IPA wipedown question

[Fallz]

what is the correct mixture ?

Correct procedure ?



What does this procedure do ?

 

[David Fermani]

I personally go with alcohol straight without any dilution. Look for 70% of higher if possible. Alcohol removes the polishing oils that could conceal hidden marring/defects. It shows (or hopes to show) the true finish. Some people do multiple wipe downs when checking over their test spots.



Many people use alcohol prior to prep when applying a paint coating. But, many times, when doing wipe downs, you are spreading and/or re-depositing the oils in other areas. When a sterile surface is needed, I'll really douse the surface with heavy amounts of alcohol, then wipe with a alcohol dampened towel and then give it a Dawn wash.

 

[Guitarist302008]

yeah I have seen 15% alcohol with distilled water and a drop or 2 of dish detergent, but I like 50/50 water/alcohol just to be safe, but as David said above... can't go wrong with just straight. Never know when it might pick up that LITTLE tiny bit of tar or that extra heavy spot of polish on the finish.

 

[Fallz]

Thanks guys

 

[togwt]

Wipe down Process



The wipe down process should be carried out both before to ensure a surface that is free of any debris and after to ensure that defects have been removed as opposed to masked by any lubrication oils or fillers left behind after the polishing process. The wipe-down process may need to be repeated to ensure a perfectly ‘clean’, debris free surface



Wiping the finish with a micro fibre cloth you may feel that the swirls have been removed, only to have them reappear after the surface has been washed. After polishing a section, mist and wipe to fully remove residues and reveal the true paint finish. Nothing worse than a client having paid for paint renovation to wash the paint surface and then have paint marring reappear



A recommended reagent isopropyl alcohol (IPA) dilution of 1:10 to 1:4 ratios (10-25%) in distilled water as a ‘safe’ surface wipedown cleaning solution. The reason for this wide range is due to the variations in clear coat paint systems



Reagent isopropyl alcohol (IPA) and or other solvents will permeate the paint, causing both temporary softening and some swelling. Depending on the solvent (strength) used and the amount of heat the amount of swelling varies. (See also “Paint (Solvent / Alcohol) Swelling�)







TOGWT® Autopia Detailing Wiki Article - “Wipe down (Scratch lie detector test) Processâ€� - http://www.autopia.org/forum/autopi...pedown-scratch-lie-detector-test-process.html

 

[pwaug]

From what I understand Barry Theal uses this mixture--the window cleaner providing lubrication.



16 oz of HD window cleaner already mixed at 50:1

8 oz of 70% alcohol

8 oz of water



However, if you're using HD Polish as a final step you don't need an IPA wipedown if you're applying POXY as an LSP. So if you're just applying another LSP as an example DG 105 do you really need an IPA wipedown??? I'm pretty sure Scottwax said he just uses an ONR wash after HD Polish before applying OptiCoat so would that be sufficient if just applying a sealant after using HD Polish????

 

[Dan]

I agree with David, straight out of the bottle. The stronger the better, especially with products that have tenacious oils. Not sure why people are doing it pre-lsp though. After polishing and pre-coating, yes, otherwise, why bother? Use an LSP with cleaners if you feel that worried about it. Or use a polish that isn't a train wreck.

 

[Thomas Dekany]

m2c - If you are using Scholls S3 compound, you will need 100% IPA TWICE before you see the real results. On the other hand, you could try HD POLISH - It will also reveal the the true finish from the previous step. For most products, I also use 70%/90% straight.

 

[Bill D]

I use both IPA and Akrya Klean (aka Prep Wash) from topoftheline.com.



Klean strips *everything*

 

[togwt]

Be cognizant that modern paint systems are porous, so be cautious as to what solvents you use. Reagent isopropyl alcohol (IPA) and or other solvents will permeate the paint, causing both temporary softening and some swelling. Depending on the solvent (strength) used and the amount of ambient heat, the amount of swelling varies. (See also “Paint (Solvent / Alcohol) Swelling”)





Using undiluted reagent isopropyl alcohol, even 70% IPA can soften the paint excessively, but as you increase the dilution, the softening drops exponentially, this softening effect is temporary. Using an abrasive polish on solvent softened or ‘swollen’ paint may cause the paint film to wrinkle or tear



For less dense (soft) clear coat, the lower rate of dilution (1:10) is recommended; conversely denser (dense) clear coats should use a higher dilution (1:25); as you increase the dilution rate of reagent isopropyl alcohol its paint softening effect drops exponentially. The reason for this wide range is due to the variations in clear coat paint systems

 

[pwaug]

Use an LSP with cleaners if you feel that worried about it. Or use a polish that isn't a train wreck.

So after using HD Polish POXY, DG105 or BFWD would be fine without an IPA wipedown???

