My "Gun Ban" Rant....

JuneBug said:
Let me add, my wife is an elementary school teacher, been one for 27 years, and she was mad as hell with the lame stream media for detailing all their procedures they have in place for lock downs. Why not just put a map out front and a invite the next copy cat killer in. The whole gun free zone is nothing but a sham, what if a teacher or maintenance guy, coach, etc had a concealed pistol and shot that sub human coward in Conn, but noooooo, can't have that. Hell, that's the one thing these punks fear. Didn't he kill himself when he heard the cops coming, pure coward. Ask yourself, when was the last time some nut tried to shoot up a police station, biker clubhouse, deer camp,



Eh....don't get me started on the pathetic pinheads that call what they do "news reporting"!! Some of the media types have their head so far up this obama's rump they have to drop his pants to talk.



I know there is a fine line in the news media reporting between what to and what not to report but I fully believe that the media creates so much hype around these lunatic killers that the next one in line sees just how famous they can become.



"No one knows me now but just wait until they see what I do, then everyone will know me!"



"Hey let's not report about the GOOD things people do with guns but rather let's report about all the bad things done with guns....let's report about all the gun toting bible thumping rednecks out there that just waiting to go postal! But....before we air that story can we make sure the armed guards we hired are all in place?"



It's so sad that a large portion of young people get their news from shows like The Daily Show, The View, The Steven Colbert Show, Jay Leno and David Letterman.
 
Nth Degree said:
Thomas Jefferson, himself, stated that there should be a revolution every 20 years. I don't think he meant to scrap it all and start from scratch, but that the laws should evolve with the times. The constitution is constantly having to be "interpreted" in areas of current technology like internet and social media. It is a necessary to have the laws evolve to keep up. But in this case, I agree with the preservation of the right to bear arms.



This came from a friend so I cannot confirm the facts, but it certainly puts things in perspective.



"A LITTLE GUN HISTORY

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. >From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!

The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'.

During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED! "












This is where I think many conservatives are so focused on being anti-Obama and claiming that HE is taking away their rights that they fail to look at the facts. He has asked Congress to review the gun restrictions and has expressed his "opinion". I have pasted the 23 executive orders below. I am curious to know exactly which ones are found to be out of line.





1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.

2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.

3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.

4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.

5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.

6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.

7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.

8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).

9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.

10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make itwidely available to law enforcement.

11. Nominate an ATF director.

12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.

13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.

14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.

15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effectiveuse of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to developinnovative technologies.

16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.

18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.

19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.

20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.

21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.

22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.

23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.






And I agree that it is good that this can be discussed rationally and calmly.



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Excellent post, I appreciate your input.



I do take issue with some, not all, of the Presidents proposals and I will try to explain that further when I get home later.
 
It is true that making something (drugs, downloading music) illegal or regulating something strictly has rarely eliminated whatever the problem trying to be addressed but usually it reduced the impact so less are hurt so some regulation is usually prudent. The problem is like our budget mess. Each side is so polarized they cannot find any common ground.
 
Nth Degree said:
This came from a friend so I cannot confirm the facts, but it certainly puts things in perspective.



"A LITTLE GUN HISTORY..... "



Nth Degree, what was sent to you is junk mail. People DO need to confirm facts. This "data" has been spamming peoples inboxes for months....and it's totally without merit. It scares me when the mentality and education of a percentage of the public take something like this at face value. THAT's frightening.



I don't mind a good discussion or debate but it seems so many people on both sides of an issue jump at stuff like this. And people wonder why we can't get anything accomplished.
 
Brad, I checked Snopes and they have this as unconfirmed - still researching. Now, I am a pretty good reader of history and when it comes to Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot and Idi Amin, those guys murdered millions - that's a fact. Russia was not as precise about record keeping so the exact number of it's people that died due to uncle Joe will probably never be known. But what they all have in common is that the state rounded up citizens and the citizens had no way to fight the armed thugs that came to cart them off.

What I feel is wrong is that, other than WWII films about the Nazis, you never see anything about Stalin's brutality or the others. People that don't know history are doomed to repeat it. I have a few friends that lived to tell how life went to hell when the guv-ment took over and they can't understand why we take our freedoms for granted. The talkin heads on the networks call folks that want to stand up to more guv-ment regulation "extremist", really? Is it extreme to NOT want to start down the slippery slope of more red tape.

