How do you *trash* a product that you've never tried??

SpoiledMan said:
I'm reading some threads on another site where a product is just being slammed by a group of people that have never tried it? It just so happens that many/all of them are loyal to another product. Does this happen out of some sort of fear or is is just hate?



This isn't meant to be a name calling/mud slinging fest or to call out what products or any particular people but only to discuss why things like this happen.



Discuss...
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You say that you where innocently asking this question in general? Seriously? The answer is simple, and that is people defending things that they identify with for whatever reason. Thread closed, IMO.



However, I feel (as many do, and I believe you haven't disputed this) that this is regard to Ultima vs. Zaino. I haven't seen one instance of Ultima, the product being bashed at all. I have seen people strongly (myself included) disagreeing with the marketing prespective. Again, I have stated that I'm sure Ultima is great, and I will try it in the future, and I will also compare it to Zaino. I'm excited when a product comes out that can possibly make my clients happier.



Which site where you on and what products are being bashed, if you don't mind, since you are now saying that this was a question based in general?
 
TH0001 said:
You say that you where innocently asking this question in general? Seriously? The answer is simple, and that is people defending things that they identify with for whatever reason. Thread closed, IMO.



However, I feel (as many do, and I believe you haven't disputed this) that this is regard to Ultima vs. Zaino. I haven't seen one instance of Ultima, the product being bashed at all. I have seen people strongly (myself included) disagreeing with the marketing prespective. Again, I have stated that I'm sure Ultima is great, and I will try it in the future, and I will also compare it to Zaino. I'm excited when a product comes out that can possibly make my clients happier.



Which site where you on and what products are being bashed, if you don't mind, since you are now saying that this was a question based in general?
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Yep a question in general. Those that have seen for themselves or are participating brought the information back to this thread. I didn't do it in my OP and wont do it now. There are people that obviously agree with what I'm saying and that's enough. I won't go back and forth quoting.



Now, do you care to answer what I quoted above?



Quote:

Originally Posted by TH0001

In the meantime, you definetly have been pushing Ultima, and it is known that you beta tested it. It seems slightly ironic. How quickly tunes change, I suppose.
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What do you mean by this?
 
TH0001 said:
Your test is fair in what it is, but I was looking from the persepective of supporting the marketing claims. I will be very interested in your test, regarding its objectivity, though I think by tsome of the comments you made, you seem to at least have a distaste for either Zaino or its users. I will use what ever product allows me to serve my customers better, and I personally don't care who gets my money, as long as my customers are fully satisfied.
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Here's the thing: I'm in NO way trying to support marketing claims. And why should I? I'm simply pitting prep/sealant vs. prep/sealant. Like Pat300ZX and countless others, I've been nothing but impressed with most of the Z line. I am uncertain as to how you concluded that I dislike Z; if you read back a few posts, I plan on returning Ultima if it doesn't meet or exceed my Z application. Z is the benchmark for Ultima to beat. Too bad the Roadfly forum is such a pain in the rear to navigate, otherwise I'd find some links to threads where certain members (on that forum) were bashing (read: Bullying) FK1 users. So no, I have no dislike or distaste of Zaino or its users, I like the stuff, but I am fully aware that there are certain persons whose actions reflect negatively on the product.



All this bickering has left me with a bad taste for both product lines, and quite frankly, I'm ready to go back to other lines....
 
DavidB said:
I guess Apple didn't hear about this rule when they started the very popular, and funny, slam campaign on the PC.
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The section that you are referring to I quoted and it was not posted by me originally. That was posted by someone else. I simply cut and pasted that. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I'm bowing out of this thread so as to not throw more gasoline on the fire.
 
DavidB said:
When Ryan called me on my misquote, I fixed. My bad... I read it wrong.
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Thank you for clarifying this. I'm publically stating that it was wrong for me to question anything amiss in regards to ethics.
 
