Is clay as big a rip-off as it seems?

Porterhouse said:
I agree... clay does an awesome job for the price, but for some reason my clay gets so wet/soft it falls apart after about a car and a half. I use clay magic, is this normal? Am I using too much lube?
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I've had that happen on me a couple of times, and discovered that I could minimize the chance of "squishiness" occurring by making sure the bar was mostly dry before folding. All I do is dab the face of the bar that I'll be folding to the middle on a clean MF (or on a clean part of my shirt . . . anything to get excess liquid off); since then, I haven't had my CM bar get the squishies.



Another possible culprit is the lube you are using . . . if you're using a QD, you might try a different brand; if using carwash solution, try another wash, or a milder solution of the wash that you're currently using.



Good luck,

Tort
 
Porterhouse said:
I agree... clay does an awesome job for the price, but for some reason my clay gets so wet/soft it falls apart after about a car and a half. I use clay magic, is this normal? Am I using too much lube?
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This seems to be the major difference between "plastic" clay technology and "elastic" clay technology. The plastic clays break down and get mushy. Elastic clay products do not. The elastic base stays intact through many uses.



I would urge all clay users to shop and do a little math. Kits will always be the best value. If you're paying more than about $2.50 per ounce for a basic bar of clay, you might want to look at other vendors.



Please also be aware that there are many different grades and formulas of clay. Even though the technology may be the same, different vendors have different formulas. Elastic clays range from very soft to very firm. Also, the abrasive particles may range from 2-3 microns all the way up to 20 microns. Every vendor selects a formula based on their particular market. Don't assume if the color is the same that the product is the same. It's not!



Read the reviews and see what other people like and dislike. If a product is talked about a lot on Autopia, you can bet it has been run through the mill.



db
 
forrest said:
Snatchface - sorry to read you don't think our clay is a good value, or for all the other "crap" that comes in the box. For the average consumer, it's what's needed to do the job right.



If you want to try the clay from an art store, have at it. It's not the same product, but I'd suggest you see for yourself.



That "measley" bar is adequate to do 3-4 average sized cars, so on a cost per use basis, I think it's fair.



Clay is a fast, efficient way for the consumer to remove embedded contaminants from paint surface without removing paint. I have yet to find a another product which does it faster, easier, or safer.
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Ok I apologize for having inflamed people here. Not my intention. i was simply not aware that there was "technology" involved in making and packaging clay. My bad. Sold individually I agree that it is a good value for what it can do for your car. And I thikn that the clay in the Mother's kit was terrific. However, I still think the Mother's Kit is a waste. Let's face it, only the well-read, detailing enthusiast is even going to consider using clay. Someone walking in off the street with no detailing knowledge is not likely to even look at he package, let alone have the balls or enthusiasm to wipe their car with clay. And those people who are in the know already have a good QD and wax and they just want the stinkin clay.



Maybe I'll use the Mother's QD if I run out of my other stuff, maybe...but I'll never use that wax.
 
Well, keep in mind that Mothers actually is trying to target Joe Average with their clay kit. If people aren't claying their car, they darn well should be. ;) It makes the paint feel so luxuriously smooth, I think if you could only buy one item and be impressed, it would be this kit. Wash the car, clay it, wax it, et voila - instant paint that feels great and is protected. I really really wish I knew about a kit like this about 10 years ago when I was trying in vain to remove fallout/contamination off a hood with TW Polishing Compound. :o



It's true that you can only "push" a product on people so much and that they might not bite anyway, but claying isn't a hard thing to do, and I think for the average consumer who wants to make the leap to the clay process, the kit fits this niche better than it fits our needs.





The only thing I'd like to suggest to Mothers (Forrest? :)) is that they make some mention or recommendation of both their Ultimate Wax System and Clay Kit in each of these respective products. Prior to being "Autopia-ized" I spent almost 1/2 an hour in the Auto aisle reading the backs of both of these products trying to figure out which to buy. They both sounded like they'd revive the paint, but seemed mutually exclusive because I thought you had to use the cleaner wax with the clay kit... I finally figured out I needed both, but it took a while. I think Mothers should recommend the Clay Kit with their Ultimate Wax System, and suggest the Ultimate Wax System on their clay kit if people want even better results. A small, but helpful sentence or two IMO. What do you think? :)
 
Forrest dont gt so defensive im sure he just meant that he hoped clay was esier to purchase by itself. Mothers should work on something to get this out to consumers. I myself have about forty bottles of that showtime shine and no clay. Its actually pretty funny.
 
Mr2SpyderMan said:
Forrest dont gt so defensive im sure he just meant that he hoped clay was esier to purchase by itself. Mothers should work on something to get this out to consumers. I myself have about forty bottles of that showtime shine and no clay. Its actually pretty funny.
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I could help you unload some of that showtime;)
 
Mr2 - I wasn't trying to be defensive (although it may have come out that way).



There have been innumerable posts about the sticky tack stuff on this site and others. Folks have tried it, and it doesn't work.



But, when I see words like "rip-off", "crap", and "measley" used to describe one of my products, it does upset me.



As I explained, we developed our Clay Bar KIT to be an all-inclusive KIT for the average consumer. Clay is on the upside of a bell curve in useage (meaning more consumers are becoming knowledgable about it, and are willing to try it), and it is becoming more mainstream.



A kit is necessary (for the average consumer) so he//she has the tools to do the job right. The clay bar size is appropriate for the average consumer - 3 or 4 uses worth.



