Have Click N Brags "Jumped the Shark"???????

toyotaguy said:
I agree with you overboost!



when you see a TON of products on the market, yet see the same top pros using something completely different, its probably not because they dont know about the OTC products!!! That is one thing I try to do on MOST of my articles....tell what product I use for what step. Having a Before, and After section only post is pointless, put that up on your own website, not a detailing forum! On autopia, it helps to guide people who want to do things their own (part of the reason a lot of people are on this site in general) if you have the products listed. A C&B with menzerna this, HD, that, Meguiars here, etc is going to help a rookie detailer weed through, and skip, the horrible products on the market and try what is better known for producing better results...because lets face it, its NOT all in the technique. I have used some really crappy products and wasted a ton of money on in the past, so I would rather tell someone NOT to order that, but rather this!
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Major point right here. I hate reading through anyones thread pro or weekend warrior and not knowing what they use. I would love to know combos from product, buffer and pad to see what results they yielded.
 
MachNU said:
Major point right here. I hate reading through anyones thread pro or weekend warrior and not knowing what they use. I would love to know combos from product, buffer and pad to see what results they yielded.
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Totally agree. Showing what you use builds credibility in my book. It gives people the chance to try and better understand what went into the process.
 
MarcHarris said:
Advancements and understanding of DA polishers has lead a lot of enthusiasts to start working on their own vehicles.
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I look at this as not a completely bad thing for business, quite frankly. Even with DA polishers becoming more advanced and accessible to the masses, it still takes some skill to produce a result in the end. Enthusiasts can work on their skills and get good after a considerable amount of practice, but if they need over-the-top quality in a short amount of time, there is still a call for professionals to offer their services, though maybe not always in the traditional sense.



My contention is that professionals who wish to work with the enthusiast market can offer hands-on training on a one-on-one or small group basis for local enthusiasts who want to ultimately work on their cars themselves, and not have it significantly detract from their business in other segments of the market. There are plenty of cars out there, either exotics owned by people who would never work on them themselves, or daily drivers owned by people who couldn't care less about trying to do their own detailing. The segment of enthusiasts with a drive to work on their cars actually represents a whole new market to explore since we now have a cost effective, relatively/comparatively safe, and "easy" to pick up way to get them where they want to go.



Not only does this allow the professional to cater to people who they would otherwise never be earning any business from, but I have always found that teaching someone else how to do something often sparks new ideas and a better/deeper understanding myself of what I am doing. You'd be getting paid, helping someone else be a better detailer of their own vehicle(s), and seizing the opportunity to better yourself all in one fell swoop.



The same applies to forum posts. Taking the time to break down the processes you use and put them into words for the benefit of others can help you spot redundant steps and inefficiencies that might otherwise never occur to you.



One of the biggest fears I think people have when posting on a public forum is that potential customers, fellow detailers, and pretty much anyone else can see what is written and make judgement based upon it. It's natural for someone who is trying to be and appear professional not to want to ever look "wrong" -- that is, if they post advice or an opinion that someone else can provide evidence is incorrect, people will see them as less professional. In many cases I think the opposite can be true. If people see someone post something that is wrong and then correct it, reacting in a positive and mature manner and learning from it can make others respect a professional MORE. No one is perfect, and someone with no flaws (or at least someone who is so unwilling to ever show or acknowledge any flaws) can in many ways be dangerous as compared to someone who embraces their flaws and uses them as a means to better themselves and provide a teachable moment for others.
 
For me in the beginning, 2004, it was nice to read about what other pro's were doing. Products and techniques were much different then. It was hard to weed through products and techniques that would work on all paint. See their work and explanations on why they did that. See what LSP products looked liked the best.



I have not visited the Click n Brags 'much' in years. Besides the 100 picture write ups on garage queens and the endless 100% perfection claims. I lost interest.



With the products today, 105, 101, UNO etc. It is not hard to pick up a machine and do quality work, if time and money allow it. Not trying to take away from anyone, just stating the facts.



So doing a write up on paint correction, does not hold the same difficulty and intrigue it used to. Chest thumping is always fun, though.
 