 

[Dan]

Be cognizant that modern paint systems are porous, so be cautious as to what solvents you use. Reagent isopropyl alcohol (IPA) and or other solvents will permeate the paint, causing both temporary softening and some swelling. Depending on the solvent (strength) used and the amount of ambient heat, the amount of swelling varies. (See also “Paint (Solvent / Alcohol) Swelling”)





Using undiluted reagent isopropyl alcohol, even 70% IPA can soften the paint excessively, but as you increase the dilution, the softening drops exponentially, this softening effect is temporary. Using an abrasive polish on solvent softened or ‘swollen’ paint may cause the paint film to wrinkle or tear



For less dense (soft) clear coat, the lower rate of dilution (1:10) is recommended; conversely denser (dense) clear coats should use a higher dilution (1:25); as you increase the dilution rate of reagent isopropyl alcohol its paint softening effect drops exponentially. The reason for this wide range is due to the variations in clear coat paint systems

Is there any practical evidence to support this? Barring seeing something real world, I'm going to treat this similar to poisoning by water, it can happen....

 

[togwt]

Kevin Brown,Jason Rose collaborated on a post "A new perspective on paint defect return", which was re-posted on Autopia by TH0001. David Ghodoussi - Optimum Polymer Technologies and Anthony Orosco amongst others, has also posted some info on the subject.



If you 'only believe what you see with your own eyes"; try it, BTW its very effective on freshly applied paint







There is an explanation of what can happen here - http://www.autopia.org/forum/autopia-detailing-wiki/136812-paint-solvent-alcohol-swelling.html

 

[Jesstzn]

[quote name='David Fermani']I personally go with alcohol straight without any dilution. Look for 70% of higher if possible. Alcohol removes the polishing oils that could conceal hidden marring/defects. It shows (or hopes to show) the true finish. Some people do multiple wipe downs when checking over their test spots.



Many people use alcohol prior to prep when applying a paint coating. But, many times, when doing wipe downs, you are spreading and/or re-depositing the oils in other areas. When a sterile surface is needed, I'll really douse the surface with heavy amounts of alcohol, then wipe with a alcohol dampened towel and then give it a Dawn wash.

Don't you think the Dawn wash even rinsed well would leave more soap residue than if you just did the ipa wipe?

 

[shortspark]

What's wrong with using P21S Paintwork Cleanser and call it a day? I thought getting paint ready for an LSP is what this product was made for.

 

[pwaug]

There is also Detailer’s Coating Prep Polish and Duragloss Squeaky Clean--both are supposed to leave nothing behind as a prep for coating.

 

[Dan]

What's wrong with using P21S Paintwork Cleanser and call it a day? I thought getting paint ready for an LSP is what this product was made for.

IPA and Dawn are cheaper and more readily available.

 

[imported_PiPUK]

Kevin Brown,Jason Rose collaborated on a post "A new perspective on paint defect return", which was re-posted on Autopia by TH0001. David Ghodoussi - Optimum Polymer Technologies and Anthony Orosco amongst others, has also posted some info on the subject.



If you 'only believe what you see with your own eyes"; try it, BTW its very effective on freshly applied paint







There is an explanation of what can happen here - http://www.autopia.org/forum/autopia-detailing-wiki/136812-paint-solvent-alcohol-swelling.html

I am sorry to bang on about this but nothing you have posted helps. I googles the repost you referred to and there was no mention of IPA in the post itself, only in some follow up comments and none of those responses gave fact about the danger of IPA. Your paint swelling article has nothing and you have so far declined to respond with specific sources for the claims you post.



I am happy to read something factual but all that seems to be happening is one post refers to another which then refers back to the first and there is nothing solid as to the source of the info.

 

[RaskyR1]

m2c - If you are using Scholls S3 compound, you will need 100% IPA TWICE before you see the real results. On the other hand, you could try HD POLISH - It will also reveal the the true finish from the previous step. For most products, I also use 70%/90% straight.

Seems like a few of these newer polishes may have some very durable fillers...some where IPA and Eraser may not be enough to remove them...



I usually do a good wash with a strong mix of soap and then follow with a thurough IPA wipe down mixed at around 30%. I use around 6-8 towels for this per car (2-towel method) and each panel is done with a clean side of the towel.

 

[Accumulator]

What's wrong with using P21S Paintwork Cleanser and call it a day? I thought getting paint ready for an LSP is what this product was made for.

It's been ages since I used the stuff, but the P21S GEPC leaves lots of stuff behind, it's sorta a "paint cleaner plus glaze". I always preferred the Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion for such work, but it leaves a little something behind too. IMO such products are in a whole different category from "solvents that strip the paint clean" such as IPA.



But then I hardly ever use IPA for this either, preferring TOLS PrepWash.

Seems like a few of these newer polishes may have some very durable fillers...some where IPA and Eraser may not be enough to remove them...

Just stripping M205's TSO was beyond my IPA, prompting my switch to the PrepWash.