Japanese Paint Sealant Advice

As I told Bence a while ago, I had half the hood of my car coated with a Japanese "glass" product called Quartz - a friend of mine works for a company that does both body work and coating, so when he painted my door, I asked him to apply a bit of the coating see what it was like.



I agree with the "plasticky" look; also, it had zero slickness, and in fact was kind of tacky to the touch. After several days it rained, and I was surprised that it neither sheeted water (which I was told it would), nor beaded it.



Now several weeks later, I can't tell if it's still there, because I can't see it (the rest of the hood is bare for test purposes), or feel it, and it doesn't move water.



You folks who are using similar products, how do you tell the durability?
 
If you can't measure thickness and it neither beads water nor sheets it, I doubt there is any real way to tell if it's still there. Unless that section of the car still looks pristine and mar free after a while of neglect.



But that beading is similar to what Collinite wax does and it is among the most durable waxes on the market.
 
percynjpn said:
I wasn't being condescending, just requesting you base your opinions on direct experience.



I think this is condescending, though:



Perhaps if you choose to reply you could use paragraphs?
Click to expand...



You were and I did.



Nothing condescending about paragraphs. They are there for a good reason.



@Now several weeks later, I can't tell if it's still there, because I can't see it (the rest of the hood is bare for test purposes), or feel it, and it doesn't move water.

@



Chances are it wasnt applied properly or wasn't left to cure for long enough. If your friend applioed it with a spray gun, and the thickness is good, he should of lightly polished and buffed up a shine.
 
percynjpn said:
You folks who are using similar products, how do you tell the durability?
Click to expand...



1. Look - the car looks just the same after 12+ months after application

2. Wather sheeting/beading like crazy, this tells me that the coating still existing

3. The paint is easy to maintain



I have never used "quartz" so I can´t say anything about it´s durability. Liquid glass is IMO not in the same league as the others, so it´s like apples and oranges.
 
So were approching corundum now? Maybe the molecules are that hard heck anyone can claim that sprinkling diamond dust in your car wax puts a coating of mohs hardness 10 but it's not all that useful unless it's truly a crystalized layer of material bonded to the paint and again I have to refer to my previous statement of extreme conditions to apply it.



And from other users of Liquid Glass I know from Connecticut it actually holds up quite well even through harsh winters. As far as protection if you prep your paint right it's durable enough, but I'm not particularly easy on my finishes. I'll go through automatic car washes with the rotary scrubbers, which I know cause swirls and marring but since I quit using long term sealants doesn't matter since I'll just use a cleaner wax followed by collinite and it'll look good again and be protected for about 2 months. I don't think it's lots of work. Especially considering two quick waxings every now and then is easier than dedicating a day to wash, dry, clay, polish, and seal. And be protected for 5 maybe 6 months.
 
dazzerjp said:
You were and I did.



Nothing condescending about paragraphs. They are there for a good reason.

.
Click to expand...



Wow, thanks for explaining that to me; now the haze has lifted and it all makes sense:bow!



(I was being condescending this time:secret)
 
percynjpn said:
Wow, thanks for explaining that to me; now the haze has lifted and it all makes sense:bow!



(I was being condescending this time:secret)
Click to expand...



no, you were being sarcastic. Paragraphs greatly help in the scanning of text as well as clearing defining topics...



http://www.autopia.org/forum/detail...147-opti-seal-here-post900027.html#post900027



Back to the topic ...



Whilst, undoubtedly, there are charlatans in the business of glass coating services, there are also those to who's product do offer a good 1 -2 year year protection.



The point of these posts is never to insult or cross swords, but rather to decrypt the masses of true and untrue marketing information about these new products.



I make no claim to be the font of all knowledge regarding this, but with the help of other forum members, the hope is to understand what can and cannot be achieved with thses glass coatings. And to also understand the best application process and product longevity.
 
All I ask is for proof, I'm avoiding personal attacks but it seems anyone skeptical of these coatings automatically incurrs the wrath of the supporters of the product. That in itself is a sign that you should be skeptical. If someone out there really is offering such a fantabulous paint protection system is there any way I can get my hands on it? I can pay paypal. I just don't like that these coatings are being called "glass" so often when it's obvious that a glass coating is impossible. Nobody credible calls waxes anything other than waxes. Glass here is a misnomer and that is often the tactics of a snake oil salesman. Just remember extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. In this case if anyone can tell me what is so special about the coating, ingredients, process or something tangible. Or else I'm going to have to assume snake oil with a voodoo master shaking his stick over your car promising protection from the bad juju. I'll apply it myself following all proper procedures and leave it on my hood to see how it goes and will report back a completely unbiased review whether good or bad.



If it's as good as it is I'll be a convert much like how I discovered Collinite. And I've never seen anyone start flame wars over the protection it offers, it's real, tangible, and easily available. There's proof all over the internets. Which is why I'm skeptical because theses "glass" coatings are like unicorns, I've never seen any local paint shops, detailers, or show car collectors use these. The only ones I've seen offer these is car dealerships and we already know that's a scam. I live in Southern California it's, like the show car capital of the world.