Hollywood has shown the old west as daily gun fight, and more killin than a video game. Wrong, it was actually pretty boring, read some history, other than the battles between the millitary and indians, the average rancher used his guns for hunting game and shooting varmints

I have daughters, they know how to protech themselves, I would rather them have my .357 in their hands than a cell phone if some one tries to break in. Chances are they will never face that level of threat, but, I'd rather any potential bad guy realize that there's a real chance of meeting Jesus if he breaks in,
 
Great post Anthony! I agree! Banning certain types of guns and limiting what size of magazines you can own is not the answer. I think far too many people are missing the big picture here. I personally don't think we have a gun problem at all, what we have is a moral problem. I am proud to be an American and I think we live in the greatest country on earth, but I fear that if we keep on the path that we are on America will no longer be the "shining city on a hill". I am not very old at all (turn 30 this year) but the moral decay that I have seen since I was just a little kid is amazing. People now live there lives with no regard for others and care little about the consequences of their actions. Gone is the concept of personal responsibility. I personally believe this moral decay began when people started pushing God out of everything. As to guns specifically, I believe it is our right as Americans to keep and bear arms and it is nobody's business but my own as to how many guns I have, how much ammunition I keep and what size magazines I have. But I also believe it is my responsibility to make sure my guns are stored in a proper fashion, handled properly and are not easily accessed by the wrong people. When you give the government permission to take a few specific guns (or anything for that matter) it won't be long before they will be asking for a few more, and then some more until we no longer will be able to own a slingshot. Always remember this fact, those guns in Conn., Aurora, Virginia Tech or anywhere else did not grow legs and arms and walk to those places and kill those people. People kill people.
 
OK here we go.......The President is proposing the following:



Assault Weapons Ban - My issue here is that "assault" weapons in a civilian mode are already in fact "banned". The word "assault" when used in regards to say an AR-15 is a misnomer. An AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle but not an assault rifle which are used by military personel. Fully automatic weapons are illegal (unless you posses a special license) ALREADY thus the proposed ban is a crafty way to label semi-automatic rifles as "bad assault" weapons.



Lastly, AR-15 type rifles are hardly used in mass shootings but rather pistols are the gun of choice for the lunatics. So why go after them?



High Capacity Magazine Ban - The line of reasoning here is, "Less bullets means less carnage". That line of reasoning is stupid. So lets limit a magazine feed gun to shoot only 10 rounds. Do we then limit how many magazines one can buy for that gun? So I can have one pistol with 8 magazines which gives me a total of 80 bullets.....and this is different from 3 nineteen round magazines how?



Gun Traffic Law - This coming from the administration that is linked to "Fast and Furious" sure is irony, eh?



I only listed those 3 as they seem to be the biggies. Now my other issues with Obama and his proposals are......where are the ANTI-CRIMINAL portions of his proposal? I mean there is nothing in there about stricter punishment for gun related crimes.....nothing in there about criminals caught with BANNED guns......how about labeling "gangs" as terrorist organizations and hunting them down?



In other words it appears on the surface that Obama's proposals affect and fringe upon the rights of law abiding civilians and NOT THE CRIMINAL ELEMENT!!
 
JuneBug said:
Now, I am a pretty good reader of history and when it comes to Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot and Idi Amin, those guys murdered millions - that's a fact.



Oh no doubt there!



What isn't accurate is the context of the some of the statements, (as well as some dates and most numbers, but that's not my point) and the assumption that atrocities only come about or can be avoided if everyone has weapons. This is far too over-simplified. There are a variety of mitigating factors (socio-economic, political, religious, cultural, education, communication, etc) that are all part of these historical events. You just can't quote from the last page of a book and think you know all that happened.
 
DRT said:
But I also believe it is my responsibility to make sure my guns are stored in a proper fashion, handled properly and are not easily accessed by the wrong people.



Which is great! Unfortunately there are a lot of gun owners who don't take that responsibility seriously enough. Which is where some degree of regulation and enforcement does have to come into play from somewhere. We simply can't have a free-for-all when it comes to this stuff.
 
I'm glad I live where I do in Texas. I'd lose my mind if I had to listen to all this nonsense on a daily basis. Any person that thinks banning guns or something as dumb as limiting mag cap needs to get outdoors more and go enjoy some fresh air. What needs to happen is all these actors talking crap about gun control right up the pres butt, but wait where they just in a movie with guns killing people?! Yes they were, hypocrites. Kids grow up these days living on video games killing people,, what's that teach them? Guns don't jump off your night stand and kill people, murders kill people and will find a way to do it. I hope the people that want gun control, never are faced without one when some killer walks into their home looking to do bad things to their family. Think about it, and use the brain god gave you!
 
Who believes this??

"Once upon a time the government came Knocking on our door. They told us guns were illegal now. They said only the bad guys would want a gun. "Your not a bad guy are you?" We had two shot guns and a .38 revolver. We turned them over. Our neighbors that resisted were dragged out into the street and beaten and most of those went to jail.

Once all the guns were gone the government returned and asked how many of you live here? There were 5 of us in a nice size house. They had determined that our house was too big and that we also had too many cars. Eventually we were relocated. Our stuff was taken. Our house was taken. There was nothing we could do about it."
 
