as it will make your claying easier. No need to wash after claying if you follow with SMR and IHG. Wash again using Z-7 then wipe down with Z-6 prior to laying down the first layer of Z-5/ZFX. Wipe down with Z-6 between each coat of Zaino and after the final layer. On your dark paint I’d recommend 3 layers of Z-5 topped with a final layer of Z-2.



Zaino will not hide micro-marirng! If anything it will call attention to each and every minor swirl and scratch! If you don’t deal with them before Zainoing, then you’ll have to start over again. I recommend that you get a very bright (200W or brighter) hand held work light and closely examine your paint from various angles while holding the light at different angles, then deal with the marring using SMR on a spot basis rather than doing the entire car. Follow with one or two applications of IHG. IHG leaves oils on the surface which will keep the Zaino from bonding properly, so a Z-7 wash and Z-6 wipe down are necessary.



Use only very light pressure when washing, drying, applying, and buffing. A firmer pressure is needed with the SMR and IHG. If any product is difficult to buff off do not use more pressure, continue with a light pressure and maybe use a little Z-6 as an aid. Be sure to keep your tools scrupulously clean!



Do it carefully and your dark blue paint will look great! Have fun doing it!
 
Well, thanks for the compliments, but really Nick is the pro here. I echo pretty much everything he said, though I might personally use Dawn instead of Z7 after the clay, just to get rid of any of that crap. Oh, and read about the clay. Literally NO PRESSURE. Let it almost float. Your car is new, so likely it will just glide over the top. You will feel any rough spots...just move back and forth with no pressure, it will work it's way smooth. RESIST THE URGE TO PRESS DOWN. CLay is great and easy to use, but IT CAN MESS UP YOUR PAINT. DOn't be scared, just respectful.



Yeah, microfiber the way to go.



SMR is fine by hand...pretty hard to mess things up. Apply like it says, but not in circles, or at least end in straight lines, like the Z.



I always wash after overnight, 'cuz my stationary car seems to be in the way of stuff floating in the air.



Don't worry about how much Dawn...just squirt some in a bucket. Be sure to use the 2 bucket wash system and such, and just rinse really well.



With ZFX, you can basically start taking off as soon as you are all the way around the car. If it buffs off REALLY easily, it is ready. If not, come back in 5. I always end with Z6.



Also, you will find that you use less and less Z with consecutive coats. I switched to the syringe, but before when I was in the bottle, I used to be up to the number 5 for 3 coats, then down to 4, and before I switched to syringe, I was at #3 for three coats. I think that is something like 1/4 oz per coat or thereabouts (keep in mind I have no roof, either).



Thanks to Nick, I am using waaay less pressure to buff off than I was before, but I'm still learning about micro marring vs. micro scratches...Nick, anything you can elaborate on here?



:wavey
 
Nick T. said:
Use IHG to deal with it, wipe off the oils using a QD, and top with a protective layer of Zaino. When you start doing this you'll probably see the marring partially reappear after wiping with the QD. That's because the oils were hiding it. Just rub on some more IHG and check again. IHG is not a "magic product", but it is the best that I've found for filling micro-marring on a spot basis.
Click to expand...



Sal Zaino states without question that use of IHG between layers of Zaino will inhibit the bonding of subsequent layers. I have found this to be true myself. He says your wasting your time. Your thoughts?
 
jnstella said:
Well, thanks for the compliments, but really Nick is the pro here.
Click to expand...
Far from being a pro, but I do experiment a lot.



For some claying hints read this claying post.



jnstella said:
SMR is fine by hand...pretty hard to mess things up. Apply like it says, but not in circles, or at least end in straight lines, like the Z.
Click to expand...
When using SMR or IHG I start in circles, then go in straight lines, both left/right and up/down. I’m not sure that this is best, but my thinking is that it approaches the marring from all angles.



jnstella said:
I always wash after overnight, 'cuz my stationary car seems to be in the way of stuff floating in the air.
Click to expand...
IMO a light wipe down with Z-6 (or other appropriate QD) is less risky than a wash and dry. Living up in the hills in horse, livestock, and wild animal country I have a lot of dust to deal with.