Definitely an interesting subject for discussion



The most valuable post’s of this elk are the one that explain the process and the products used, with a few 50/50 shots, these would be of more value than 100’s of photographs of polished, albeit scratch free panels.



Consider your readership, Autopian’s know what an almost perfect polished surface looks like, someone looking for a pro detailer only want to see if you can make his vehicle ( which is probably not a Ferrari or a Maserati) look like it did when it came from the showroom. The other side of the coin is the up and coming detailer who is here to learn and wants to ‘know how and what’ was used to accomplish the results shown.



This format (Click & Brag) is an invaluable advertising medium allied to a website and perhaps a blog where a prospective client can ask questions



IMO a few picture and an explanation are both informative and instructive , a story that will hold the readers interest better than 100 shots of various panels i.e. (Detailer's Domain: GMC Sierra Denali HD - Northern NJ - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums)







Indulge me if I take this off-topic slightly; on various forums I'm always being asked (approx three times a day) to recommend a professional detailer in XX state and refer them to the Autopia’s Professional Detailer’s Directory - it will definitively improve your word-of-mouth recommendations; but if your business details aren't listed ...





 
MachNU said:
With circular logic, it still boils down to perception of people. The people with the bigger names will always get more traffic, which in turns elevates their name more. When this happens it takes traffic from the little guys threads, who like you said, may have hit a home run. Then eventually it falls off the page, going unnoticed. It will never change.
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Although this is true to some degree, take Bob Willis' (AutoConcierge) most recent post about the Porsche Cayenne Turbo. Always produces stellar work, takes great pics, has a HUGE name, client base and following. The post is of a 500hp, very exclusive SUV, yet at this point it has over 200 views and only 6 replies, one of which is his. I think this points to what David says about C&B's losing some of their effectiveness, regardless of whether its a big fish, smaller guy or enthusiast posting his own cars.



Nth Degree said:
As for responding to the comments; I have been guilty of that at times. In part because I did not post them for the accolades or approval. I think many times it has been because many of us are on multiple sites, so I don't feel the need to respond to each one on multiple sites. I also feel a certain camaraderie with many of the regular posters and I feel reciprocating comments on their posts implies the appreciation. And I agree that sometimes "Thanks" is really the only appropriate response to the all-too-common "Nice work" comment. (Sometimes driven by posting contests.) But point taken. I will be more conscientious about that.
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I agree 100% with Chris. While there are some obvious "cliques" in the detailing community, that is bound to happen when there are so many forums and you see the same names and faces in multiple spots. While the bigger, more established or more "seasoned" detailing forum vets obviously have had more time interacting with each other, I can appreciate the fact that they "know" each other a little better, probably IRL as well, and therefore will likely always post on each other's threads. Likewise, there are some smaller guys that I feel a sort of kinship with, for whatever reason. Being a relative newcomer to forums, and detailing in general, I see some other "new school" detailers that I recognize from other forums, or that are just starting to show their work outside of general posts, and I try to comment on their posts when I can. All of this goes toward that sense of community, which is why many are here in the first place.





Anyway, sorry for the ramble. It's early, I still haven't had coffee, and I'm scatterbrained to begin with. Please don't hold any of this against me.
 
hrmm...

I'm only on this site(no other detailing sites) and I can tell you that this post kind of offends me as a 'Newbie' to the forums. When I first came on here I can tell you I read, read and read more posts on what as done and how it was done by both professionals and us amateurs. Back then I thought to myself, maybe I can post in the 'weekend warriors' section because I had/have no desire to compete with some of you professionals and I simply don't have the $ to invest like some of you have. I take what you has been done and see what was used and slowly purchase what I saw was an incredible results. The combining (click and brag) has made me a bit weary to even post what I have done. I kind of thought that this was what Autopia was all about. Sharing the knowledge but your post kind of makes it sound like this is an exclusive club?



This post basically says to me I could be parting of the flooding or dissolution of the proper content?



As for Garry Dean being the and breaking the chain of mediocrity? I don't really like the videos but I think the results are incredible. I like the simple before/after pictures of the major surface problems.



I wish we could get rid of the 'Click & Brag' section and put them back to the pro/amateur sections.
 