C. Charles Hahn said:
Unfortunately there are a lot of gun owners who don't take that responsibility seriously enough. Which is where some degree of regulation and enforcement does have to come into play from somewhere. We simply can't have a free-for-all when it comes to this stuff.



And MOST people have the firearm skills of this guy!



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God damn it Brad, on one had you say don't make sweeping generalizations but then you go and say MOST gun owners shoot like Barney. You can't have it both ways brother. For what its worth, I don't get to target shoot nearly enough, but, basic gun safety, training, and shooting do not get forgotten, I can still kill the occasional possum when one comes around the garage. Yes, I live in the woods, another reason to teach the kids how to handle guns, police response come be a while you know.

My concern is yall don't see more regulation and more power from the Feds as a bad thing. But what do I know, I still believe in taking responsibility for yourself, spanking your kids when they deserve it, working to improve your lot in life instead of sucking on the guvment teat. In other words, I am like my dad.

Nobody is going to force you to own a gun, its a right you can chose to use or not. However, if you don't and feel its wrong, then don't me when the sh1t hits the fan.
 
LOL! You got me*. Ok, then let's start a program where everybody gets ONE bullet to keep in their pocket, like Barney, until they learn the responsibility of gun ownership. Seriously, firearm training and ownership responsibility is hugely important and I agree with many of the points in this thread regarding that.



*Actually, I would guess the NRA probably has these statistics but we'll never see them. Oops, wrong crowd!
 
I have mixed feelings about the competency issue :think:



My wife and I take it seriously. Very seriously. And I don't mean just shooting at paper targets or metal plates.



We've left shooting ranges because the other shooters were so lousy that we wondered whether we were safe. At schools, we've insisted on changes in the firing line when other students displayed unsafe gun-handling skills. (One time the guy in question was a LEO!) While I wouldn't want one of those clowns "fixing the situation" anywhere near me, when they're in their own homes I want 'em to be able to defend themselves.





Dan said:
How easy is it to get grenades?



Depends who you ask, or rather, who's doing the asking.



Mil-spec weapons are much more available that most people might think, at least within certain circles. It really is just like heroin- "normal" people can't get it but junkies can score within hours of moving into a new town.



Also, grenades and other explosive/anti-personnel devices are pretty easy to fabricate (e.g. pipebombs and other IEDs, which crop up a lot in situations involving nutso killers). A Jr. High kid can build 'em from scratch in an afternoon.
 
Some random thoughts:



I wonder how many anti-gun and pro-government supporters have actually used a firearm? And how many of them are proficient in their use?



How many anti-gun supporters have been to a firearm sporting event?



I don't own a motorcycle and think they're dangerous, but I would NEVER tell someone that they can't have one just because I don't want one.



Why aren't the politicians "cracking down" on criminals instead of the gun owners and enthusiasts?



It seems that criminals aren't being held responsible for their actions-it's all because of the guns.



Firearm safety training isn't brain surgery.
 
Fossil - I agree.....there is no "criminal" element within the anti-gun camp. It's all truly about taking weapons from those who are legal/registered gun owners. I am not trumping this up here.



Again I must ask......why are the street gangs NOT listed as a terrorist organization and gone after? Lets see.....they traffic in illegal arms, drugs, murder, human sex slaves, cyber crimes and the list goes on. All right here in our backyards.



Is it not a crime in itself that a scumbag can break into a house, be shot, live through that shooting and then possibly SUE those people who protected themselves?!



So why are we going after LAW ABIDING citizens who are responsible shooters and owners of firearms? It has been stated by many on the anti-gun camp that ANYONE owning or even wanting to own an AR-15 style gun has mental health issues. Is that not absurd?



How about we turn the tables and require EVERYONE to own a gun?



I find it odd that given the economic climate the liberal people want to shut down the one area of the economy that is consistantly growing year by year. Let's see....some gun stores report a 500% increase from last year. Gun sales hit 4.1 BILLION last year. If only solar energy or electric cars that we the people invested millions in did half as good, eh?



Anthony
 
Accumulator said:
Depends who you ask, or rather, who's doing the asking.



Mil-spec weapons are much more available that most people might think, at least within certain circles. It really is just like heroin- "normal" people can't get it but junkies can score within hours of moving into a new town.



Also, grenades and other explosive/anti-personnel devices are pretty easy to fabricate (e.g. pipebombs and other IEDs, which crop up a lot in situations involving nutso killers). A Jr. High kid can build 'em from scratch in an afternoon.



So in other words, harder to get than assault weapons :D Same can be set for full auto weapons, these killers seems to be going for the low hanging fruit for some reason. And yeah, anyone can pretty much build anything, as a 17 year old built a nuclear reactor in his back yard.
 
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