How do you *trash* a product that you've never tried??

BlackElantraGT said:
That reminds me of one of the chemical company's commercial where their slogan was:

"We don't make a lot of the products you buy. We make a lot of the products you buy better."



I always thought that was a really catchy line.
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Always kind’a liked those commercials, made me want to go out and paint a car with Glasurit.





PC.
 
gbackus said:
That's a laughable statement at best. There have been plenty of beta testers on this board who can account for RDF49's durability. And well, if you want to discount their experiences because it was a beta product, I expect you to **** up about, "oh, my clear seal beta lasts 8 months and the final product is better blah blah blah." In fact, I can point you to a thread where SpoiledMan gets near a year in durability, in one of the harshest climates in the united(in city rated highest for ozone content parked next to a railway, and underneath a flight path amongst other environmental contaminants); As if beta's only exist is some magical zaino fantasy world.



Here, check it out, http://autopia.org/forum/click-brag/92504-beading-50-weeks-3.html , I'm sure you saw it before but were too afraid to post. Then again, maybe you'll just run back to your detailers club of banned autopians and cry about how we're orchestrating attacks on Zaino and the church of Sal. Waaaahhhhh
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Thank you for the link. I did not know that RDF49 is the same as ultima. Guess I better pay attention more to the secret decoder ring. Thanks for taking time out of your busy day to answer my question. Also thanks for reading my posts, that really makes me feel bad that you read mine and I ignored the post you pointed out to me. :nono



They have this place in Atlanta called the Hartsfield airport, maybe you have heard of it before. I might know someone who parks a car there for 50 hrs a week. I think it might be the busiest airport in the country, along with Chicago. I'll bet that would be a good place to beta test a product. :nixweiss
 
I believe is this thread was about any other products, it would have been closed anyways.



To my knowledge, nobody has really ripped into Ultima on any sites I have been to, but I have seen people who have basically felt that the marketing is in poor taste. However, this thread has seen a lot of Zaino bashing, IMO, and I am shocked this is allowed to continue. SpoiledMan, your object is clear. I could be wrong (and if I am I apologize) but didn't you make post once, speaking how Zaino beta testers defend there products and are zombies, and this shouldn't be allowed because it is like producers having "payrolled" memebers with hidden adjendas. (I will look for the post).



In the meantime, you definetly have been pushing Ultima, and it is known that you beta tested it. It seems slightly ironic. How quickly tunes change, I suppose.



David, I was reading your Zaino comparo, where you claim one coat will produce maximum results. In your testing, would you say that one coat of Ultima will truely outshine the Zaino cocktail (as I call it): 2 coats of Z2pro/1x Z5pro/CS/Z8. If this is your belief (as implied in your page) I would love to give Ultima a try.



I used to be a big Meg's fan, and switched to Zaino because it offers (offered perhaps) the best product for my clients. If Ultima can match this, I have no loyalty to any product line, and would love to make the change.



This thread was started with a purpose, and it will probably spiral out of control from here (as it hasn't already)....
 
There a Zaino Zealots, Meguiarites. Zymolians, The Poorboys crew, Klassicons, MezernaManiacs, Sonusians, MothersLovers, etc. etc. etc.



May I quote Mike Phillips of Meguiar's.com?



"Find something you like and use it often"



If you find a product you like, then apparently the results look good in your eyes, if you use it often, then your finish will always look great. It's only when you begin to neglect or abuse the finish that it goes down hill.
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:buffing: and :waxing: to your little heart's content with what YOU like. After all, a clean car is a happy car!
 
DaGonz said:
There a Zaino Zealots, Meguiarites. Zymolians, The Poorboys crew, Klassicons, MezernaManiacs, Sonusians, MothersLovers, etc. etc. etc.



May I quote Mike Phillips of Meguiar's.com?







:buffing: and :waxing: to your little heart's content with what YOU like. After all, a clean car is a happy car!
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Well said.....:2thumbs:



Can you believe this is all over wax products. Some much mud slinging over something that makes your car look good....Pretty sad....:sadwavey:
 
DaGonz said:
There a Zaino Zealots, Meguiarites. Zymolians, The Poorboys crew, Klassicons, MezernaManiacs, Sonusians, MothersLovers, etc. etc. etc.
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:har: :har: :har: I like it.



I got first dibs on a reality TV show.



