New to Porter Cable

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sd37

New member
Hey there. I ordered the Porter Cable 7424XP + pad kit from your site. I am now having trouble deciding on what kind of products I want to use with it.

I have an 07 Victory Red vette and I want to have a nice deep liquid shine. Ive been reading that sealants seem to give a very superficial shine, but not a deep one. Waxes seem to be best at giving that deep liquid luster that I am looking for.

I have been thinking of ordering the Menzerna final polish II and the menzerna glaze...but I am unsure of the wax I need to use.

I am using the final polish to remove some very light swirl lines made by previous washing and drying, and the glaze to prep the surface for a good deep shine. I have heard, however, that some product brands sometimes done work well together, and that sticking with the same brand name is best.

I had thought about just getting the Menzerna kit that contains the final polish, the glaze and FMJ, but since FMJ is a sealant, I wasnt sure if it would produce the deep liquid shine that I am looking for.

If it does not, which wax would be recommended for use with the Menzerna products?

Next, since this is my first time using a machine polisher, when applying a polish or a glaze...how long do you spend going over an area? Is there a certain time limit, or do you just keep going over the area until the results you want are achieved? Will going over an area for too long cause damage to the clear coat or paint?

Lastly, do you apply the product by machine and then buff off by hand or do you put it on AND take it off with the machine?

thank you

...sd
 
Hey SD... Welcome to TID!

Next, since this is my first time using a machine polisher, when applying a polish or a glaze...how long do you spend going over an area? Is there a certain time limit, or do you just keep going over the area until the results you want are achieved? Will going over an area for too long cause damage to the clear coat or paint?

Lastly, do you apply the product by machine and then buff off by hand or do you put it on AND take it off with the machine?
Click to expand...

I apply most products by PC and remove by hand. Not always true, but most times.

It would be pretty hard to burn through the paint with a PC... that's why I bought one! They are pretty safe!

Here's are some really good links that will teach you all about Polishing:

http://properautocare.com/remswiruspor.html

http://properautocare.com/remscratwitp.html

http://properautocare.com/maxsurglosus.html

http://properautocare.com/rempaindefus.html

http://properautocare.com/resduloxpain1.html
 
so do i need to compound first? or can i get by with just the final polish?

i dont know if I really have "swirl marks" perse. it's those little very fine lines that you see when you look at paint in the sun. i dont know if you would consider those "swirl marks", or just light surface abrasions. either way, appreciate the tip and I will read those articles you linked to.

also, anyone have any input on if the menzerna kit would be a good kit to do a complete process? again, im not sure if I want to use the FMJ as since it is a sealant it may not give me the deep luster that I want. Looking for a good wax that can be used in conjunction with the menzerna polish and glaze.

oh, another question....can you apply paste wax with a PC or do you really need to stick to liquid wax?

thanks! :smile:
 
SD37, Now that you got your PC I see that your having problems deciding on what to get. I recommend the Menzerna Get Acquainted Kit since it's a small amount of polish and it's well priced. For a wax/sealent go with either FMJ ( I use that product on my PU) or BlackFire wet diamond and follow with Midnight sun (I use that product on my wifes SUV). Pads are if you are using the Menzerna IP then orange, Final Cut II while and applying wax or sealent red. All sizes 6 to 6.5 in. Just remember that the PC will not generate enough heat to remove any paint and apply at least 15lbs pressure to work the polish in. This is a safe product for movice users. Good luck and enjoy shinning up your vehicles.
 
sd37 said:
Hey there. I ordered the Porter Cable 7424XP + pad kit from your site. I am now having trouble deciding on what kind of products I want to use with it.
Click to expand...


Congrats on the new purchase and welcome to the forum!

I have an 07 Victory Red vette and I want to have a nice deep liquid shine. Ive been reading that sealants seem to give a very superficial shine, but not a deep one. Waxes seem to be best at giving that deep liquid luster that I am looking for.
Click to expand...