jnstella said:
With ZFX, you can basically start taking off as soon as you are all the way around the car. If it buffs off REALLY easily, it is ready. If not, come back in 5. I always end with Z6.
Click to expand...
To test Zaino (with or without Z-1 or ZFX) do Mr. Z’s “finger test� - wipe a spot with your finger and if it leaves a shiny, smudge free surface, then the product is ready to remove.



jnstella said:
I am using waaay less pressure to buff off than I was before, but I'm still learning about micro marring vs. micro scratches...Nick, anything you can elaborate on here?
Click to expand...
As I was breaking my “rub harder� habit I tried to stay constantly aware of the muscle tension in my arm and wrist. At the slightest sign of tightening I’d stop wiping and shake my arm and wrist to loosen up, then start over. It helps to think in terms of wiping off the product instead of buffing. When washing (I use a twice folded 16�x16� MF towel instead of a mitt) I use only the weight of the wet towel on horizontal surfaces, and only enough pressure to maintain contact with the paint on the vertical surfaces.

<center>Microfiber does not cause scratches, people cause scratches!</center>
 
Brad B. said:
Sal Zaino states without question that use of IHG between layers of Zaino will inhibit the bonding of subsequent layers. I have found this to be true myself. He says your wasting your time. Your thoughts?
Click to expand...
When I first started using Zaino a cat jumped on my hood and left a 9� line of claw marks as it slid off. The scratches were pretty deep. My approach was every once in awhile to go down to the garage and apply 3-6 layers of IHG, wipe with a Z-7 solution, wipe again with Z-6, then 2-3 layers of Z-1/Z-5. It took maybe 30-40 repeats of this cycle (maybe 150 coats of IHG and 75 layers of Z-1/Z-5), but finally the claw scratches were no longer visible. IHG with the oils washed off and topped with Zaino is how I’ve dealt with marring on a spot basis ever since. Heavy rubbing with the Z-7 solution or Z-6 will remove IHG’s filler, but after being topped with Zaino the IHG will take more abuse.



At the time when I dealt with the cat scratches I was afraid to play with even a mild abrasive, but have since learned that there are better ways to deal with anything worse than micro-marring than endlessly applying IHG!



I’ve talked with Mr. Z a couple of times, and when I’ve brought up my IHG experiences he has pretty much blown me off. Kinda like his attitude about microfiber. :nixweiss
 
IHG is a great product. But it's a temporary solution. And it's best used as a topcoat not a basecoat. The structure of the fillers are not solid they are fluid. They will move and disipate under any coating you try to put over them. In fact, putting one layer of filler over another moves the previously layed filler around again. Think of it as adding sand to a sandbox. It never totally sets up solid hard. Just washing oils of the top isn't going to happen. It's all through it.



IHG will dissipate naturally and wash away after several washes. It has a very low durability. That's why it's often sold and marketed as a "show car" glaze product. It's good for show day to hide the defects.



Adding multiple layers of IHG is useless. It gets to a point where the fillers will not support themselves especially if they have no support of a indentation to hold them. Try blowing sand on glass.



So the question is can you add Zaino on top of this coating of IHG. Of course you can. Will it stick. Sure. Will it be as optically clear? No. Will it bond properly? No. Will Zaino be as durable and give as long lasting protection? No. You will definitely lose some value.



So, I feel the best answer to the swirls and scratches issue is to remove them completely prior to applying any wax or sealant. Z5, though limited in ability, can help hide some but even Sal admits that if Z5 doesn't work after two or three coats it will not help to apply any more.



Nick- I know Sal comes off as sort of a brash kind of guy but he's really quite personable once you get to know him. Great guy. I have had a recent discussion on this very topic and his findings were quite clear. I don't doubt the man or the chemists to created the product. He does very elaborate testing. Far better than you or I can do. We've discussed it on several occasions. It's quite impressive.



Larry- Many years ago I fooled around with many different layering techniques (under Zaino and other Sealants) on different paint test panels. It was fun. But the clarity differences on different colors and the durability faltered tremendously.
 
Brad B. said:
IHG is a great product. But it's a temporary solution. And it's best used as a topcoat not a basecoat. The structure of the fillers are not solid they are fluid. They will move and disipate under any coating you try to put over them. In fact, putting one layer of filler over another moves the previously layed filler around again. Think of it as adding sand to a sandbox. It never totally sets up solid hard. Just washing oils of the top isn't going to happen. It's all through it.



