I'm a beginner Detailing in the sun, can I use Menzerna

TH0001 said:
Ryan told me about this months ago, I'm not sure if you are questioning the valditiy of his statement or asking why he did infact wait?



As for waiting so long to call it out, because I am calling it out right now, because I think its important to for us to help, and I am taking a beating on this thread. This pack mentality is probably why a lot of honest discussion's never happen on this board.
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So this beginner gets his thread BOMBED on instead of starting a thread months ago that spoke about the problem?
 
SpoiledMan said:
That thread is EDUCATIONAL!
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Agreed...I was lazy figured that SIP would work like other Menzerna polishes I've used in the past leaving a squeeky clean finish. I'm still using SIP as I feel it's a great polish but you must be very attentive to the alcohol wipedown when using it in order to insure you've got a defect free finish.



That's what I get for being lazy I suppose!



Andy
 
That's right!!! I am a big Menzerna user and I always reach for it mostly. It is my favorite polish brand bar none! I also do use 3M 3000 series with great results, but just everything else, it does have it's minor quirks as drying up every now and then and if it spatters, you have to clean it up fast.



Like I said before, it does not have chemical fillers added at all, it's just the nature of the lubes and how they work. It's not SIP's fault that certain black paints are just too finicky. I am sure in the future they will improve their minor flaws, but in all reality they still have the best performance and superb reflectivity cut bar none. It's almost like a sinature series cut finish... I personally think every detailer should have SIP and 106 and if they don't have it, then they are missing out on some great polishes ever made. My personal finds from my expert usage, OP does not even have a chance at all to even come close to Menzerna. But OP polishes and compounds do run the coolest and spin the best with no dust at all. It took 3M how many decades to come up with a true swirl remover system and they are the biggest! 3M 3000 series is actually a great system at removing flaws and leaving a perfect 100% swirl free surface when used correctly via rotary. They still do have some flaws though and I can pick them out easily, but all in all they do a perfect job and is very overlooked and have the best correction ability over any of the competition, but they are geared towards experienced rotary users. I still choose Menzerna over it, but when Menzerna acts up I just switch over. This is why I carry so many different stuff with me.



Now the pro's can understand what I am saying.... Take 5 black BMW's and I gaurantee that they all react different. There will be one of those that will act up.



There is a reason why Menzerna has regular IP and it took them a very long time to bring the SIP to the US....think about it. It's very logical...



Also, maybe only a very trained eye can discover what 95% others can not see. My customers think I am completly nuts with how extremly picky I am.



Thanks for your time

Ryan
 
SuperBee364 said:
Rydawg, that post had great info in it, thank you very much.



It's very reassuring to hear that even the pros have that odd problem getting 3.02 to work correctly. :)
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Your welcome! like you know, I take my correction polishes serious the most. Most care about LSP's, but I care 99% about the correction polishing and is the most crucial point to an absolute finish. I have had a few pros from watch me and learn from me and were amazed at what they learned and how much I can bump up a finish safely.:secret





Look at detailingworld.co.uk and read all the comments from the true pros. I think everyone will be amazed.



Also, manufactures can make claims as much as they want, but they do NOT have the end user everyday reality product usage. If a person calls to complain, then the company will say they are using it wrong... when in reality it's not the manufactures fault, it's actually the paint manufactures mixing flaw. We all should know this by now.
 
wow, is this a record for a newbie? post a question on detailing outdoors and have 6 pages of responses?



:) Can't we just all get along?
 
rydawg said:
I personally think your actions and comments toward Todd are very bitter and harsh. I read this whole thread and I have no idea where you think he is shilling.



I always talk to different companies on developing compounds and polishes and try to find out what is coming out and if they need a tester...does that make me a shill...NO! He is like me, he wants to know what is in what and what makes it work and why sometimes it does not work. A great detailer is a person who ask companies questions reguarding what is in the stuff and actually what makes it work. Product knowledge is the best way to know how stuff works.



It seems like you have this thing against Zaino and it's users from the comments you made above. Some people are just very passionate about their work and demand top shelf products.



I talk to Todd from time to time and he is very knowledgable and is very passionate for his work and the products he uses. I know he spends a fortune on everything he gets. He also does a ton of exotics and is very well respected by his clients and makes a fortune. :woot:



He is such a nice guy he even offered to pay for my plane ticket to have me come down for a week to do 12 Ferraris and lambos for a big event.



I just think jumping down his throat and making wrong bold statements like that were uncalled for. I am just baffled by your statements.