Here's my $.02 coming from someone who is not a pro, but just trying to keep my own cars clean: When I first joined a few years ago, I thought the C&B section was great. There were some crappy posts, but many were threads from trusted veterans that, as previously mentioned, took the time to detail their process. I remember they would mention things like how the car didn't respond to a certain product, so they tried a different combination which worked great. Nowadays, it seems there are too many threads where someone just throws up a bunch of pictures, and barely mentions anything. The only ones I typically look at are the ones I know are by people that do good C&B threads, or if it's a car that I really want to see. Sure, I know the pros are busy and don't have the time, but it's not about quantity, but quality. I'd rather read a great thread from you once a month, rather than some crappy one every other day. One thing I really remember reading more, was when a person had a special situation that they came across, and described what they did to fix it. Those are the threads where people can learn from.



Some threads really are pointless. I've seen a lot of them lately where the subject says "new BMW coated with Opticoat". Who cares? It's a new car that needed little/no correction and you put some sealant on it. We all know that pictures don't do justice to the real thing, so that car doesn't really look any different in the pictures after the Opticoat, than it did before.



Another beef I have is too many/too few pictures. It seems the majority fall into this category. Someone starts out with "I didn't have time to take before shots." OK, the car looks shiny, but I don't know what it looked like before, so it kind of takes the luster out of the whole point of the thread. Or someone does a thread with literally 100 pictures of every part of the car. I don't want to see a picture of every stinking door handle. Show me a few overall shots, and a few key areas that needed extra attention.



But the one that really irritates me the most? Crappy pictures. I swear, half the threads now are taken with cell phones and have bad color and clarity. I can barely tell what color the car is, let alone see the swirls it had, or see how wet the color looks after it's done. I know very few people are going to also be professional photographers here, but take some pride in your photos and buy a reasonable camera instead of a crappy cell phone.



IMO, C&B should always have what you used, as well as what you may have tried that didn't work. Don't post a C&B every day, or even every week. Keep it to ones where you did something different, learned something different, etc. Obviously newbies are going to be excited to post their first real detail (I know I did), but after that, keep it to quality, not quantity. Post up a couple pictures of the car before it's washed, and after. I see a lot of threads where people post how awful it looks before being washed, but then they don't post any of post wash, so you can really see how the paint looked. Then don't go overboard on the process pictures. Post a couple 50/50 shots for the dramatic affect, but that's it unless you've got some special areas you want to highlight like if you did something special, or had a trouble spot to go through. Then finish up with the obligatory sunshine pictures. I hate the threads where the person didn't take any because it was too late/dark. Well what's the point of the thread if you don't have after shots? Isn't that the point of C&B? One other suggestion I really like, try to take the same post detail shots as you took prior to polishing. Especially if you are lucky enough to have similar lighting for both. Those are the pictures that really show the transformation. It's a bit annoying when someone has pictures of the entire car out in the sun prior to detailing, but then after it's done, they take indoor pictures, and don't even show the entire car to see the difference.



Take my thoughts with a grain of salt, but that's how I feel.
 
DeanSweet said:
hrmm...

I'm only on this site(no other detailing sites) and I can tell you that this post kind of offends me as a 'Newbie' to the forums. When I first came on here I can tell you I read, read and read more posts on what as done and how it was done by both professionals and us amateurs. Back then I thought to myself, maybe I can post in the 'weekend warriors' section because I had/have no desire to compete with some of you professionals and I simply don't have the $ to invest like some of you have. I take what you has been done and see what was used and slowly purchase what I saw was an incredible results. The combining (click and brag) has made me a bit weary to even post what I have done. I kind of thought that this was what Autopia was all about. Sharing the knowledge but your post kind of makes it sound like this is an exclusive club?



This post basically says to me I could be parting of the flooding or dissolution of the proper content?



As for Garry Dean being the and breaking the chain of mediocrity? I don't really like the videos but I think the results are incredible. I like the simple before/after pictures of the major surface problems.



I wish we could get rid of the 'Click & Brag' section and put them back to the pro/amateur sections.
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My videos are definately NOT for everyone, but neither are stills and photochop.



Through my videos I can give my peers and my potential clients a taste of what they can expect from not only the quality of work I provide, but also my personality and realistic mindset. Im the type of guy who would rather watch a video any day rather than scroll through 50-60 pictures that have probably been enhanced in some way anyways.



