How do you wash your vehicle?
- Thread starter armoredsaint
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jordanrossbell
New member
2 bucket method
Accumulator
Well-known member
highbl00d said:
If I don't want to do a full wash I'll rinse it off as thorougly as possible with the CRSpotless and then dry it as best I can with the AirWand. Sure not perfect but it usually turns out sorta OK and I doubt if most people could tell the diff between that and a proper wash.
No way I'd QD it, I simply don't touch 'em between washes unless I get some awful bird-bomb and can't do a regular wash for some reason.
So my gauge for QDing is, uhm...don't unless the vehicle is already clean because sooner or later you'll mar it by QDing.
imported_Detailing Technology
New member
I'm getting convinced that a foam bath is a circle jerk.
My black car was dirty
I gave it a foam bath with 1Z Einszett Perls
I looked through the foam and still saw the dirt on the car
Rinsed with hose, nothing
Rinsed with power washer, saw dirt removed where the PW hit directly
Wipe with wash mitt, saw clean surface.....
Why did I foam?
My black car was dirty
I gave it a foam bath with 1Z Einszett Perls
I looked through the foam and still saw the dirt on the car
Rinsed with hose, nothing
Rinsed with power washer, saw dirt removed where the PW hit directly
Wipe with wash mitt, saw clean surface.....
Why did I foam?
Accumulator
Well-known member
jdoria- Eh...using a foamgun *that* way, I wouldn't expect much of any cleaning. There are all sorts of ways to use foamguns, and IMO that isn't one of the effective ways :grinno: I've done that as a presoak/prewash, but I then use it along with mechanical cleaning methods (BHBs, mitts), which *IMO* is where the foamgun really helps.
imported_series1
New member
Wasnt the main purpose of foam for extra lubricity? I know that one of its main uses was to pre soak some dirt and grime from the surface but I thought that the foam was there so when you rub whatever wash tool(sheepskin mitt, microfiber mitt, grout sponge, etc, etc,) against it the foam was just there for the protection of marring less because the wash tool can glide (and clean)easier against the paint. Again this is just my opinion but i'm sure there are some people that use foam guns strictly as a pre soak.
imported_Detailing Technology
New member
Accumulator said:
Foam gun and BHB in conjunction has been the best thus far.
Foam gun alone is a waste of soap in my driveway.
The mental-masturbators with the "5 minute foam soak then watch the dirt leap from the surface" are missing something in my eyes.
I've got 3 cars drenched in Zaino, Optimum, and Swissvax. No luck here.
I've just never seen it work that way.
I see:
Foam
Soak
Dirt still on car
Soap now dried on car on top of dirt
Re-rinse
Re-Foam
Wipe with BHB or wash mitt
Rinse
Dry
Ask self, "why did I foam"?
SuperBee364
New member
dsms said:
That's gotta be one of the best/safest "traditional" methods I've seen posted yet. I'd be willing to bet this method produces faaar less marring than the "two bucket" method.
Toss in a BHB right before the two bucket wash for even better swirl prevention.
SuperBee364
New member
Jakerooni said:
Man, those heated PW's are *sweet.* How hot do you get the water for car washing?
Accumulator
Well-known member
series1 said:
Yeah, that and constant flushing. At least the way *I* use it. Any presoak/etc. can add a bit of dwell-time, but I never found it to be all that big a help.
"Dislodge and flush."
Done correctly (well, *my* version of "correctly"), I find that the water in my rinse buckets ends up mighty clean, even after washing the very filthy YukonXL...hardly any dirt in 'em at all.
jdoria said:
Yeah, I agree 100% :xyxthumbs I then follow up with the foamgun/mitt combo because my BHB work is *so* gentle that it doesn't get everything off...I try to use it to get the "big stuff", which I figure is the most likely to cause marring.
It's harder to get the same degree of flushing with the mitts, and it's also harder to spray that cushion of foamgun output between the mitt and the paint, but it works OK, and filling the mitt with wash solution contributes a bit too.
I always suspect that my boosted water pressure makes a huge difference, but when I use the BHB/foamgun combo (foamgun output directed at the point where bristles contact paint) I can get some *really* awful [stuff] off the paint without any marring to speak of...no way I can do that with any other method I've ever tried.