I always tell my wife how silly the "Real world" or one of those shows is. Then she will give me a "kick in the nuts" by saying "As the detailing world spins." :LOLOL :LOLOL
 
TH0001 said:
SpoiledMan, your object is clear. I could be wrong (and if I am I apologize) but didn't you make post once, speaking how Zaino beta testers defend there products and are zombies, and this shouldn't be allowed because it is like producers having "payrolled" memebers with hidden adjendas. (I will look for the post).
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You're kidding right? Please read the OP. My objective was clear. There are members that I asked to edit posts that were made on the very first page as I didn't want this to become a bickering session.



Please find that post as I don't recall saying anything like that. I'm a Zaino user as well if that even matters. Like you, I also don't have a blind following to anything as I know that better is either available or coming sooner or later. I keep an ear to the ground. I have some threads posted on this forum with some awesome results from Zaino.



Your insinuation that I'm a shill isn't taken lightly. I paid for the cost of entry and it was in excess of $200. Why was I willing to pay that much to get in? I've never used a product that gave me more than 2-3 months of true protection on my mini-van that see horrid conditions other than the beta of PGP that made it to 50 weeks of beading with no sweat. Should I assume the same about you being an enthusiastic Zaino user?



Oh, and your apology is accepted.
 
wannafbody said:
The same question could be asked of Ultima, Klasse, JW, Duragloss, Optimum etc. Why just ask about Zaino? For years Zaino has performed above other products. There must be a reason why. Whatever the reason is that's why Sal has the repeat business he does. Otherwise he would have been last months flavor 15 years ago.
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I know Meguiars, Optimum and Clearkote for sure make their own products. Do they make the base chemicals? I don't know but they do their own formulations and blending.



I just figure since it is apparently a big deal that apparently Adams doesn't and there is suspicion that Poorboy's doesn't either and usually the ones making the biggest deal are the Zaino supporters, I think it is a valid question. :nixweiss
 
beatdeadhorsedh0.jpg




This didn't get any body any where!
 
Scottwax said:
I know Meguiars, Optimum and Clearkote for sure make their own products. Do they make the base chemicals? I don't know but they do their own formulations and blending.



I just figure since it is apparently a big deal that apparently Adams doesn't and there is suspicion that Poorboy's doesn't either and usually the ones making the biggest deal are the Zaino supporters, I think it is a valid question. :nixweiss
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Personally I don't really care how the product is manufactured. I also don't really care what it's made of as long as it works and doesn't harm my cars finish. I do think it is ironic that many make a big deal out of how Zaino is manufactured but could care less about how CG is manufactured and how many versions of CG products are made. Is 5050 really any different than XXX or NB? It wouldn't surprise me at all if the only difference between a lot of these products is the bottle, fragrance and color. In the end each person has to choose based on how they perceive the "supplier" of the product.
 
Jakerooni said:
I think I would be a great independent study of sorts in the real world envoiroment. I'd be willing to purchase a selection of each if someone can tell me what they would like tested. .
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Go for it! I'm in the process of a PPP/PGP vs. ZAIO/Z2Pro (non ZFX'd) test as we speak on my hood....
 
wannafbody said:
Personally I don't really care how the product is manufactured. I also don't really care what it's made of as long as it works and doesn't harm my cars finish. I do think it is ironic that many make a big deal out of how Zaino is manufactured but could care less about how CG is manufactured and how many versions of CG products are made. Is 5050 really any different than XXX or NB? It wouldn't surprise me at all if the only difference between a lot of these products is the bottle, fragrance and color. In the end each person has to choose based on how they perceive the "supplier" of the product.
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You are missing the point. The companies suspected of relabing CG stuff get bashed all the time and mostly by Zaino people-but I am not saying you do it pesonally. Anyway, I am more just curious than anything else. Hell, I used Zaino today and the RX I did looked terrific when I finished. Whether Sal blends and bottles his own product or not, I'll still use the Zaino that I have. I'm not throwing out good product.
 
Regardless of how products are manufactured or by whom or what kind of marketing campaign is used, the original question was why would someone feel compelled to trash a product they've never used.



Fundamentally, the reason why is because their sense of self is wrapped up in the other product. Whether they're conscious of it or not (usually not), it has become part of "who they are" so-to-speak, or more accurately who they think they are. If it is challenged or threatened, they themselves feel challenged and threatened and so must defend. Obviously, this is on a small-scale since we're talking about car sealant here, but the reactive pattern can be similar to even that of an actual physical threat, wherein adrenaline levels are raised, heart-rate goes up, etc.