I am not trying to slam photoshop users, but I just believe what the camera produces is what should be shown. Thats exactly why I like shooting videos. When I am done with a detail and sit down to compile my video clips there is no true editing that goes into it. I am literally cutting out the fluff and compiling what I consider to be the quality segments.



I have had amazing success with my YouTube channel. There is no way I would ever stop. Far more people enjoy my videos than dislike them. Otherwise, whats the point of even doing them?
 
I posted 1 vehicle write up in 2011 because quite honestly, I am too busy to do a write up to the level that I would like to.



It takes a serious amount of time (ask Marc Harris) to not only construct the write up but, to have the write up in mind as you complete the work. To create a proper write up you really have to keep the write up task in your head as you are detailing.
 
Deep Gloss Auto Salon said:
I posted 1 vehicle write up in 2011 because quite honestly, I am too busy to do a write up to the level that I would like to.



It takes a serious amount of time (ask Marc Harris) to not only construct the write up but, to have the write up in mind as you complete the work. To create a proper write up you really have to keep the write up task in your head as you are detailing.
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Yes they do take time, even the write ups I do now take too much of my time. I take less pictures and dont really have the time for 50/50s when on location. Joey and I corrected a 2010 barbon black M5 yesterday. I took some good before pictures of the defects, time we got done at 6p it was dark out. So whats the use of trying to take pictures in a clients smaller garage at night. I know the car would of looked baller in the sun, but oh well.
 
gmblack3 said:
Yes they do take time, even the write ups I do now take too much of my time. I take less pictures and dont really have the time for 50/50s when on location. Joey and I corrected a 2010 barbon black M5 yesterday. I took some good before pictures of the defects, time we got done at 6p it was dark out. So whats the use of trying to take pictures in a clients smaller garage at night. I know the car would of looked baller in the sun, but oh well.
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Bryan: What's the matter with taking before pictures in the full sun and the afters in a garage??? :hurt: :fencing: :flame:
 
I think we need to listen to what DeanSweet said. Those of us that post regularly think similarly, but we tend to forget about the hundreds or potentially thousands of members and visitors who don't bother to voice their opinions. Rather than ripping on the poor posts, perhaps a list of tips for write ups made into a sticky.



For those who say they don't have time to do write ups, consider the value to the owner of a car if you provide them a personal write up for their garage queen. For my clients who want full corrections I document each step and take tons of photos. Each client I have done this for has been blown away. Some I see regularly and they tell me how they show it to all their friends to show what the car looked like before, and sometimes reminds them of their own amazement upon seeing their car for the first time after the detail. My forum posts are often just a watered down version of those.
 
I'm always all for perpetual learning of technique and process. If a C&B thread can teach me a specific one and open my eyes to alternative methods of improving any aspect of a detail, I'm truly grateful to the detailer who takes the time to do so.
 
Grimm said:
Here's my $.02 coming from someone who is not a pro, but just trying to keep my own cars clean: When I first joined a few years ago, I thought the C&B section was great. There were some crappy posts, but many were threads from trusted veterans that, as previously mentioned, took the time to detail their process. I remember they would mention things like how the car didn't respond to a certain product, so they tried a different combination which worked great. Nowadays, it seems there are too many threads where someone just throws up a bunch of pictures, and barely mentions anything. The only ones I typically look at are the ones I know are by people that do good C&B threads, or if it's a car that I really want to see. Sure, I know the pros are busy and don't have the time, but it's not about quantity, but quality. I'd rather read a great thread from you once a month, rather than some crappy one every other day. One thing I really remember reading more, was when a person had a special situation that they came across, and described what they did to fix it. Those are the threads where people can learn from.



Some threads really are pointless. I've seen a lot of them lately where the subject says "new BMW coated with Opticoat". Who cares? It's a new car that needed little/no correction and you put some sealant on it. We all know that pictures don't do justice to the real thing, so that car doesn't really look any different in the pictures after the Opticoat, than it did before.