I was weary of Collinite at first mostly because it is an inexpensive wax in just about the plainest bottles and tins ever. It never caught my eye, untill hearing nothing but universal praise for it. These "coatings" have a lot to live up to since Collinite is already so good for so cheap. The bottom line is is it worth as much money as you think or do you have to convince yourself it's that much better because of the money you paid. Kinda like Zymols ultra premium Vintage Glaze, a $2,184 wax. But at least there you've got a lifetime supply which is technically a better deal than $1000 for 1-2 years of protection. Hell if I detailed profesionally I'd get this wax just so I can claim to use the best, would be good for business right? They also make a $30,000 wax free refills and it comes in an awesome looking crystal pyramid, how cool is that?
 
qwertydude, I think these are pretty heavyweight contributions (especially with 16 posts as grand total), but I mean... cleaner wax and Collinite as weapons against a coating? Wow...



I'm using Collinite waxes too (885 & 845) so I know what they are capable of, but I still *think* that they are quite dissimilar.



BTW, what happened to dazzerjp's post?
 
Collinite 476 is by far the best lsp I have found via Autopia. All the others disapointed me and that includes Z2, FMJ, UPP, M-seal, opti-seal.



But Collinite 476 is not even close when it comes to the durability against these coatings. But Collinite is so much more cheaper then these coatings. IE the coating is not for everbody and special not for those who love to take care of their cars, like regular autopian does.
 
Don't count me out just because I'm new to a forum. 10,000 bad postings don't make a person knowledgeable. And if I were to open up a discussion as to the merits of these coatings whether that determination proves to be positive or negative I believe I'd have made a better contribution than 1000 flame posts that are on either side of the argument.



I recently joined a motorcycle forum too and got bashed for being a newbie a while ago but because I took a rational and scientific approach to things I've solved motorcycle shifting issues and even improved the city gas mileage of the bike from 70 to as high as 102 mpg. It's on rebel250.com Whereas on the forum before they were just following what the manual said I took the carburetor of the motorcycle apart tracked down the circuit that wasted gas and corrected it with no ill effects of the bike. Nowhere in any manual does it ever say that because the bike already gets good gas mileage, I just happened to improve on it. If anyone owns a rebel 250 I'd be glad to tell you what simple modifications are required.



Just remember that I am not taking any sides in this issue but simply asking for evidence of the superiority of the product. So can anyone here stateside get me a bottle of authentic Japanese whizbang glass coating?
 
Get in contact with Rob Earle of Gtechniq @ DW (username Loboil). He will give you some in-depth explanation - and you won't have to bother with translation, interpretation, etc.



BTW Google & Co are still our friends when we do our researches.
 
Guys, apologies for re-awakening this long thread.

Came across it and couldn't resist contributing my opinions and findings about these "coatings" that seem to hv sparked off the defence mechanism of many traditionalists.



Daily, my frequently used brands were and still are, Megs, Swissvax, Collinite, Zaino, Poorboys World, Soft99 and Matrix Micro Coatings. I hv noted the emergence of the new coatings and besides Japan, many of these new stuff are advertised in Hong Kong and Taiwan car magazines. Sounds like fake Rolexes to me....at first.



We are all certainly familiar with the classic brands above.

But we hv to acknowledge that the industry is advancing and lots of new stuff are emerging. 10 years ago, I don't think there was a "spray and walk away" sealant such as ZCS or Ultima. Today.....you hv them! IMO, for continuous improvement, we shd be curious, and explore new frontiers in detailing.

Collinite is certainly good, but there's bound to be other stuff that's "better".



I hv always kept an open and fair mind, and hv tested a few of these coatings (samples from supplier) for many months to see what the hell it was all about.



These are my personal takeouts:



INSUFFICIENT INFO.

Instructions are often in a foreign language, insufficient and vague.

Pls understand that detailing approaches and methods in Japan, HK and other Asian countries are not identical vs the USA. A car with swirls may not be OK to us, but could be fantastic to the Japs (example). Their attitude towards detailing and the judgement method could be different from us.



WRONG APPLICATION.

Due to insufficient/vague info, our application method could be wrong, which leads to misleading/inaccurate findings. Eg: Did the website specify curing period, type of cloth to buff off etc etc?

Sonax Coating, being a German product, with instructions in English, already gave loads of problems (scratches) to 1st time users. What more with Jap products?



DIFFERENT EXPECTATION.

In the western detailing arena, surface prep is a key contributing factor.

In Japan, this might not be important.

Hence, it illustrates that what they see as "nice" might be merely crap and unacceptable to us (just an example).



The most notable characteristics of these coatings are:

1. Retention of good looks.

With the traditional products, I hv always noticed that the initial good looks will start

to deteriorate and continue detriorating as you wash and wash, ...unless you do

frequent maintenance (eg QDs)

The "coated car", somehow, after each wash even with an el-cheapo spoo, always

continue to look good. This is the most GLARINGLY OBVIOUS thing to me.



2. Looks good even through dirt.

After a thunderstorm, and when it's still drizzling, the coated car..although covered

by a thin layer of dirty rain water, under cloudy dark skies, still looks good! My

customers hv noticed this also.



