maintaining a swirl free car

M

mtbr64

New member
alright guys, ive opted to have my swirls professionally removed and i will maintain it from that point on. i just don't have the time to do it myself.



im wondering what products would you recommend for waxing and sealing the paint.



and washing



in the summer i can wax every week if i want but its the winters that are a brutal here. sand all over the roads, ice and slush. waaaaaaaaaay to cold to be waxing. even in my garage. unless i go to underground parkade and do it there



im looking for the most durable sealant possible to give me that maximum protection and a good wax that i can layer on top of the sealant to give the max shine.



also how do i go about adding these products over other products? should i do a dawn wash everytime i wanna reseal and wax?



also what applicators would you recommend as i will be applying these products by hand.



for drying are ww the only way to go or is there better alternatives that wont reswirl my paint.



essentially just looking for some killer products and applicators that are durable as hell and shine that impresses to maintain that freshly detailed look for years to come



im sorry if this has been covered guys. just looking for some specific answers to keep the paint as mint as the day it comes out of the detailer
 
mtbr64 said:
alright guys, ive opted to have my swirls professionally removed and i will maintain it from that point on...essentially just looking for some killer products and applicators that are durable as hell and shine that impresses to maintain that freshly detailed look for years to come
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IMO 99% of it will be how you wash/dry and how you and others generally behave around the vehicle (i.e., everyone knows not to touch the paint). Good products can help a bit, but it's technique that matters most.



im wondering what products would you recommend for waxing and sealing the paint...im looking for the most durable sealant possible to give me that maximum protection and a good wax that i can layer on top of the sealant to give the max shine...
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I'd use a wax/sealant that is slick and to which contamination won't stick..something with a reputation for being "self cleaning". Something durable and user-friendly enough that you won't mind using it frequently.



Off-hand, I'd probably recommend Collinite wax. I use sealants on a few of our vehicles, but I'd lean towards the Collinite (which got my Blazer through the winter just great).



..also how do i go about adding these products over other products? should i do a

dawn wash everytime i wanna reseal and wax? also what applicators would you recommend as i will be applying these products by hand...
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Every month or so just apply another coat of the Collinite. If you think the paint could use a little cleaning just clay it with Sonus Green Ultra-fine clay first. By the time this isn't enough it'll need another professional swirl-removal session. FWIW I've just been claying and reapplying LSP to some of our vehicles for a few *years*.



Regular foam wax applicators work fine. Buff off with a soft MF or a CBT.



and washing..
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A foamgun, a BHB, and some soft mitts (either sheepskin or MF or both). Use the BHB with the foamgun to remove the worst of the dirt and then use the mitt(s) with the foamgun to do a follow-up. I've gone into wash techniques on other threads and can't repeat the whole thing here, but the basic idea is to "dislodge and flush" as opposed to "scrubbing". Done properly it's not a big deal to get through winter without needing another polish, but I could never do this until I stated using the BHB/foamgun for the first passes.



Dry with a soft WW MF, blotting more than wiping.



Note that anything that touches your paint might oughta be CD-tested to make sure it won't mar, and then retested from time to time as it wears/ages.
 
For waxs I was thinking of Collonite as well. Others I think have used Aquawax as well and seem to have liked it. Sealants under those, maybe Klasse SG? Menzerna FMJ? the Zaino one? Duragloss?
 
I'm sorta getting away from the sealant/wax mix (well, no "sorta" about it ;) I just don't do it any more). I've found that Collinite waxes really do rival sealants when it comes to durability and I never had any real benefit from using both. If I put on a *lot* of layers of KSG, yeah, I get super durability, but a) sealants really do require a perfect finish, which can be hard to maintain and b) I dunno how significant a sealant's "months-long durability" is anyhow...the last coat of Collinte went on the Blazer in September and only now do a few areas seem like they could use redoing. When waxes last that long by themselves I just don't see the need for an underlying sealant.



I find it interesting that I've come to the above conclusions, as I'd been pretty enamored of KSG and UPP. I still use them on two vehicles but it's the old-school approaches I've used since forever (Collinite and #16) that are really making an impression on me these days, and that's on year-round daily drivers.
 
I have found that using either a squeege or strong air to dry the car has helped an enourmous amount keeping the spider webs off the car.

I too have harsh winters in NYC along with other crap conditions and my 28,000 mile WRX is looking very good with min amount of work or exspense.