Flawless Image
New member
if i let foam dwell on a car here in mississippi for 10 minutes, your going to have alot of dried soap on the car for about 9 1/2 of those minutes. I cant leave a surface dry, much less with soap on it, for more than a minute in 90+ degree heat down here.. I use the two bucket and pressure washer method. wheels and engine first, then roof/hood/trunk, then side with the most shade, then the sunny side.. all the while, keeping the entire car wet to prevent drying and spotting..
SuperBee364
New member
jdoria said:
jdoria said:
Don't give up on it yet, jdoria!
(For those of you that are tired of Supe's long-winded touch-free car washing spiele, I apologize...)
::::cracks knuckles:::: I feel a looong post coming on...
I've been in search of the perfect touch free wash for several years now. Why? Because I am convinced that (ONR washing notwithstanding) any time you touch the paint, you are marring it to some degree. You touch it, you're marring it. Yes, I know there's a lot of guys that will argue that point, but I'm gonna be stubborn on this point: you touch it, you mar it. Again, the only exception is ONR used correctly.
So, all this nasty stuff needs to come off of the paint, and we gotta do it without stripping the LSP, and without using any sort of wash media to get it off. OK, so what factors are involved in doing this magic act?
Normally, the process of cleaning involves using: Heat, chemicals, and kinetic energy. The two things we can concentrate on here are chemical and kinetic, although we have to be careful with both of them, because we don't want to strip the LSP (chemically), and we don't want to mar/swirl (kinetically).
So to start off, we need something on the paint that is both resistant to chemicals and (and this is the BIGGIE) *easily releases contaminants*. (Let's define "contaminants" as being anything on the car's paint that you don't want. Dirt/grime/bugs/tar all of it). The less kinetic energy required to get contaminants off, the better, since we are limited to the kinetic energy from the pressure washer. So using an LSP that easily gives up contaminants, the better. Luckily, there are a lot of LSP's that excel in this.
Next, we need a chemical cleaner that does *a lot* of chemical cleaning with out stripping the LSP. Now I'm not gonna give you a dollar figure in case my wife reads this, but I have run a *ton* of different soaps through my foam cannon, with only one concern in mind (I didn't even care if it stripped LSP at this point): how much chemical cleaning does this car soap do? I was very disappointed to discover that the *vast* majority of car soaps do very little in the way of chemical cleaning. IMO, most car soap makers focus more on the soap's lubricating and foaming properties than chemical cleaning. I am guessing (again, just MO) that the soap makers are relying on kinetic cleaning (using some sort of wash media... mitt, sponge, whatever) to do the brunt of contamination removal, hence their high lubrication/poor chemical cleaning properties. I also think they do this to make their soaps more LSP safe.
Most soaps appear to be nothing more than a foaming lubricant. Not of much use for a touchless wash where lubrication means nothing. There are very few detailing products that I swear by (although there are a lot I swear *at*), but Chemical Guy's Citrus Wash N Gloss is one of them. It does *far* more chemical-based cleaning than any other soap I've tried that still leaves your LSP unscathed.
So now we have a couple things covered: we know we need an LSP that easily spits off contaminants, and a soap that actually does some chemical cleaning without stripping off the LSP. We're almost to the point where we can actually talk about putting them to use.
But I gotta digress for a minute first... Remember that a surface of something can be scratched by anything that is harder than that surface. A car's clear coat is *very* soft. Just about *anything* is harder than it is. So *anything* that is on your paint has the potential to scratch it. So it's important to get in the mind set of "reducing the potential" for those particles to scratch the paint. We gotta think in terms of not letting them go for a ride along the surface of the car. Using a wash mitt (or other wash media) to smash a dirt particle against the paint, then running it along the surface of the paint (while still smashed under the media) is *clearly* not a safe way to remove the particle, regardless of the number of buckets you use. *Anytime* you trap a contaminant under a wash media, it's going to mar whatever it rides across. Again, ONR and it's voodoo notwithstanding. That stuff literally performs miracles, and is the *only* way I've seen of safely smashing particles under a wash mitt without marring. But even ONR has it's limits.
