HD Advanced Polish vs. Menzerna 85RD - Kind of surprising...

[GBGT]

For those who haven't read my last thread about my arguous struggle with my 2011 Jet Black BMW X5d with 65,000 miles, I have been trying everything to finish it without a haze, much of which has been to no avail. My first try was M105 and M205. This left a terrible haze. Then I tried adding Wolfgang Glaze 3.0 as a third step to remove the haze. It did nothing. So I ordered a bottle of Menzerna 85RD which I have heard many great things about as a finishing polish for cars with soft finicky clears. Around the same time Thomas Dekany messaged me asking if I would like a sample of the HD Advanced Polish, saying that it would give both 85RD and 3M Ultrafina a run for their money. To be honest I didn't expect much from the HD because frankly I haven't heard that much about it while their must be 500 threads on 85RD. I tested both out tonight and was pretty surprised at the results.

To those that are going to ask: "Where is the test panel with M105 --> 85RD?"



I did it on the left prior and id barely removed any of the M105 hazing so I figured I would try the HD Advanced as middle step. Much to my surprise the M105 --> HD not only took the marring from the M105 out but finished out much nicer than M105 --> HD --> 85RD. It appears as though the 85RD marred the paint and cause a slight haze after the HD. To the skeptics out their...I will do some more test spot and see if I can get some different results with the 85RD.

 

[David Fermani]

Great feedback and be glad that something actually worked on your finish that made you happy. I really think 85rd is a great finishing polish and is on par with how M105 is considered the one to beat as far as compounds go. However, you keep hearing nothing but great things about HD Polish so it obviously becoming proven as a top tier performer from the feedback of most who have tested it.



What I've noticed is that it's a "cleaner and easier" polish to work with as far as work times, removal and stubborn residual oils left on the surface. I've never noticed water laying so flat after a Dawn wash.



Keep us updated on your findings......

 

[imported_reeeko991]

Interesting..



At what speed did you run at ?



I've seen Poli-Seal on a finish pad do wonders on soft paint.



I've got Speed, Poli-Seal, and 106FF for the finicky paints. Menz leaves oils behind that could compromise your LSP...

So you have to do a IP wipe down of some sort. With HD Polish you can go right to your LSP.



I do like Speed however for that glossy finish. The HD Polish is on my future list however was I use up some of the others.

For those who haven't read my last thread about my arguous struggle with my 2011 Jet Black BMW X5d with 65,000 miles, I have been trying everything to finish it without a haze, much of which has been to no avail. My first try was M105 and M205. This left a terrible haze. Then I tried adding Wolfgang Glaze 3.0 as a third step to remove the haze. It did nothing. So I ordered a bottle of Menzerna 85RD which I have heard many great things about as a finishing polish for cars with soft finicky clears. Around the same time Thomas Dekany messaged me asking if I would like a sample of the HD Advanced Polish, saying that it would give both 85RD and 3M Ultrafina a run for their money. To be honest I didn't expect much from the HD because frankly I haven't heard that much about it while their must be 500 threads on 85RD. I tested both out tonight and was pretty surprised at the results.

To those that are going to ask: "Where is the test panel with M105 --> 85RD?"



I did it on the left prior and id barely removed any of the M105 hazing so I figured I would try the HD Advanced as middle step. Much to my surprise the M105 --> HD not only took the marring from the M105 out but finished out much nicer than M105 --> HD --> 85RD. It appears as though the 85RD marred the paint and cause a slight haze after the HD. To the skeptics out their...I will do some more test spot and see if I can get some different results with the 85RD.

 

[imported_RZJZA80]

Looks good, HD Polish is a good product for sure, although I wish it would have a bit more cut to possibly use it as a one step on some paints. I've never used Menzerna stuff and looks like I probably won't need to.

 

[IHA Mark]

Looks good, HD Polish is a good product for sure, although I wish it would have a bit more cut to possibly use it as a one step on some paints. I've never used Menzerna stuff and looks like I probably won't need to.

I thought that at first also, but Polish actually cuts really well when you use the right pad. I have been using Optimum MF cut pads with Polish and the last version of UNO, and the only thing UNO cuts better is oxidation. Polish even seems to take swirls out a big more efficiently.

