Maybe I'll leave detailing to the PROS....

I

imported_SouthernZ71

New member
After many hours and much reading, I purchased a 7424 along with the yellow pads, white pads and grey/black pads. Today was my first attempt at using the PC and let me tell you I SUCK!



Great day in my neck of the woods...75 degree weather, clear skies and not a single chance of rain....prefect!



I was going to start out with the yellow pad and DACP, but per other peoples advisories I started light and used #9 w/the yellow pad.



After dawning, claying and dawning, again, I set into the paint. Taped up all areas and started PCing away.....or so I thought......ran a small bead of #9 around the ring of the pad and smeared it over the section I wanted....set the PC to #6 and started going....worked it up, down, left, right...making sure to overlap each area...then wiped off. Hmmmm, THERE ARE STILL SWIRLS...Started the section over.....HMMMM..STILL SWIRLING?



Anyhow, to make a short story even longer, the #9 covered, TO A DEGREE, some of the heavy scratches and such, BUT DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO THE SWIRLS? I worked each area (cut the hood into 4 sections and so on) till the #9 was almost gone (45-60 seconds) and then wiped.



Did I use too much product or not enough? Should I step up to the DACP with a yellow pad?



BTW the only spot I have to work started getting some heavy sun as I was finishing the #9, so I didn't get a chance to apply wax. Would it be okay to do the wax tomorrow, pending I don't do DACP?



Thanks for the effort in reading this....
 
#9 with a PC and foam cut pad is a bit milder. From the sounds of things, move on up to DACP and foam cut pad. Then follow up with #9 if encessary.



Also how much pressure are you applying? I apply medium-heavy pressure onthe first few laps and then lighten up pressure as the polish begins to break down and polish out.



Hall of Fame section has a nice PC to remove swirls article.
 
JasonC8301 said:
#9 with a PC and foam cut pad is a bit milder. From the sounds of things, move on up to DACP and foam cut pad. Then follow up with #9 if encessary.



Also how much pressure are you applying? I apply medium-heavy pressure onthe first few laps and then lighten up pressure as the polish begins to break down and polish out.



Hall of Fame section has a nice PC to remove swirls article.
Click to expand...





here's my other post with pics: http://www.autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=263912#post263912



I started out with heavy pressure on the up/down passes x2 and the lightened up on the left/right passes X2.
 
those are more than I would call minor swirls. Definitely upgrade to DACP. You'll probably have to hit it with the SMR or lighter polish afterward to bring out the shine.



Don't worry about waxing over the spot you did already. If you're not going to drive the truck and you don't get that much dust build up, I'd start fresh with DACP when you get the chance. Otherwise rewash first.
 
Dont get discouraged! Its a skill, and like anything else it takes time to master. I thought I knew what I was doing before I found Autopia :eek:



The PC is a great tool, but its not a magic machine. It takes time to learn what combinations of products and pads do the best work.
 
WeeGee:

I'll need the truck tonight for work, but tomorrow I'll be washing and trying the DACP......so wish me luck!



GoodnClean:

Thanks for the advice, while reading I always get the impression that its not as hard as some make it out to be and then this happens. Oh well, its not like I was going to sell my PC. Better luck next time (I always say)!



thanks for the help guys
 
SouthernZ71- Yeah, it's not that YOU suck (as you put it), but rather that using the wrong PRODUCT (for the application) sucks. Generally, the first time someone takes a PC to a car they often have problems that need more than #9/SMR to remove. On some cars (Audis come to mind) you could use #9 for HOURS and not touch any real swirls.



I think people tend to overestimate what #9 and similar products can do, perhaps expecting the PC to make them behave differently than they do by hand.



Hope the DACP works better for you. Don't hesitate to use it at speed 6 and/or put some pressure on it.
 
Hey Accumulator,



Should I begin with DACP all the time to tackle any swirls/light scratches inevitable on my black Audi? I've been dissatisified with #9 for a long time ,well before I had it.



How about DACP followed by PI III MG?