So how can we get these particles off? By making it come off using the least amount of mechanical (kinetic) energy. Break the bond the contaminant has with the surface of the car chemically to start (and hopefully that bond isn't very strong because you are using a good, easily cleaned LSP). Then, instead of using a wash mitt, we can try blasting it off using high pressure water. This is the safest way as far as "reducing the potential" of that particle to mar the paint. Another way we can do it that is *almost* as safe is by kicking the particle in the butt; using a Boar's Hair Brush to dislodge the particle from the clear coat, and then scooting it off the paint in front of the brush (instead of smashing it under a mitt) is *Much* safer and "reduces the potential" of that particle to mar the paint. As the particle rides the wave of liquid in front of the brush, it will hopefully be suspended above the paint's surface. If not, then at least it only has it's own weight to abrade the paint, instead of being forced against it by a wash mitt. Kinda like sweeping a floor.
Unfortunately, high pressure water and BHB's are limited in how strong of dirt/surface bonds they can break. A good BHB is *very* gentle and when used with an LSP that bonds well with dirt and a bad soap has very little cleaning ability. But pair that BHB with a good LSP and good soap, and you'll be able to effectively clean *almost* as well as a wash mitt.
So, we're getting closer to actually washing the car...
Here's what I do... it's all about "reducing the potential" of a contaminant to mar, and progresses in aggressiveness as necessary to get the damn stuff off the paint.
1. High pressure rinse. This gets the big stuff off of the paint, and also serves to "swell" carnauba based LSP's. Carnauba will swell when hit with water, and it makes it release contaminants easier. So it is a benefit to do the HP rinse prior to step 2.
2. Using a foam cannon and your pressure washer, lay down a good thick layer of CG's CW&G. This is the chemical part. Hopefully, your LSP only has a weak bond to the contaminants, and the CW&G will be able to break those bonds. Let it dwell for as long as you can, but don't let it dry. If it dries, the particles can rebond, sometimes even stronger than before.
3. High pressure rinse. Now that the bonds have been broken chemically, get the contaminants off using the safest method: water.
4. Use forced air to dry. Even the very best touchless wash is going to leave a particle or two (possibly three) on the paint's surface. Grabbing a towel and giving those particles a ride across your paint while drying is not a good idea. I won't *ever* touch the paint with a drying towel (or any drying media) following a touchless wash.
Using the products I do, I am able to get a vehicle as dirty as you have ever seen, and have it come out *COMPLETELY* clean by doing this touchless wash. 99% of the battle is the LSP and soap you chose. Oh, I can see those rebuttal posts coming in right now, but that's OK, I really do stick by that statement. Caveats: your LSP must be properly maintained, and you don't let the contaminants sit on the surface of the car for extended periods of time.
OK, so obviously there are times when a touchless just isn't going to get everything off the paint. So we need to step up the aggressiveness, at the cost of increasing the potential for marring. Most of the time, the cause of a car not coming clean when using a proper touchless wash is due to the LSP getting a bit long in the tooth, or it's completely gone. Or if you let the contaminants sit on the car too long. So if, after doing a touchless wash, the car isn't completely clean, I:
1. High Pressure Rinse. Again, you want to swell your carnauba.
2. Lay down a layer of foam.
4. Fill a five gallon bucket with water, and add your soap to the water after the bucket is full. This will gaurentee *no suds*. Remember, you want to flush the contaminants off of the paint. Suds tend to stay put. Liquid runs off the car, taking the contaminants with it.
5. Dunk your BHB in the bucket, and use sweeping single direction strokes on the car, starting from the roof. As soon as liquid stops running freely from the brush, dunk it back in the bucket. You want *tons* of liquid to flow the contaminants away from the brush, down your car, and to the ground.
Using this method, you have kicked the particles in the butt, and flushed them off of the paint. You can probably visualize the advantage of not having to fight suds.
6. HP rinse
7. Blow dry. Again, try to stay away from drying media.
At this point, you have removed the vast majority of stuff from your paint. If there are *still* contaminants, there's not going to be a lot. Certainly not enough to make an ONR wash risky. If the car still hasn't come completely clean, I'll do an ONR wash at this point. Why didn't I start out with ONR? ONR has it's limits, and it's all about "reducing the potential". IMO, doing the touchless, followed by the BHB, and last resort ONR "reduces the potential" far more than starting with a filthy vehicle and just ONR'ing it.
Really, the whole thing is just a mind set. If you think about getting the stuff off of your car in a way that reduces the potential of that particle to mar the paint, you'll be set. And you'll probably form a new/different opinion about QD'ing, California Dusters, and their ilk.
Did you *really* read all that??