 

[imported_RZJZA80]

I thought that at first also, but Polish actually cuts really well when you use the right pad. I have been using Optimum MF cut pads with Polish and the last version of UNO, and the only thing UNO cuts better is oxidation. Polish even seems to take swirls out a big more efficiently.

That's interesting, I think the only pad type I haven't tried polish with is a MF pad, but then I like to finish with foam pads (I work on a disgusting amount of black cars as well, it's sick really).

 

[GBGT]

I ran the M105 at speed 5 on the PC and the 2 finishing polishes at 4.5. I'm wondering if I need to use a middle step or if this going to HD Advanced on a finishing pad is all I need. Next I would like to compare M105 to HD Uno if I can get a sample, I still cant seem to get M105 to finish down very well. What compound have you been using David?

 

[Accumulator]

I've got..106FF for the finicky paints. Menz leaves oils behind that could compromise your LSP....

Just FWIW, I've never had the oils in 106FF compromise the LSP. Much to my surprise, the oils would indeed dissipate (exposing previously-concealed marring) but the LSP on top somehow stayed intact! Funny, huh?!? But that's how it worked out for me :nixweiss

 

[jmsc]

Were any of those lsp's sealants/coatings??

 

[Accumulator]

Were any of those lsp's sealants/coatings??

No, Collinite waxes (476S and 845).



When I've had oil-and-sealant issues they were always so bad it was a case of having to immediately sort it out, not a matter of durability/etc.



Also, note that I was sooo put off by the menzerna oils issue that I've avoided 106FF (the incident in question was a vehicle done by ebpcivicsi), though I'm not sure which version of 106 my BlackFire-label polish is

 

[imported_reeeko991]

In most cases when I use 106FF, I tend to go to Collinite 476 or 845 and then I don't worry about left over on the surface.



I tend to believe the Collinite products solvent bases during application doesn't care about any residual oils left form the polish??



But then again, maybe I'm working 106FF long enough that the oils aren't causing as much of a problem?



As always temps, conditions do come into play as well as other variables.



You know a ton more than I do Accumulator and I'll trust your judgement on that one...:bow

I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us.



I'm liking the looks of of HD Polish from the pics I see.

Just FWIW, I've never had the oils in 106FF compromise the LSP. Much to my surprise, the oils would indeed dissipate (exposing previously-concealed marring) but the LSP on top somehow stayed intact! Funny, huh?!? But that's how it worked out for me :nixweiss

 

[Accumulator]

I'v kinda nudged this off-topic, but I do think it bears discussion and I haven't posted about it for a while.

In most cases when I use 106FF, I tend to go to Collinite 476 or 845 and then I don't worry about left over on the surface.



I tend to believe the Collinite products solvent bases during application doesn't care about any residual oils left form the polish??



But then again, maybe I'm working 106FF long enough that the oils aren't causing as much of a problem?

Here's the short version: '04 GMC, corrected via rotary, finished via PC/106FF, LSPed with Collinite 476S and 845. Looked swell. Stored in climate controlled environment. Over a few months in storage, holograms/etc. gradually appeared as the Menzerna oils dissipated. Finally, it was so awful looking I would never have driven it. When I went to correct it, the Collinite was still 100%, had a bear of a job stripping it off.



Lessons I learned from it:

-oils/fillers can "go away" underneath some LSPs even though the LSPs stay OK

-oils/etc. under certain LSPs don't always compromise durability



OK, back on topic-

I'm liking the looks of of HD Polish from the pics I see.

Yeah, I'm kinda second-guessing my recent purchase of PO85RD. I put off buying it for *years* and now that it's on the shelf I kinda wish I'd put it off indefinitely



And I keep thinking how somebody here used Polish on exterior plastic with great results. Gotta be a little careful which polishes you use for that (don't do it with M205!).

 

[GBGT]

After posting this thread I've been looking at other threads about 85RD and all of them say the same sort of thing:



"PO 85RD: Finishes flawless and leaves the deepest finish I have ever seen after a polish. It cuts at a 2 out of 10 (very light...similar to Meg's #82) and leaves behind almost no polishing oils (no fillers whatsoever)."



Meanwhile I got a very light haze...Is there some trick to using it? I thought for sure it would outdo the HD Polish but it was quite the opposite. My bottle of "SF4500" is indeed 85RD correct?