Awesome ride! I am a huge Vette guy myself and have detailed a couple Victory Red C6's. Here are a couple pictures of a Victory Red roadster that I detailed a week ago.

d1-1.jpg


d2.jpg


d3-1.jpg


d4-1.jpg


The truth is that most of that 'deep' luster is created in the polishing step itself. It is my opinion that 90% or more of the final appearance comes before any wax or sealant is added.

Blackfire's Wet Diamond Sealant is one sealant that produces a very high shine (typical of sealants) but also offers that liquid depth. It is very unique and carnauba like in appearance, kind of a deep shimmer.

Waxes, as a by product of the oils they are mixed with, tend to provide a slight distortion, similar to water. This refraction can give the reflections the appearance that further 'in' the paint.

If you really want the best of both worlds I would look at Blackfire's Wet Ice over Fire combo kit. Here are some threads with cars I have detailed using this amazing kit. The combination of the amazing looking sealant topped with a top shelf carnauba wax that was designed to bond onto of the sealant produces a very nice 3 dimension, super deep look.

Here are a couple threads of cars I have detailed with this kit.

Blackfire General Picture Thread
Blackfire on Blue
Blackfire on Silver
Blackfire on Yellow

I have been thinking of ordering the Menzerna final polish II and the menzerna glaze...but I am unsure of the wax I need to use.
Click to expand...

Even the Porter Cable XP is going to be a very safe machine, and doesn't have a lot of power. Because the Corvette tends to be very hard you are probably not going to get a lot of swirl correction using Final Polish II and a Porter Cable. Even with a rotary polisher and an aggressive pad, it is difficult to get Final Polish II to correct swirl marks on the Corvette's typical diamond hard paint.

I would recommend picking up Meguiars M105 Ultra Cut Compound, as it is the most aggressive product (although it is very unique in its aggressiveness) that can be used to remove swirl marks. The hard paint on your Corvette is going to love the way this polish works. Instead of using the Glaze, I would use Meguiars M205 Ultra Finishing Polish. This will permanently remove the ultra fine swirl marks and create true gloss!

I am using the final polish to remove some very light swirl lines made by previous washing and drying, and the glaze to prep the surface for a good deep shine. I have heard, however, that some product brands sometimes done work well together, and that sticking with the same brand name is best.
Click to expand...

Final Polish II can remove some swirl marks on very soft paints as well as on fresh paint, but as typically used by detailers and enthusiasts its primary function its to remove the finest marring, often caused by machine polishing with a more aggressive product, to provide the highest gloss possible.

With the large number products and possible combinations available, it is very possible to get confused. Every brand carried by Proper Auto Care has been tested by some of the top detailers in the country, including 4 of Auto Week's Top 9. So whatever brand you choose you can rest assured it is amongst the best, and if you ever want to mix and match them, you can always ask our experts for advice.

I had thought about just getting the Menzerna kit that contains the final polish, the glaze and FMJ, but since FMJ is a sealant, I wasnt sure if it would produce the deep liquid shine that I am looking for.
Click to expand...

FMJ has been around for a while and has a very loyal following. It produces a liquid crystal look and does have good depth. I still prefer the Blackfire Wet Diamond sealant because it looks at least as good and will last longer. Both sealants have a carnauba like glow on their own. Blackfire can be used in place the Menzerna with no worries.


If it does not, which wax would be recommended for use with the Menzerna products?
Click to expand...

For the best of both worlds, I would get the Blackfire Wet Ice over Fire Kit which is a combination of both the Blackfire Wet Diamond Sealant and Blackfire Midnight Sun (Batch 24) Carnauba Paste.

Next, since this is my first time using a machine polisher, when applying a polish or a glaze...how long do you spend going over an area?
Click to expand...

When you are applying a 'glaze' you are burnishing oils on to the surface (these oils will mask some swirl marks). You want to apply a very thin, even, layer then remove. There is no need, unless specified by the manufacturer, to continue to work the polish in over and over.