The debate can go on endlessly and is not reserved for detailing gear, although obviously we here are sometimes really attuned to that. The PC vs Mac debate, as mentioned, also springs to mind. Any consumer good, political affiliation, where we live, sports teams are fair game. It can also apply to car makes/performance (ahem ;)). The list is infinite and it all has to do with identifying oneself in part or whole with a product or some mental position and trying to "find" oneself in that and, in so doing, attempting to feel more complete. The problem is it doesn't work and never has. It may appear to work in the short-term by perhaps winning an argument or proving someone wrong or something (and that may feel good initially), but that is really just a band-aid covering up the real problem--identification with form.



In Buddhist culture (of which I know very little), there are physical forms (like sealant as a teeny-tiny example) and thought forms (like sealant A sucks). Excessive identification with either is materialism and can be a cause of great suffering for that person even if he/she is unaware of it. You could even say that all of what I've stated above is a thought form, a position that I've identified with. And it would be if I derived my sense of self from it and felt the compulsion to defend it. I don't, so it's not. All they are are letters typed onto a computer screen--nothing more and nothing less.



To sum up, Setec had it in post 10 and Jakerooni's "ego-trip" reference is also true.
 
Funny that this thread was written about Ultima, but once again, I have yet to see anybody trash the PRODUCT on any forum. I have seen people who are disgusted by the low ball advertising.



My degree is in bussiness with a minor in marketing, and one of my best friends from college is SoBe's marketing director. We discussed the marketing campaign and in his professional and my college educated opinions, the marketing is not designed to switch people from brand A to brand B but to unite those who don't like brand A. Its a tatic that we will see in the next 15 months as the political campaigns kick off. It seems desperate, and in both of our opinions, the marketing is outdated (low ball marketing died in the early '90's, and who ever the marketing director of this product is should be fired, honestly).



Regarding people bashing products they never tested, all one has to do is make a post about Meguiars's polishes and suddenly half the forum will tell you they are fillers. However I have tested this and never found it true. Its not just the Zaino guys who spread internet rumours and repeat like facts, its pretty much everybody.



Again, I haven't noticed anybody knocking Ultima the product (I personally cannot wait to see some more objective reviews because what looks best/last longest is what I demand for my customers). Infact I am hoping that Ultima is "The World Champion" and "BLOWS Zaino away" because it will only serve to benefit me, but I will always think that the marketing behind the product was wrong.



Spoiled, I don't know what shill is. All I am saying is that I remember you either saying or agreeing about Zaino people who test products being biased in another post, and its ironic. I never said anything about you not liking one product or another more.
 
SpoiledMan said:
You're kidding right? Please read the OP. My objective was clear. There are members that I asked to edit posts that were made on the very first page as I didn't want this to become a bickering session.



Please find that post as I don't recall saying anything like that. I'm a Zaino user as well if that even matters. Like you, I also don't have a blind following to anything as I know that better is either available or coming sooner or later. I keep an ear to the ground. I have some threads posted on this forum with some awesome results from Zaino.



Your insinuation that I'm a shill isn't taken lightly. I paid for the cost of entry and it was in excess of $200. Why was I willing to pay that much to get in? I've never used a product that gave me more than 2-3 months of true protection on my mini-van that see horrid conditions other than the beta of PGP that made it to 50 weeks of beading with no sweat. Should I assume the same about you being an enthusiastic Zaino user?



Oh, and your apology is accepted.
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The OP was a thinly disguised effort to call of Zaino users who are bashing Ultima's marketing on another site. I have not seen one post that is bad about Ultima (the product yet). So how you can you make a post that about something that doesn't exist? Nobody has knocked the product, as in the OP, but people cannot believe the marketing.



I am in that boat, as I stated earlier, its what I went to school for (partly). I love the innocent "I'm not going to name product lines, but......" Give me a break, most of the Zaino guys I know where excited to try Ultima (I'm talking the die hard Zaino guys), however the aggressive marketing turned many people off, right off the bat.



Personally, the marketing doesn't effect my ultimate decision (I don't agree with some of Zaino's marketing either) to use a product, the net effect on my customers does.



As far as the attacks against Zaino being a form of flattery, this is poor reasoning, like when your mom told you not to fight the bully because he was insecure. The truth is she didn't want you to come home with a black eye. But I guess when the democrats bash the republicans (or visaversa) its really because they admire them, right?
 
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