 

[jmsc]

Never experienced what others are seeing with PO85RD. I bought my bottle many years ago thru Phil at Detailers Domain when it was available only in Europe. Its worked flawlessly on cc and soft single stage paint for me and I've used it many times with LC black, red, gold pads. Never tried it on ceramiclear.



I even used it as an lsp on a car that I sold eventually. That's how good the final finish is with 85RD.



Could Menzerna have changed the original formulation over the years?

 

[Thomas Dekany]

Thank you for posting your findings. I have the same experience with HD POLISH. To my eyes, HD POLISH is much deeper than 85rd. Also, be aware that most people have never worked on Jet Black paint. Your paint is a completely different animal. Did you say you want to try HD UNO?

After posting this thread I've been looking at other threads about 85RD and all of them say the same sort of thing:



"PO 85RD: Finishes flawless and leaves the deepest finish I have ever seen after a polish. It cuts at a 2 out of 10 (very light...similar to Meg's #82) and leaves behind almost no polishing oils (no fillers whatsoever)."



Meanwhile I got a very light haze...Is there some trick to using it? I thought for sure it would outdo the HD Polish but it was quite the opposite. My bottle of "SF4500" is indeed 85RD correct?

 

[imported_Bence]

After posting this thread I've been looking at other threads about 85RD and all of them say the same sort of thing:



"PO 85RD: Finishes flawless and leaves the deepest finish I have ever seen after a polish. It cuts at a 2 out of 10 (very light...similar to Meg's #82) and leaves behind almost no polishing oils (no fillers whatsoever)."



Meanwhile I got a very light haze...Is there some trick to using it? I thought for sure it would outdo the HD Polish but it was quite the opposite. My bottle of "SF4500" is indeed 85RD correct?

There is no trick to it.



BMW Jet Black, Honda Nighthawk Black and certain Subaru colors are just that soft. Like a jellyfish indeed, you can mar them with a MF towel. Only a handful of products can correct those and usually you see terrible dropback after an IPA wipedown, even when the surface was perfect and you've worked it looong enough...

 

[GBGT]

Actually I'd really like to try HD Poxy. I currently use Wolfgang Deep Gloss Sealant and have for a while, but I've heard a lot of good things about Poxy. I'd love to do a comparison.

 

[Time 2 shine]

GBGT: M105 is a very aggressive compound and your paint it very soft and IMO is overkill in this situation. So far you've used M105 and only have changed the polishes for the "finishing" stage. I would go in a different direction and use a compound and pad that's less aggressive that will still remove defects but will leave less of a haze to clear up with final polishing.

 

[GBGT]

GBGT: M105 is a very aggressive compound and your paint it very soft and IMO is overkill in this situation. So far you've used M105 and only have changed the polishes for the "finishing" stage. I would go in a different direction and use a compound and pad that's less aggressive that will still remove defects but will leave less of a haze to clear up with final polishing.

I'm glad you brought this up. I tried M105 on an LC White and it did not remove all the swirls and definitely did not remove the RIDS. Even the M105 with an LC Orange took multiple passes. With that being said I agree, M105 finishes horribly on my paint. It leaves pretty awful micro marring that leaves a lot left for the polish to fix. I recently posted another thread looking for alternatives to M105. What would you suggest?... D300, Menzerna SIP?

 

[Accumulator]

I'm glad you brought this up. I tried M105 on an LC White and it did not remove all the swirls and definitely did not remove the RIDS. Even the M105 with an LC Orange took multiple passes. With that being said I agree, M105 finishes horribly on my paint. It leaves pretty awful micro marring that leaves a lot left for the polish to fix. I recently posted another thread looking for alternatives to M105. What would you suggest?... D300, Menzerna SIP?

I'm never all that happy with how M105 finishes either, even on really hard clear. Seems just *so* easy to cause some micromarring during buff-off, even with lots of M34/etc. Usually looks pretty OK until/unless I hit it with the SunGun, which tells the true story. But hey, M105 is a *compound*, so I don't sweat it.



For cases where I don't need all the cut of M105, I use either Optimum Hyper Spray Compound or 3D Uno. But if those aren't getting the correction done I'll switch to the M105 until I've finished the aggressive work. The Uno *will* do the aggressive work all by itself (especially with MF cutting disks), but sometimes I'd rather speed things up with the M105.