3. Less swirls and spiderwebbing.

I can;t explain this, but those coated cars somehow just continue looking good for a

longer time. As a traditionalist, I hv to admit I'm impressed and curious.



nevertheless, I will still not fully embrace these coatings due to lack of professional technical backup from the supplier, but I certainly have respect for these thangs. Most of them are definitely not snake oils, and warrants further probing in order for us to advance to the next higher stage in detailing.



Apologies for the long post, guys.
 
I use Bliss X and used to use Crystal Guard Pro, both of them are widely sold in Japan. I don't even bother looking at traditional waxes or polymer waxes anymore as I am hooked to glass coating. Durability, ease of use, and sparkling shine can be achieved very easily. For me, waxes are so yesterday.
 
Sir Clean said:
I use Bliss X and used to use Crystal Guard Pro, both of them are widely sold in Japan. I don't even bother looking at traditional waxes or polymer waxes anymore as I am hooked to glass coating. Durability, ease of use, and sparkling shine can be achieved very easily. For me, waxes are so yesterday.
Click to expand...



I would love to test Bliss X and some of Soft 99 coatings like Triz and Prism Shield. Maybee you could help me since many traders in Japan dont want to ship outside their "comfort zone", IE outside Japan.
 
Sir Clean said:
I use Bliss X and used to use Crystal Guard Pro, both of them are widely sold in Japan. I don't even bother looking at traditional waxes or polymer waxes anymore as I am hooked to glass coating. Durability, ease of use, and sparkling shine can be achieved very easily. For me, waxes are so yesterday.
Click to expand...



I'm a very staunch traditionalist when it comes to detailing as I believe there's NO other way besides REGULAR and consistent polishing and waxing/sealing to achieve a consistently good looking car. Over the last 5-6yrs, I've become convinced by these "coatings" and I believe they do hv their merits.



But there is one grudging area that holds me back from simply recommending coatings for all my customers:



1. Unconfirmed resistance against acid-rain etching, bird droppings, lime deposits dripping from ceilings etc. I agree 100% that coated vehicles look glossy and reflective for a long time. But I'm NOT100% convinced by their protection from the above stainings. Since coatings jobs are expensive, there must be some sort of marketing/sales story behind it, to convince the car owner.

2-3mths after coating the vehicle, that customer could return to you with loads of stains and leftover stain marks. You'll hv to remove it, and RE-COAT(!!!!!!). If u charge the customer, he/she cd be pissed off, because they now realise that even with this coating, the same **** problems still persist. You are TIED to that customer. If he/she keeps coming back to you with stains...you'll be busy rectifying those problems and fuming each time u see that same ol car coming in.



2. Swirls. Even if that "coating" can reduce fine scratches, you'll undoubtedly get swirls as time goes by.

In Japanese weather, it might not be noticeable, or most Japs might not even give a damn about swirls. Different culture and attitude.

After just 3mths or so, you cd be asked to remove the swirls, and you'll hv to re-coat. The customer might think ***!!!! Ya want me to pay the SAME price for another round of re-coating!!! Are ya nuts????? It's only 3 friggin' mths!!! I thought u said it can last 1 yr????



3. Smoothness.

In many countries and environments, even if you wash a DDriver (parked outside) once a week, the paint surface will feel rough very quickly. Claying wd be needed. We all love the feeling of a freshly clayed surface. To the Japs, claying might not be a compulsory element of detailing, and they might not value smoothness and extensive surface prep as critically as Americans.

Once you clay, your coating is screwed. Many coatings websites caution against claying.



So, depending on how a coated vehicle is maintained:



That coated vehicle might still look great 6mths or 1yr later....but it's full of swirls, etched stains and feels rough.

The Japs, Koreans and Taiwanese could be OK with it...but are you OK with it?

6mths to 1yr later, that coating is still "chemically-present" on the paint surface. Yeah sure.....but what VALUE/BENEFITS is the coating giving you at that time?



If you want a consistently smooth, nice looking car that looks lovingly cared for and consistently maintained, there's just ONE way.....regular claying, polishing, waxing, sealing and QD. The traditionalist approach. It's like asking an old-timer shoe shiner to spend 1hr shining your shoes. Nothing compares to those results.
 
Waxes tend to attract dusts and leave a waxy film on the windshield when it rains. Also, buffing waxes and polymer sealant off the paint surface will certainly introduce swirls.



When I was using waxes, polymer-based sealant, and Klasse sealant, I tend not to do detailing when I know it is going to rain tomorrow. But, with glass coating, I will just wash my car, spray glass coating fluid, rinse quickly with water again, and wipe off water regardless when it rains. With glass coating, rain water just rolls off the pain surface without leaving much of water spot. With waxed surface, there is always water spots after it rains.



In Japan, you cannot believe how some people treat their car so well. As a former long time resident of NY and NJ, I can tell from my own experience, I find the ratio of well maintained cars out of the total cars out in the road is higher in Japan than in the USA. There is nothing wrong with it, as usually people just treat cars as just a transportation in the USA (I am generalizing this).
 
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