DavidB said:
Scott, if you want to do a fair side-by-side test and report your findings, I will send you the Ultima products. Out in the open, no benefit to you either way... let me have it between the eyes if you think Ultima sucks.
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I already have the UPGP but not the polish.



Right now, I have UPGP vs Opti-Seal side by side on my brother's van. I'll be over at his house on Monday, he said he'd try to run his van through the tunnel wash so it would be clean enough to evaluate. I figure his 2-3 times a month tunnel wash car care regiment will be a good test of both products.



I might use his wife's Mountaineer to do ZAIO and Clear Seal vs UPPP and UPGP. Same 2-3 times a month tunnel washes. No wax, no QDs. My brother has no time for that stuff at all.
 
Scott,



I am just curious but how does Opti-seal compare to to Zaino CS? Are the looks comparable? I do planning on trying some Utima products in the coming few weeks, so I can do a comparison as well.
 
I just got Opti-Seal and am really liking it a lot. I don't read much about it, kind of surprising. Anyway, I might give the Ultima stuff a go if someone up here lets me sample it. I have the perfect candidate, my car. It hasn't been washed in 4 months (seriously).
 
Tuan209 said:
Scott,



I am just curious but how does Opti-seal compare to to Zaino CS? Are the looks comparable? I do planning on trying some Utima products in the coming few weeks, so I can do a comparison as well.
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Opti-Seal is noticably wetter looking than Clear Seal. Both are pretty durable so far (had them both about the same amount of time). OS vs UPGP...initially, UPGP was definitely wetter looking but after an 8-9 hour cure time, I couldn't tell them apart visually or by feel. Time will tell which actually is more durable.
 
Opti-Seal has pleasantly surprised me. My father-in-law's car has yet to be properly clayed and polished in more than 1 year, and over 2 months ago I decided to just give it a strong wash with CG's Citrus Wash n' Gloss and put on some Opti-Seal. The paint isn't anywhere near Autopian level, but his car has never looked this good in the 7-8 years he's owned it. I'm so tempted to put a quick layer of AW, but considering this is first wax on walk away type product, I wanted to see just how durable it is. After a wash, it beads and still looks the same as when it was freshly applied. I'm pretty happy with it so far, especially when I factor its cost and ease of use.
 
DavidB said:
Scott, if you want to do a fair side-by-side test and report your findings, I will send you the Ultima products. Out in the open, no benefit to you either way... let me have it between the eyes if you think Ultima sucks.
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Kinda funny you mention that I am doing that exact test right now.
 
DavidB said:
Most of you don't know it, but I wrote most of the marketing material and how-to instructions on the Zaino web site up to the point that ZFX was launched. In the process of writing the material, I used the products on many, many cars. I had to. I had to be 100% familiar with all of the product ins and outs. Other than Sal himself, I'd guess no one knows his products better than me.
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How long did you and Sal work together? How did you two get to know each other? Until I read this post a few months ago, I didn't realize you two knew each other as anything besides competitors.
 
bert31 said:
How long did you and Sal work together? How did you two get to know each other? Until I read this post a few months ago, I didn't realize you two knew each other as anything besides competitors.
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My casual friendship with Sal started in 1999 or 2000 when he called me regarding instructions I had written for applying Klasse. At the time, Sal was irritated that I was promoting a technique he believed was his and his alone; that being the process of applying the product up and down on the sides of the car. Anyway, that's how it started.



Over the next few years, Sal and I spoke frequently via phone, and I frequently asked if I could become a distributor or reseller of his line. The answer was always "no". Eventually, just prior to the launch of ZFX, Sal asked me to do some work for him around product marketing. I ended up re-writing the marketing text and all of the how-to instructions for the whole line, including ZFX. All of the verbiage around ZFX was my doing.



Somewhere around 2004-2005 I told Sal that if he wouldn't let me sell or distribute the Z line I'd be forced to create a line to take him on. Sal put down the challenge with something like "You'll never be able to do it..." or "Good luck...", something like that, and I got to work on the challenge that very day. That's how and why the Ultima brand was born.
 
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