If Jesus was a compound... Garry Dean - Tampa, FL - Premium Custom Detailing

TOGWT said:
I think Megs not importing this product to the USA has more to do with import health restrictions than "European aftermarket paint" differences, but I could be wrong



MSDS - http://www.meguiars.com/content/en/msds/M101.pdf (see also label on M101)CharlesH could you post a photo of the label THKS
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I kinda doubt that; especially considering it's made here in the USA at the Meguiar's facility in Tennessee. Here's the label though:



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thanks for sharing your thoughts and taking the time to make the video. btw - when using a microfiber towels please fold in quarters when using lol.... :D
 
TOGWT said:
OK, we'll try to distill down the discussions that have taken place on other forums after some folks managed to obtain this European only formula here in the USA.



[This is the first product that Meguiar's actually developed outside the US. It was still created by our chemists here in Irvine, CA, but we actually shipped our lead man for the project to Europe, along with a mini lab set up, so that he could quickly respond to testing and inputs and tweak the formula as needed. Pretty cool stuff, actually.



What is M101 designed for? Rotary buffing with a dedicated foam pad on European aftermarket (ie, body shop) paint.



Why "European" aftermarket paint? Because, unlike factory paint which is the same whether the car is sold in Europe, North America or Asia, aftermarket paints vary in different parts of the world. It's a high solids versus low solids situation with these different paints, and that can require different compound formulations to achieve maximum results. Oh, and for the record, factory paint is vastly different from a chemistry standpoint than the paint used in a body shop. If a body shop, whether in Europe or North America, were to shoot factory paint it would virtually never cure due to a body shops inability to bake it at sufficient heat and for sufficient time. It's just not economically feasible for a body shop to have that sort of equipment.



Why "dedicated foam pad"? While use of a wool pad is commonplace here in the US for sanding mark and swirl removal, in European body shops they almost never use wool. And rarely do they compound the entire vehicle - it's mostly spot repair following a repaint, and it's almost always with a foam pad. They also tend to run the rotary at fairly low rpm. So we've developed a dedicated foam pad to use with this compound, taking into account the cultural toward low speed rotary and anti wool bias.



Why did we send a chemist and mini lab to Europe? Lead time, really. Imagine if we sent product over there, had it tested, then had to tweak and send a new batch across the pond, repeat, repeat, repeat? It would have taken months. And we couldn't do the testing here because the aftermarket paint used in Europe is very different from that used here, due to environmental regulations.



So basically what we have here is a product developed for a very specific type of paint system and a pretty specific work flow. That a handful of guys have imported this back to the US (it is made domestically, just like all the rest of our products) and are finding success with it using either wool or microfiber pads is interesting, to say the least. At the moment we have no solid plans to introduce this product to the US market.] Michael Stoops, Meguiar's Inc.



€ 50 – 63 USD Per Litre
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I want to bring up one point here about something... nothing that critical, just something that caught my attention. So as far as i understand Each and every factory is different for production in paint. So attempting to {quote} shoot factory work is impossible without replicating the process.



THis is my understanding:

There can be numerous factory application possibilities for todays car finishes- such as electrodepostion baths, electrostatic spraying, dry powder, silver nitrate for mirrors, and so on. Todays car maker production lines are usually equipped with automatic spray rigs, or baths like ones here in america.



I dont know if the aftermarket process in europe is different but here, it is usually hvlp, paint booths with temperature control, and the typical refinish procedure= paint, reducer, catalyst(2k). and of the use of waterbased. Custom shops may take a step above the norm of a typical body shop refinish procedure.



I am simply confused how you worded body shops will "shoot factory paint"
 
hacadacalopolis said:
I want to bring up one point here about something... nothing that critical, just something that caught my attention. So as far as i understand Each and every factory is different for production in paint. So attempting to {quote} shoot factory work is impossible without replicating the process.



THis is my understanding:

There can be numerous factory application possibilities for todays car finishes- such as electrodepostion baths, electrostatic spraying, dry powder, silver nitrate for mirrors, and so on. Todays car maker production lines are usually equipped with automatic spray rigs, or baths like ones here in america.



I dont know if the aftermarket process in europe is different but here, it is usually hvlp, paint booths with temperature control, and the typical refinish procedure= paint, reducer, catalyst(2k). and of the use of waterbased. Custom shops may take a step above the norm of a typical body shop refinish procedure.