TIA
 
Accumulator said:
I think people tend to overestimate what #9 and similar products can do, perhaps expecting the PC to make them behave differently than they do by hand.
Click to expand...



Yeah, thats what my expectations were. "hand makes it work well, hmmm, PC will make it work even better!" Tomorrow, I'm washing and jumping right into YELLOW?DACP combo.



BTW let me make sure, 3-4 drops on the pad, smear the product over the section I'm going for...set at 3-4 speed and rub the product in...move to 6 speed and at pressure (depending on need)...go till the product starts to get clean and wipe off? If there is no hazing, move to a wax...if there is hazing move to #9..followed by wax?



Thanks guys
 
Yeah, a pad and SMR with a PC is going to do NADA for a black Audi. I know, I have a black A8 and that is the issue I fought. I finally broke out a wool pad, got some 3M Fine Cut Rubbing Compound and went to work. Result, fine scratches, hazed surface. Broke out 3M SMR for Dark Cars, Yellow Pad, worked the SMR till almost gone. Buffed off, looked great. Finished with S100 Polish and car looked great.



Only time SMR with a white polishing pad is going to remove any scratches is when it is attached to a high speed orbital.



Good luck.



Sam
 
SamIam said:
Yeah, a pad and SMR with a PC is going to do NADA for a black Audi. I know, I have a black A8 and that is the issue I fought. I finally broke out a wool pad, got some 3M Fine Cut Rubbing Compound and went to work. Result, fine scratches, hazed surface. Broke out 3M SMR for Dark Cars, Yellow Pad, worked the SMR till almost gone. Buffed off, looked great. Finished with S100 Polish and car looked great.



Only time SMR with a white polishing pad is going to remove any scratches is when it is attached to a high speed orbital.



Good luck.



Sam
Click to expand...



He meant ahigh speed rotary like a makita 9227c, dewalt, or even the pc 7427.
 
Don't be discouraged! :) Many of us have had to go through at least some hard knocks and trial and error.

SouthernZ71 said:
I worked each area (cut the hood into 4 sections and so on) till the #9 was almost gone (45-60 seconds) and then wiped.
Click to expand...
Mirroring what other people have said, you may want to switch to DACP, maybe with just a polishing pad first. Some swirls are deep and serious enough that they'll just laugh at a swirl remover. Based on the quote above it also occurs to me that you may really not be working the product long enough. On a typical 2x2 or 2x1.5 foot section I've been spending about 3-5 minutes working in the product, not just 45-60 seconds. If the product is disappearing in this short a time, it may be because the pad isn't fully primed yet (still soaking up the product), it's too hot out or the paint is too hot, or you're not using enough product.



I haven't been using any downward pressure when I polish, but some people do. It just seems to be personal preference, so try it either way if you want. I'd just rather be gentler on my expensive hardware. :p



HTH, good luck!



PS: I don't know how much of your car you experimented on, but I hope it's only a small section. ;)



EDIT: Just about your post above, 3-4 literal tiny drops is WAY too little! It's more like 3-4 nickel sized drops or a "few lines".
 
Yeah, as said above try the DACP + yellow pad. The SMR is a very light polish that actually fills more than it polishes out the scratches.

BTW, if you plan on using a synthetic wax like Zaino or anything, your going to want to wash again with dawn after polishing because these polishes leave behind some oil residues.



The weather should be perfect again tommorow like it was today, so good luck on the second attempt.
 
4DSC said:
Don't be discouraged! :) Many of us have had to go through at least some hard knocks and trial and error.

Mirroring what other people have said, you may want to switch to DACP, maybe with just a polishing pad first. Some swirls are deep and serious enough that they'll just laugh at a swirl remover. Based on the quote above it also occurs to me that you may really not be working the product long enough. On a typical 2x2 or 2x1.5 foot section I've been spending about 3-5 minutes working in the product, not just 45-60 seconds. If the product is disappearing in this short a time, it may be because the pad isn't fully primed yet (still soaking up the product), it's too hot out or the paint is too hot, or you're not using enough product.