I remember I was one of the first people to try SIP and loved it and then PM'd all the top pro's about this. I felt like I was the spoke's person for Menzerna. Did that make me a shill? NOPE! I was just giving great product advice.
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<shrug>



As for todd, why do i think he was shilling? well he made a rather ambiguous claim about a product known not to have fillers. Then said he knows someones 2nd cousins dogs uncle that is making their own SRC polish. Now that he has gotten to the meat of the issue, (2-4 posts down from your quote) I can honestly add a bit more.



I have had sip "gum up" on 4 cars out of 2 cases of sip this last summer. 3 cosmo black e-36 m3's and a black toyota solara. It did not do so well on a berlina black s200o, but i swapped out to ip after on panel. The gummy stage made sip very very difficult to remove. After wipe downs it was plainly noticable that there was some sort of 1.2-1cm marring that had not been dealt with. I was able to deal with the remaining marring using 106 or 85rd as my step down. Other than the paints being black, what was the common theme on those cars. The temp. all were 75+ days here in seattle. I work outside under a canopy. After the 3rd cosmo, we took a temp reading on the paint. it was over 100. I have done several cosmo's since on 60 degree days with no issue.



My hypothesis is that when the paint starts out that hot, sip begins to have it lubricants fail. Another forum mentioned to lighten up on pressure for a pass after sip gums. Sip will then return to normal working characteristics and you can finish it out. I gave it a shot, alcohol wiped with no adverse effects.



Regardless i don't 1 step sip, it is always followed by 106 or 85rd. I simply have not come across the re-appearance issue that todd and yourself swear is there. 2/3rds of my jobs are on 3 month schedules.



I too do a lot of talking questioning. I don't take what ever is said as gospel, Hence why i think this is more of a heat issue than a failure of the product issue. It also could be a combo of things.



As for zaino, i don't use it, never had the pleasure or the reason to buy it. That being said blaming a polish for a sealants failure to bond is silly. it's like blaming tire manufactures for bad roads.



I am glad todd does well, so am I. <shrug> Why are you baffled, it honestly read like he was suckering people in to a new wonder product while claiming the failure of a well known polish.



Ryan your work is outstanding that is not with out doubt. You knowledge is very helpfull, my point is you are likely over thinking this by half. To me this seems a simple heat and cold issue. It has all the characteristics of heat and cold problems that detergents have. every product has a working temp range.
 
Cleaning Fool said:
rydawg, the pic on your avatar is killer. About as wet and glossy as I have seen.
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Thanks!



I think I had removed the water spots with 3m 3000 series xcut compound and then used SIP and 106 all done with rotary. That pic has no lsp and was bare... That was after a wash and alcohol wipedown.
 
Grouse said:
<shrug>



As for todd, why do i think he was shilling? well he made a rather ambiguous claim about a product known not to have fillers. Then said he knows someones 2nd cousins dogs uncle that is making their own SRC polish. Now that he has gotten to the meat of the issue, (2-4 posts down from your quote) I can honestly add a bit more.



I have had sip "gum up" on 4 cars out of 2 cases of sip this last summer. 3 cosmo black e-36 m3's and a black toyota solara. It did not do so well on a berlina black s200o, but i swapped out to ip after on panel. The gummy stage made sip very very difficult to remove. After wipe downs it was plainly noticable that there was some sort of 1.2-1cm marring that had not been dealt with. I was able to deal with the remaining marring using 106 or 85rd as my step down. Other than the paints being black, what was the common theme on those cars. The temp. all were 75+ days here in seattle. I work outside under a canopy. After the 3rd cosmo, we took a temp reading on the paint. it was over 100. I have done several cosmo's since on 60 degree days with no issue.



My hypothesis is that when the paint starts out that hot, sip begins to have it lubricants fail. Another forum mentioned to lighten up on pressure for a pass after sip gums. Sip will then return to normal working characteristics and you can finish it out. I gave it a shot, alcohol wiped with no adverse effects.



Regardless i don't 1 step sip, it is always followed by 106 or 85rd. I simply have not come across the re-appearance issue that todd and yourself swear is there. 2/3rds of my jobs are on 3 month schedules.



I too do a lot of talking questioning. I don't take what ever is said as gospel, Hence why i think this is more of a heat issue than a failure of the product issue. It also could be a combo of things.



As for zaino, i don't use it, never had the pleasure or the reason to buy it. That being said blaming a polish for a sealants failure to bond is silly. it's like blaming tire manufactures for bad roads.



I am glad todd does well, so am I. <shrug> Why are you baffled, it honestly read like he was suckering people in to a new wonder product while claiming the failure of a well known polish.