IHG will dissipate naturally and wash away after several washes. It has a very low durability. That's why it's often sold and marketed as a "show car" glaze product. It's good for show day to hide the defects.



Adding multiple layers of IHG is useless. It gets to a point where the fillers will not support themselves especially if they have no support of a indentation to hold them. Try blowing sand on glass.



So the question is can you add Zaino on top of this coating of IHG. Of course you can. Will it stick. Sure. Will it be as optically clear? No. Will it bond properly? No. Will Zaino be as durable and give as long lasting protection? No. You will definitely lose some value.



So, I feel the best answer to the swirls and scratches issue is to remove them completely prior to applying any wax or sealant. Z5, though limited in ability, can help hide some but even Sal admits that if Z5 doesn't work after two or three coats it will not help to apply any more.



Nick- I know Sal comes off as sort of a brash kind of guy but he's really quite personable once you get to know him. Great guy. I have had a recent discussion on this very topic and his findings were quite clear. I don't doubt the man or the chemists to created the product. He does very elaborate testing. Far better than you or I can do. We've discussed it on several occasions. It's quite impressive.



Larry- Many years ago I fooled around with many different layering techniques (under Zaino and other Sealants) on different paint test panels. It was fun. But the clarity differences on different colors and the durability faltered tremendously.
Click to expand...



Great way of putting things in perspective Brad :xyxthumbs
 
SMR is not "used under Zaino" actually. It's an abrasive used prior to a Zaino application in an attempt to flatten, remove or reduce swirls and scratches. It's a great product.



I remove 98% of my paint damage with two products 3M Finesse It and 3M Swirl Mark Remover.



I also like Pinnacle Paint Cleanser for haze removal. It has little abrasives but a fair amount of cleaners and solvents in it.
 
Hmmm.....

Guess I'm going to pick up some 3M SMR and IHG. Not sure if I'm going to use it. It all depends on how my paint looks and feels after I clay and wash.



I recently just bought some of thos CMA foam pads. I bought these after reading a few posts. It was given thumbs up and all that jazz and seemed pretty easy/straight forward.

So if I were to switch to MF as an applicator, should I get the Viper MF applicators (from CMA) or can I just wrap the MF towels I already have around the foam pads ? Sorry if I sound cheap, but I just don't want to waste those things.



For the clay tips, yes, I've heard that you should lube and lube again (nice post Nick T). So thanks for the reenforced comments. Also the tips on the "wiping" instead of "buffing". As far as pressure goes, when I wash my car I usually just let the weight of the water and mitt do all the work. I'm just guiding it.



I just realized, if I am going to do a few coats of Z5 and Z2, how many towels am I going to need ? Any base number for a typical newbie ? Thanks
 
SK2003TypeS said:
I recently just bought some of thos CMA foam pads. So if I were to switch to MF as an applicator, should I get the Viper MF applicators (from CMA) or can I just wrap the MF towels I already have around the foam pads ?



I just realized, if I am going to do a few coats of Z5 and Z2, how many towels am I going to need ? Any base number for a typical newbie ?
Click to expand...
For application of finer polish, cleaners, and wax/sealant I’ve recently switched to using a 16�x16� MF towel cut into 8� squares. Makes it much easier to maintain a light pressure and gives a better feel for the surface.



For polishing this is what I suggest: SMR on a foam pad, then again on a MF pad. Follow with GEPC/SEPC or your choice of cleaners on an 8� MF towel. Finish with glaze on another 8� MF towel.



You can’t have too many MF towels. A dozen minimum, twice that is better. Also waffle weave MF for drying - one Big Blue and one Little Blue.



Good luck and have fun!
 
ok, great, then I guess I have some use for the foam.



You can’t have too many MF towels. A dozen minimum, twice that is better. Also waffle weave MF for drying - one Big Blue and one Little Blue.
Click to expand...



I figured I'd get that response....hehe. You can never have enough stuff!! Ok, guess I gotta gear up then. :D (add to cart !! add to cart !! add to cart !!)



I have griot's waffle weave. But seems Big Blue takes the cake.



Good luck and have fun!
Click to expand...



Thanx. I'm aiming to be the guy at work with the slickest ride. Don't think that's too hard since I already get the "where do you get your car detailed ?" line, and all I do is wash it !
 
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