I haven't been using any downward pressure when I polish, but some people do. It just seems to be personal preference, so try it either way if you want. I'd just rather be gentler on my expensive hardware. :p



HTH, good luck!



PS: I don't know how much of your car you experimented on, but I hope it's only a small section. ;)



EDIT: Just about your post above, 3-4 literal tiny drops is WAY too little! It's more like 3-4 nickel sized drops or a "few lines".
Click to expand...





This is what I was going to note. Work it longer, make sure there's enough product there.



Next I'd recommend you make a black line usin a permanent marker on the pad. Make a black line near the top so you can tell if the pad is spinning in circles or not. I know with some people this is personal preference, I tried this both ways on my car. First two times I didn't let the pad rotate much. Car looked clean, paint slick, still swirled. After using a black line on the pad to be sure I could see it moving, they've drastically diminished ( I have some that are a bit too deep I think).



I also only like to remove product in one direction and it's not circular. Up and down, front to back, etc...... you may be better able to tell if you are putting swirls back in when you remove the product.



Stick with it. You'll be very excited when you get that first perfect pannel. I was.





Joe
 
Hey joe,



How would the pad spin in circles on a 7424?? I always thought it moved in a random motion inorder to protect paintwork. Is there a way to get the pad to spin in circles???



Many thanks



Gerry
 
I have been ramping up my agressiveness with the PC with better and better results each time. If you have significant swirls use DACP with whatever foam pad and work in small sections. I have been using light pressure so that the pad spins more, but I think heavy pressure may work better. You need to work each area for at least a couple minutes.



You might not want to get too crazy right away, just keep trying different combinations of PC speed, pressure, and time until you get the results you want. Trust me, it will work, but you just need practice.



Oh and I think dawn washing is unnecessary period, but double dawn washing is way overkill.
 
As others have said, try using a more aggresive pad/product combo and don't get discouraged. From your original post, I see some possible technique problems.



1. You may be using too much product if you run a bead of product around the whole pad (not sure how thick the bead is). Try 4 nickle sized dabs of product.

2. You might find it easier to start working the product for a minute or so at a lower speed, say 3 or 4 and then ramp it up to 6. Start with moderate pressure and then gradually lighten up till it's just the weight of the PC.

3. You mention that you are working the product for 45-60 seconds which is probably not long enough. It ususally takes 2-3 minutes for me to get the product to do it's thing and break down. Are you working the products in the sun? #9 should not be "gone in 60 seconds".



Give it another try and good luck. Once you get it right, you'll be very satified you did it yourself.
 
gez said:
Hey joe,



How would the pad spin in circles on a 7424?? I always thought it moved in a random motion inorder to protect paintwork. Is there a way to get the pad to spin in circles???



Many thanks



Gerry
Click to expand...





Being dual action, the pad spins in circles and oscilates, so they are not perfect circles.



Joe
 
Bill D said:
Hey Accumulator,



Should I begin with DACP all the time to tackle any swirls/light scratches inevitable on my black Audi? I've been dissatisified with #9 for a long time ,well before I had it.



How about DACP followed by PI III MG?



TIA
Click to expand...



I always hesitate to comment on DACP as I don't use it. I *THINK* it might be a bit aggressive for frequent use, even on the Audi clear. But DACP/PI-III MG should be a good combo, or try the 1Z polishes, my current faves for use on Audis.



Any way you can refine your wash/dry technique? I'm just finishing up my S8 and after nearly a year between details (only been washed and QD'ed since before last Thanksgiving) it had 5 (five) swirls on it (yes, it's silver, but I examine it under halogens and with magnification). Two appeared to be from the mechanic's fender pad, one I didn't notice until I'd already applied PUPP so I'm gonna live with it (no one else will ever see it). Now I *DO* wash it with insane care (3 hour job), but between careful care and the hard clear, I'm satisfied with 5 swirls per year. I'm not intending to pat myself on the back here, just showing that you CAN keep these things swirl-free *IF* you're very careful.
 
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