Ryan your work is outstanding that is not with out doubt. You knowledge is very helpfull, my point is you are likely over thinking this by half. To me this seems a simple heat and cold issue. It has all the characteristics of heat and cold problems that detergents have. every product has a working temp range.
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What I am trying to say is that it will not remove everything, and you have to really make sure you do a alcohol wipedown. On beat up black cars, you have to use your judgement and maybe even use a stronger compound first just to make sure you round out the deeper scratches. SIP is one truely outstanding polish and is the best mild polish out there. SIP works great under heat for me. It also works the best on a orange lc beveled pad versus the flat one. The flat one just creates to much friction sometimes on hoods.
 
TH0001 said:
Yes your logic is wrong.
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Are you really arguing the efeciveness of the squeak test? If you want to test it for yourself, wash a part of your car with dawn or APC and observe the squeak for yourself, it means nothing is there. Then use a QD or spray sealant or whatever and try it again, no squeak.



Also I did not think up this test, I read it on autopia and I believe also on detailingworld and megs forums.



But I have used 106ff many times, and I am far from a menzerna fanboy because it is not the only finishing polish I use, just one of my favorites.



And to answer your question, yes I have indeed bserved the long term results, and no fillers were apparant to me. It's not really worth arguing though, so I will stop now. It's a good polish among other good ones and thats it.
 
Grouse said:
<shrug>



As for todd, why do i think he was shilling? well he made a rather ambiguous claim about a product known not to have fillers. Then said he knows someones 2nd cousins dogs uncle that is making their own SRC polish. Now that he has gotten to the meat of the issue, (2-4 posts down from your quote) I can honestly add a bit more.



I have had sip "gum up" on 4 cars out of 2 cases of sip this last summer. 3 cosmo black e-36 m3's and a black toyota solara. It did not do so well on a berlina black s200o, but i swapped out to ip after on panel. The gummy stage made sip very very difficult to remove. After wipe downs it was plainly noticable that there was some sort of 1.2-1cm marring that had not been dealt with. I was able to deal with the remaining marring using 106 or 85rd as my step down. Other than the paints being black, what was the common theme on those cars. The temp. all were 75+ days here in seattle. I work outside under a canopy. After the 3rd cosmo, we took a temp reading on the paint. it was over 100. I have done several cosmo's since on 60 degree days with no issue.



My hypothesis is that when the paint starts out that hot, sip begins to have it lubricants fail. Another forum mentioned to lighten up on pressure for a pass after sip gums. Sip will then return to normal working characteristics and you can finish it out. I gave it a shot, alcohol wiped with no adverse effects.



Regardless i don't 1 step sip, it is always followed by 106 or 85rd. I simply have not come across the re-appearance issue that todd and yourself swear is there. 2/3rds of my jobs are on 3 month schedules.



I too do a lot of talking questioning. I don't take what ever is said as gospel, Hence why i think this is more of a heat issue than a failure of the product issue. It also could be a combo of things.



As for zaino, i don't use it, never had the pleasure or the reason to buy it. That being said blaming a polish for a sealants failure to bond is silly. it's like blaming tire manufactures for bad roads.



I am glad todd does well, so am I. <shrug> Why are you baffled, it honestly read like he was suckering people in to a new wonder product while claiming the failure of a well known polish.



Ryan your work is outstanding that is not with out doubt. You knowledge is very helpfull, my point is you are likely over thinking this by half. To me this seems a simple heat and cold issue. It has all the characteristics of heat and cold problems that detergents have. every product has a working temp range.
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I never said anything about people's anything. I know a person that I don't want to name, its that really hard to understand, or do you need to exaggerate to make a point?



As far as me making a bogus claim, if it doesn't fill, why have I recieved 4 emails and several PM's from people confirming my belief and agreeing with me. As the other thread mentioned, and several others on here confirm, SIP/106ff was filled. The question becomes why....



I can see why you may have thought that I was shilling, but you are wrong, obviously. Gathering evidence and facts, rather then spouting off your uninformed opinion, is probably the better idea. I have been guilty of this too.
 
Hey Guys....



Let all take a deep breathe ok?? Todd raised a few points and people are freaking over simple comments. If you don't like his observations try and test the product yourself and see if you have the same results as he did.



Lets try and keep it more civil shall we??? :argue
 
newbiebimmer said:
uhmm.. I'm going to costco tomorrow to see if they have a popup :)
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Got a Sam's Club card?



Their EZ-UP has been reduced to $149.XX from close to $200. Costco sells Caravan brand and they want $189 or $199 for it. Costco's items move quicker and are a lot more seasonal though so it might not even be in the store anymore.
 
Check your local sporting goods store too. I got a 12x12 E-Z Up recently for under $100. If you live in Southern California, they have 3 stores where they claim to offer great deals to walk-in customers.



I got the 12x12 mentioned here: EZ UP Instant Shelter Outlet.
 
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