Edit: Yeesh.. almost forgot the most important part... Accumulator was a major source of information and technique. If you haven't read his post on car washing, you are missing out on one of the crown jewel posts on Autopia. The "reducing the potential" concept came from an old post here on Autopia that I can no longer find, nor can I remember the author's name. Basically, this whole post is nothing more than a summary of a bunch of the smart guys on this forum that know their stuff. I just jammed it all into one post.
imported_series1
New member
I read it all supe. nice post! My favorite part is this "Anytime* you trap a contaminant under a wash media, it's going to mar whatever it rides across"
ONR solution in a Dirtguard bucket for most washes...microfiber mitt and waffle weave towel are used of course.
If the car is seriously dirty, then I'll use Meg's Gold Class (1/2 cup) mixed with 1 oz ONR in 4 gallons of water. Amazing Roll-off for the wheels and Stoner Tarminator for below the belt-line body panels are also used during the wash.
If the car is seriously dirty, then I'll use Meg's Gold Class (1/2 cup) mixed with 1 oz ONR in 4 gallons of water. Amazing Roll-off for the wheels and Stoner Tarminator for below the belt-line body panels are also used during the wash.
Accumulator
Well-known member
SuperBee364 said:
Why sure I read it, nice write up on one of my favorite subjects
Thanks for the good summary of how you wash. Sure makes me wish I could use a pressurewasher in my overcrowded shop...how *do* you keep from getting surrounding stuff wet?!?
I can't help but wonder how well the touchless part works on vehicles that don't have really fresh LSPs and/or have been allowed to stay very dirty for an extended period. Yeah, I know...but IRL I gotta admit my drivers live a pretty hard life and the contaminants can get pretty firmly bonded at times.
The only thing I'd suggest your tweaking is that when you find it necessary to use a BHB after the touchless, I'd incorporate a foamgun to better facilitate the flushing/lubrication. Without the foamgun the BHB isn't all that safe IME, no matter how often you dunk it (that "tons of liquid" gets relative).
Hm....so when I resort to the foamgun/mitt combo *you* reach for ONR :think: I dunno...I bet neither of us is gonna change our ways on this one any time soon
Thats Fresh
New member
i take my car to another detailer for regular washes :nervous:
j.k. if the car has seen alot of road in between washes, i use the foam gun, rinse, and then followed by the 2BM, rinse
if i hardly drive in between washes but still dirty enough to wash, i pre rinse, and then use ONR
j.k. if the car has seen alot of road in between washes, i use the foam gun, rinse, and then followed by the 2BM, rinse
if i hardly drive in between washes but still dirty enough to wash, i pre rinse, and then use ONR
SuperBee364
New member
Accumulator said:Why sure I read it, nice write up on one of my favorite subjects
Thanks for the good summary of how you wash. Sure makes me wish I could use a pressurewasher in my overcrowded shop...how *do* you keep from getting surrounding stuff wet?!?
I can't help but wonder how well the touchless part works on vehicles that don't have really fresh LSPs and/or have been allowed to stay very dirty for an extended period. Yeah, I know...but IRL I gotta admit my drivers live a pretty hard life and the contaminants can get pretty firmly bonded at times.
The only thing I'd suggest your tweaking is that when you find it necessary to use a BHB after the touchless, I'd incorporate a foamgun to better facilitate the flushing/lubrication. Without the foamgun the BHB isn't all that safe IME, no matter how often you dunk it (that "tons of liquid" gets relative).
Hm....so when I resort to the foamgun/mitt combo *you* reach for ONR :think: I dunno...I bet neither of us is gonna change our ways on this one any time soon
Actually, I completely agree. In order to "reduce the potential" ( man, I wish I could give proper credit for that statement), your dislodge and flush method is *much* safer than the BHB method I describe. Unfortunately, I still haven't bought a Gillmour foam gun. But you can bet that I will eventually get one, and when I do, my BHB method will be replaced by your dislodge and flush method. I really think your technique is as safe as a completely touch-free wash. I've said this so many times it's probably getting obnoxious by now, but... EVERY person on Autopia should be required to read your car wash method before they can post.
IMO, the vast majority of defects in paint are caused by washing. Paint can't be marred if it isn't touched, and pretty much the only time paint *is* touched is during washing or QDing.
In reality, I pretty much accept how clean the car comes after the BHB step, and only go to the ONR step if I need to actually touch the paint after washing. Like if I need to freshen up the LSP or do a real polishing. However, if the car isn't coming completely clean after the BHB, I know I need to freshen up the LSP ASAP.