I am simply confused how you worded body shops will "shoot factory paint"
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I think you're missing two things:



1) That post is a quote of Michael Stoops from Meguiar's, it wasn't something Jon wrote.



2) What Mike is saying is that if refinishing facilities were able to replicate a factory finish (which is high-temperature thermocured paint) there would be little need to develop a wide variety of products that are specifically geared toward certain situations because the range of finishes found would be much less varied.



Since body shop safe compounds like M95, M105, M101, etc. are primarily benchmarked for use on refinish paint systems that are still "green," or only partially cured to the point that they can be cut and buffed, the chemistry and curing characteristics of the particular paint system and environment in which it is being worked with must be taken into consideration. That being the case I can sort of understand where Meguiar's is coming from with their position regarding the release of a highly aggressive compound like M101 here.



They have to develop and market for the least common denominator -- that is, they have to make sure their products produce good results in the hands of people in everyday refinishing facilities who often don't know a buffer from their left pinky toe. If M101 isn't effective on refinish materials here in the US that are green out of the booth and being buffed by Hank Hackjob, they face liability concerns when 'ol Hank constantly causes vehicles to visit the booth again for rework. That having been said, I think Meguiar's is also ignoring the segment of the market who specialize in paintwork correction and know how to safely and responsibly use a product of this type.



The key here isn't to dumb down the formula, or validate it for pimple-faced 15-year-olds slinging old-school Milwaukee rotaries with dirty wool pads at the local Ziebart. The key is to find an approach for distributing the product in such a way that it specifically targets the portion of the market who will be able to get good success with it as-is, while making clear what it is NOT intended to be used for (in other words, make the legal department happy that they're not over-exposing themselves to liability risk when selling the product).



It will take some time until enough people have used enough of this product on enough different finishes to really determine its true versatility and usefulness in the paint correction/reconditioning/detailing field, but I have a hunch that it will prove a very worthy addition to the arsenals of many and therefore it would be a reasonable ask for Meguiar's to simply offer to sell the product here directly. Even if it would remain primarily a niche product they have already put in the R&D work/dollars and are producing/exporting it to the other side of the planet, so I fail to see the business case for not allowing it into at least a portion of the domestic distribution stream.
 
Appreciate the input, and like i said, it was nothing in regards to compounding, just only about how refinishing and factorys as you just mentioned in 2). I didnt notice it wasnt his write up
 
C. Charles Hahn said:
I kinda doubt that; especially considering it's made here in the USA at the Meguiar's facility in Tennessee. Here's the label though:



IMG_2170.JPG
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Thank you...Mfg and use are not necessarily the same.



I just can't think of a valid reason for a US based company to decline selling their product to the worlds largest detailing market, or perhaps is an innovative marketing strategy ;)
 
Interesting thread/product. But I couldn't help but think:



C. Charles Hahn said:
My thought would be that this is not a product for the casual user, nor would it be a good choice for regular use on a personal vehicle...This is really a compound best suited to major paint correction work, which is not something that can be done more than a handful of times...you can get yourself into trouble really quickly.
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Garry Dean said:
I agree... And that's exactly why its in their professional line, mirror glaze.
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Hey, I never even thought of that! I've just used the Mirror Glaze line for so long that it went right past me...introduced to it my my mother and aunt, who sure weren't professionals!
 
Barry Theal said:
Yea this product would be Accumulator proof. lol
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Heh heh, don't bet on it :grinno:



Never underestimate my ability to mess something up :chuckle:



But seriously, yeah...I could see using this for certain (rare) jobs and being really happy with it, as I was with that UNO/MF combo you recommended, *SUPER* for the work we'd discussed on the Audis :xyxthumbs



I just read about stuf like this and think that the "more power!" thing has gotten to the point where everybody can do damage. It's sorta like how most everybody can now afford faster cars than they can handle.
 
Garry - You're videos are world class!! Keep up the great work.



I guess if M101 is Jesus, D300, M105 (and all the othes) would be his apostles. :pray:



And, if M101 is pimp juice, then D300, M105 (and all the others) would be hoe juice. :hat:



This kinda proves the filling properties of D300 doesn't it? :shocked
 
C. Charles Hahn said:
I kinda doubt that; especially considering it's made here in the USA at the Meguiar's facility in Tennessee.
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Wait? Tennessee? Do I smell a Road trip coming? Where do I need to go?
 
I'm guessing if Megs doesn't release 101 in the US for sale, we could just eventually order it from a UK-based detailing supplies site?
 
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