Another beef I have is too many/too few pictures. It seems the majority fall into this category. Someone starts out with "I didn't have time to take before shots." OK, the car looks shiny, but I don't know what it looked like before, so it kind of takes the luster out of the whole point of the thread. Or someone does a thread with literally 100 pictures of every part of the car. I don't want to see a picture of every stinking door handle. Show me a few overall shots, and a few key areas that needed extra attention.



But the one that really irritates me the most? Crappy pictures. I swear, half the threads now are taken with cell phones and have bad color and clarity. I can barely tell what color the car is, let alone see the swirls it had, or see how wet the color looks after it's done. I know very few people are going to also be professional photographers here, but take some pride in your photos and buy a reasonable camera instead of a crappy cell phone.



IMO, C&B should always have what you used, as well as what you may have tried that didn't work. Don't post a C&B every day, or even every week. Keep it to ones where you did something different, learned something different, etc. Obviously newbies are going to be excited to post their first real detail (I know I did), but after that, keep it to quality, not quantity. Post up a couple pictures of the car before it's washed, and after. I see a lot of threads where people post how awful it looks before being washed, but then they don't post any of post wash, so you can really see how the paint looked. Then don't go overboard on the process pictures. Post a couple 50/50 shots for the dramatic affect, but that's it unless you've got some special areas you want to highlight like if you did something special, or had a trouble spot to go through. Then finish up with the obligatory sunshine pictures. I hate the threads where the person didn't take any because it was too late/dark. Well what's the point of the thread if you don't have after shots? Isn't that the point of C&B? One other suggestion I really like, try to take the same post detail shots as you took prior to polishing. Especially if you are lucky enough to have similar lighting for both. Those are the pictures that really show the transformation. It's a bit annoying when someone has pictures of the entire car out in the sun prior to detailing, but then after it's done, they take indoor pictures, and don't even show the entire car to see the difference.



Take my thoughts with a grain of salt, but that's how I feel.
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Well put Grimm. I understand what you are saying and agree with most of your comments. I am guilty of "non contribute" status due to the fact that I do not earn a living in the "detailing" world and have nothing of real value to offer. I take care of my stable of vehicles/bikes as a hobby and personal outlet for the satisfaction of preparing my stuff for use, shows and judging myself. I have great respect for the guys that take the time to do EXCEPTIONAL/PROFESSIONAL work AND take the time to share it here for all to see. Sure, there is a certain amount of "ego" and "self promotion" involved - nothing wrong with that. This is how we learn by sharing and discussion. Two things are certain: things will change and we will resist that change. Thank you all!
 
Haha......jumped the shark.......Happy Days!



I just looked back at my C&B's. I got over 25-30 comments on some then it faded. I found that my extreme make over details got the most views. Not the fancy smancy paint corrections.



Seems that most want to see a complete turd turned into a diamond. I must admit, that's what I like to look for on Click and Brags. That and an explanation of what the hell they did. LOL! Not just pics.
 
jimmie jam said:
I do not earn a living in the "detailing" world and have nothing of real value to offer. I take care of my stable of vehicles/bikes as a hobby and personal outlet for the satisfaction of preparing my stuff for use, shows and judging myself. I have great respect for the guys that take the time to do EXCEPTIONAL/PROFESSIONAL work AND take the time to share it here for all to see. Sure, there is a certain amount of "ego" and "self promotion" involved - nothing wrong with that. This is how we learn by sharing and discussion. Two things are certain: things will change and we will resist that change. Thank you all!
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This describes me exactly as well!
 
Nth Degree said:
For those who say they don't have time to do write ups, consider the value to the owner of a car if you provide them a personal write up for their garage queen. For my clients who want full corrections I document each step and take tons of photos. Each client I have done this for has been blown away. Some I see regularly and they tell me how they show it to all their friends to show what the car looked like before, and sometimes reminds them of their own amazement upon seeing their car for the first time after the detail. My forum posts are often just a watered down version of those.
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Indeed! And especially if you're detailing a special interest high end or classic vehicle, thorough documentation of the work done on it helps the owner build pedigree for the car. Judges at a car show or potential bidders at an auction can see the high standard the vehicle was brought to, the level of care that was taken to save the originality of the vehicle, and use it as a "snapshot in time" to determine if what they see in front of them is a vehicle still in that condition, highlighting the owner's commitment to proper maintenance.
 
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