When you are polishing the paint you actually removing small, trace amounts of paint. This requires working the polish over the paint repeatedly with pressure.

Here is a write up I did using M105/M205 on a Flex Dual Action Polisher. It covers a lot of the basics regarding using these polishes with a dual action polisher. For the Porter Cable you will use slightly slower arm speed and more pressure.

Polishing a Corvette with M105/M205

Here are a couple good threads regarding the uses of a Porter Cable and it's technique. Worth the read through.

First Time Porter Cable Experience and Questions

Using Proper Pressure on a Porter Cable

Is there a certain time limit, or do you just keep going over the area until the results you want are achieved? Will going over an area for too long cause damage to the clear coat or paint?
Click to expand...

If you are using Menzerna you want to buff long enough to break down the abrasives (so that they leave behind a very refined surface) but not so long that the surface becomes dry. In general you will polish until the film on the paint becomes opaque.

With Meguiars M105 and M205, the longer you use them the more they cut (the abrasives don't break down) so you can stop once the polish starts to dry out or the defects are removed. If you notice the polish is drying up, but the defects are still there, then reapply the fresh polish and continue working.

Lastly, do you apply the product by machine and then buff off by hand or do you put it on AND take it off with the machine?

thank you


...sd
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When you are machine polishing, you will apply the product to the pad, then buff a small section, using over lapping strokes. Remove the residue immediately with a clean microfiber towel before polishing the next section. Also when you first start to polish your Vette, polish a small test section first, and dial in your technique. This beats doing the whole car, only to find out that umpteen hours later, you didn't get the results you where after.

To recap, I would pick up Meguiars M105 UCC and Meguiars M205, and consider picking up Blackfire Wet Diamond Sealant (or the full Wet Ice over Fire) instead of Menzerna products. You will get better results, IME, in less time, and be floored by the look!
 
Im sold! :thumbup::thumbup:

I called up there and not suprisingly, this is EXACTLY what Angelo said. This goes to show that you are not just a "shop" trying to sell some products. Alot of times you will talk to two people who work in the same place and they will give you different versions of how you should do the task. Here you have two different people who have recommended the exact same process and the exact same products to use. This conveys that you guys have a process in mind and know what products to use with certain types of vehicles.

After talking to Angelo, and finding out that the Corvette has a very hard clear coat surface, he recommended the M105 compound.

As such, I just placed an order for my M102/M205, some more Lake Country pads, a bottle of Wet Diamond sealant, and a blackfire clay bar kit.

Cant wait to get into this and see what it will do.

Thanks guys! :thumbup::):)
 
sd37 said:
Im sold! :thumbup::thumbup:

I called up there and not suprisingly, this is EXACTLY what Angelo said. This goes to show that you are not just a "shop" trying to sell some products. Alot of times you will talk to two people who work in the same place and they will give you different versions of how you should do the task. Here you have two different people who have recommended the exact same process and the exact same products to use. This conveys that you guys have a process in mind and know what products to use with certain types of vehicles.

After talking to Angelo, and finding out that the Corvette has a very hard clear coat surface, he recommended the M105 compound.

As such, I just placed an order for my M102/M205, some more Lake Country pads, a bottle of Wet Diamond sealant, and a blackfire clay bar kit.

Cant wait to get into this and see what it will do.

Thanks guys! :thumbup::):)
Click to expand...

I'm glad Angelo was able to help you out! At Proper Auto Care we work with some of the best detailers in the country and employee some great ones as well. You can count on the information we provide as being factual and based on experience, vs. reguritating other people's suggestions or even worse, spewing forth product manfacturers marketing.

Angelo is a top tier detailer who gets it, and he will help you take your Vette to the next level!
 
Thank you for calling today sd37, also thank you for your comment from your experience today with me. Anything you need just drop a line to me...
 
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