We won't sell clay at retail by itself since the retailers are afraid of damage from improper use, and of theft. That's why it's in a big box.



We do sell clay by itself on the professional side, as 3 bars in a container.



I hope this explains our position, and my feelings, a little better.



BTW, use the showtime - it's a pretty good product.
 
Amen to all that, forrest! :up And thanks for the additional info, especially:

We won't sell clay at retail by itself since the retailers are afraid of damage from improper use, and of theft. That's why it's in a big box.
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Makes perfect sense, now that you mention it.
 
Hey there forrest,



In regards to selling the 3 bars in the professional line...

About how much would 3 bars of clay cost?

Might consider purchasing some from you if I can...?
 
forrest said:
We won't sell clay at retail by itself since the retailers are afraid of damage from improper use, and of theft. That's why it's in a big box.
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But, even that doesn't stop theft. When I went to Canadian Tire to buy it, most of the boxes had been opened. The lady at the cash knew to check my box to make sure that there was a claybar in it.



I learned about claying here at Autopia. I bought the Mother's kit and appreciated the QD. I loved the results.
 
Lynn said:
Amen to all that, forrest! :up And thanks for the additional info, especially:

We won't sell clay at retail by itself since the retailers are afraid of damage from improper use, and of theft. That's why it's in a big box.
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Makes perfect sense, now that you mention it.
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That makes sense??? Wha..huh? Why not sell the clay individually and put it in a big box if you're that worried about theft? Rather than packaging it with a bunch of other stuff people may not need, and forcing them to buy more of your product in order to ratchet up the retail price? I mean let's face it, the kit is a money making scheme. As soon as other companies start selling clay individually at retail stores and people can buy it without getting a "kit," nobody is going to buy the kits anymore and Mother's will have to start selling it individually as well. Also, how is packaging the clay with QD and liquid wax going to prevent damage from improper use either? None of that makes any sense at all. There's not even instructions in the kit on how to use it properly if that is what you are really concerned about. So that argument doesn't hold either.



Here, I'll solve your problem and you won't even have to pay me a consultant's fee. Sell the clay individually in a big box (so it won't get "stolen") and then include some well written and diagrammed instructions to help the consumer avoid damaging their car. And then on the back of the box you can recommend your QD and wax for those people who may not have it already. Now we've solved the theft and damage issues.



And again, I'm not saying that the Mother's kit is bad. I was actually very impressed with the clay included, and I would probably buy it again if it is offered individually. I have actually recommended it to non-enthusiast friends at work. But by not giving the consumer that option, Mother's has made it clear that they are going to milk us until another comapny provides it for us.
 
The theft argument sounds kind of awkward. Sure a small package might seem easy to steal. Why not just pack more clay per package (like 3 or 4 bars worth). There, you have a bigger package.



When I went to look for the Mother's kit, I found a few boxes that were open, and one had the clay missing. If people want to steal something, they're gonna steal it.



And honestly, who uses the cleaner wax? I know you are trying to target average Joes, but believe me the most autopian thing they do is wash their car and maybe vacuum it.
 
Snatchface - sorry, but I have to disagree. There are instruction in the box (let me know if you'd like me to send a .pdf of them to you).



Lubricant is necessary to clay (water won't work, and believe me, lots of folks try to use it), which is why it's included in the kit, and since clay removes any wax or polish on the paint surface, we happen to believe the wax offers value to the average consumer.



Other companies have tried selling clay by itself at the retail level, and it never did sell - what wasn't stolen was used improperly, which is why we put the kit together.



I spend my time calling on major retailers, and I've presented the idea to them of clay by itself, and they have repeatedly stated they want a kit instead. So, that's what we provide.



I'm sorry you don't agree with our decision to not provide just clay, but (and keep in mind, we're talking the average consumer here, not a knowledgable enthusiast like yourself) at the retail level, selling a piece of clay by itself will generate more dissatisfied customers and claims for damage than it will satisfied customers.
 
Oh, well I suppose that's fair. If the resellers will only buy kits then I suppose there's nothing to be done about that. In that regard it makes sense. Perhaps my assumptions were a bit ill informed and I modestly retract my prior statements.



However, if it were up to me I would substitute the wax for some pre-wax cleaner in the kit. That is something the average Joe doesn't have and would need after claying to remove the residue. I actually bought the Mother's pre-wax cleaner to go with the kit when I bought it. Good stuff.



BTW - there were no instructions with my kit, just what was printed on the side of the box, I wasn't making that up. No need to send the .pdf I know how to use it already.
 
For those who want just clay itself, why not just buy it from a retailer who supplies it that way? Yeah, its not gonna be Mothers clay but the product is available just the way you want it.



Frankly I'm glad Mothers sells it in a package. I've recommended this exact product to many people for the sole reason that it comes packaged with a lube and some wax. For novices (like my neighbor whom I just turned on to clay) the Mothers kit takes the guesswork out of the purchase.



For experienced users there are other solutions. Why not explore them instead of complaining about a packaging decision that you don't like nor do you have any control over?
 
For experienced users there are other solutions. Why not explore them instead of complaining about a packaging decision that you don't like nor do you have any control over?
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Agreed. I have already ordered the Pinnacle clay that comes three-to-a-tin from autog33k. It would just be a lot more convenient to walk into a Pepboys and buy it there. But if the retailers won't have it, i guess they won't have it. If I had the option of buying Mother's clay individually from the store I would do that though and not bother with ordering online.
 
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