Don't towel dry.
 
thank you accumulator ive read up on collinite wax after you have told me about it. and this seems like the product ive been looking for! can it be layerd to offer even more protection and depth? aswell, do you know of a good dealer for this stuff that can ship to canada?



BBasso i thin im gonna by a leaf blower and a water blade and use those to dry my car considering every time ive touched it with a towel ive put in swirls



wonder what my neighbors are gonna think. lol
 
My neighbors think I'm nuts already so my leaf blower is just part of the norm :P

I prefer the leaf blower over my squeege. it gets more water off the car, just takes more time.



I have the sears 6.5hp 265 blowing mph vacuum/blower, nice to have the extra power.
 
lol my neighbors think im odd aswell. how do you guys think collinite compares to meguires gold class wax. i used that last summer and got lots of compliments. i think the collinite would be more durable but would the gold class shine be uncomparable to collinite? or am i simply wrong and one rules the other
 
Remember the swirls in your paint. Sadly, as George (Accumulator) pointed out, came 99% from washing and not LSP failure. Things like water spot, etching and oxidation are cause by the LSP failure.



The primary reason, aside from my appearance desires, I use sealants (Zaino) is because of it's self-cleaning ability and durability. There is no way a Daily driver can be kept looking like a garage queen unless ones manipulate the finish constantly. Each session, no matter how careful you are will induce some damage. The cumulative effect is what your vehicle looked like prior to being detailed. A self-cleaning product will portray a clean looking vehicle that really isn't when viewed up-close. My desire is a slightly dirty daily driver instead of a sparkling clean swirled vehicle. Another aspect of self-cleaning LSP is that it does not allow a great amount of abrasives components to latch on and usually removal of the majority of this filth will occur during the pre-rinse prior to washing.



IMHO pre-rinsing is the most important step in alleviating self-induced surface marring.

After rinsing well, wash with extreme caution with a good lubricating car shampoo.



Apply the LSP of your choosing but choose one the will protect beyond just UV, etching, etc. Choose one that still emits brilliance even when slightly dirty.



Water blade :nono: IMHO. Get some soft WW MF's and/or soft terry cotton (100%) towels.
 
lol im a little confused? the more you touch the paint the greater chance of swirrling. so i figure if i prewash my car at a touchless wash beside my house then i wash it by hand with a sheep skin mit and gold class car soap then dry it after taht with a leaf blower i should be golden right?



is there any other tough products you would recommend instead of collinite?
 
mtbr64 said:
lol im a little confused? the more you touch the paint the greater chance of swirrling. so i figure if i prewash my car at a touchless wash beside my house then i wash it by hand with a sheep skin mit and gold class car soap then dry it after taht with a leaf blower i should be golden right?



is there any other tough products you would recommend instead of collinite?
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Don't prewash away from home. Just pre-rinse with your hose to remove a great deal of the filth, especially the larger dirt. Leaf blower is optional but soft towel are essential for drying. The majority of water will evacuate a protected surface after washing by just final rinsing with the head of the hose off.



There are no products that will protect against a poor washing technique. There many products that will give longevity in terms of protection.



I have never used Collinite but I do trust George's (Accumulator) judgment, detailing experiences and recommendation of a product. If he states it fit your requirements, it will.



I use Zaino and from the countless products I have tested it works the best for "my" daily drivers and my seldom driven garaged Z06.



Basically washing a vehicle is serious business that many over-look and does more harm than good when done too often in a rush.
 
mtbr64- Yeah, the Collinite can be layered. Sorry, I dunno who ships to Canada.



The Collinite paste wax (476S) won't look quite as "bright" as the Gold Class but it'll last infinitely longer. The Collinite liquid wax (845) will look more like the Gold Class IMO and will also last longer. FWIW and just IMHO, this is 95% goofy hair-splitting and if the vehicle doesn't look good it won't be because of the choice of wax (but rather a matter of imperfect prep). I use the 476S and I'm pretty particular about how my vehicles look to say the least ;)



The theory that the more touching the greater *potential for* marring is valid, but there are a lot of factors/variables at play here and IMO the most significant factor is *how* you touch. I'd rather touch very gently four/five times as opposed to less gently once or twice. Note the basic issue: the marring comes from abrasive stuff being pressed against the paint and then moved under (sufficient to mar) pressure. Don't move the stuff under sufficient pressure and you won't have problems; IMO this is most easily accomplished via gentle methods...which will be *so* gentle that one pass won't get all the dirt off. If I don't get something off with very gently washing I remove it with the Sonus green clay (very carefully).



The touchless-first idea isn't bad but the strong detergents they use would quickly compromise your LSP and it'd be nearly $10 extra every time you wash (going by the prices in my area). For the cost of a few runs through the touchless you could get a foamgun.



Gold Class isn't my favorite (due to its IMO marginal lubricity) but it's an OK OTC product and it'd probably be OK if used with the foamgun. Yeah yeah, I'm a broken record regarding the foamgun :o but it's the best/easiest way I've found to a) keep the dirt encapsulated/suspended in wash solution and b) to flush it off the surface without applying pressure. If the dirt is trapped between your mitt and the paint, with no flow of suds between the two, it's awfully hard to avoid pressing the dirt against the paint with the mitt (filling the mitt with wash solution and whisking it across the paint while the solution seeps out is the closest alternative I've found).



OK, don't worry, I won't beat my foamgun drum on this thread any more ;)



The leaf blower won't get *all* the water off (I use one with an AirWand). It gets a lot off, especially if your wax is healthy and slick, but you'll still do a lot of toweling.
 
thnx again accumulator. ill look into the foam gun. what do u recommend for inbetween washes to get rid of the film of dust that covers the paint and is very noticable on a black car? quick detail? dust+quickdetail+rubbing and wiping= swirls? or am i just better off rinsing and drying?
 
mtbr64 said:
what do u recommend for inbetween washes to get rid of the film of dust that covers the paint and is very noticable on a black car? quick detail? dust+quickdetail+rubbing and wiping= swirls? or am i just better off rinsing and drying?
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Noting that I'm pretty fanatical about not marring my paint, I wouldn't touch it at *all* except to do a full, no-holds-barred wash. I'd worry that trying to QD it or even take any shortcuts at all will lead to marring. I can't even use the CA car dusters without sometimes marring paint, so I quit using those as well.



I know what you mean about how a single use renders black less than spotless...that's a big part of why I quit buying black vehicles ;)
 
would it be possible to layer on a coat of p21s on top of collinite wax to give if it a better shine or am i just going over board
 
I am personally going to give up on polishing out swirls of my black car, really I think im just going to glaze over them infinitely.



I decided to do my hood the way I want to do my whole car, I spent 3.5 hours or so on just my hood... Yes I am crazy...



I have been QDing it with mf only (using crystal mist qd) and did one wash since with a mf wash mitt and now i have swirls again.
 
Yea I guess before mercedes came out with ceramiclear their clears marred too easily... Mine definitely does... MF is marring it and ALL with proper lubrication.
 
Thanks guys for above posts. Very helpful for myself too. (always sucking in the knowledge)



My best advice is



Don't use low or high pressure water to rinse before washing

Go straight to the foam gun, do it twice if necessary



Water is not a good enough lubricant against a dirty or filthy car.

Even though the water is on there, some dirt may still marr it as it's rolled across the panels by the water. The amount builds up per wash



It iss worse for people who do first rinse with a pressure nozzle on the hose and use full pressure straight at the paint

What do you think the dirt and crud is doing then??



Blot wash with your mitts, don't do any wiping unless it's absolutely gentle and very slow

Add a six inch thin line of shampoo to your mitt before touching the paint each time or use the foam gun as you blot or slowly glide the mitt



Use a sealant boosting quick detailer such as einszett raindance once the car is rinsed. Spray it on the body, leave for one to two minutes and do the sheeting rinse

Blot dry and use more than two waffle towels regardless of how clean they may look



Only wash the car when you are motivated enough and have enough time to do your best wash

Doing a quickie just for now wash is not a good idea.



The less washes you do the better

Once the car becomes coated in a layer of dust that hides the true gloss of the paint, don't QD and wipe.



As for sealants and wax



Fireglaze, double strength, Driven to perfection premium polymer polish/sealant (review coming), collinite 915 or 476 S. prime acrylic and or carnuaba by hand or machine then Acrylic jett x 2 and collinite.



That will give you a year of protection in most weather, at least a season or two in your US weather and totally water spot proof and just about anything will come off with warm to hot shampoo



I know with this post, some may find me extreme or mad but I just care and what I've stated in this post comes from experience and works.



have been water spot proof for eight months and it will never happen again.
 
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