Griot's Garage 6" Polisher: Current state of affairs

[imported_RZJZA80]

So everyone pretty much knows the GG6 is one of the most powerful DA's on the market. I've been a longtime proponent of them, and have used them to create great results. Along the way, a few hiccups have occurred that I took as isolated incidents, but I'm rethinking the quality of the polishers now, and here is why:



Keep in mind that I have two GG6's in my arsenal

-For one, Griot's decided to remove the "Professional" name from their polishers, the reasons why have been debated and their warranty has come into question if they think you are a pro

-I have had many pads and a couple backing plates fail while using the Griot's. One backing plate actually wouldn't come off of the spindle, I personally think it heated up so much that it melted together

-I've noticed that pads and backing plates will heat up and begin to melt in the center, which is where the spindle is



I now thing that the spindle of the GG6 heats up, or over heats, and this was proven as a total of 4 pads melted and BLEW UP this weekend. 3 cyan H20 pads, and one Megs Burgundy cutting pad. All this time, I assumed the H20 pads were just weaker, although better finishing, than other pads, and accepted their quick failures. However, I've never had a problem with any Megs foam pad failing, even through multiple washes and uses.



I didn't think to take pics of the H20 pads, and they were in bits and pieces all over the place, but here is the brand new Megs pad that just separated

And it was very hot over the weekend, but I noticed the head of the GG6 (used three different ones this weekend) got extremely hot, to where there was a concern of burning your hand if touched for too long. I welcome any thoughts on this, and if anyone else has noticed this or not.

 

[shortspark]

I don't have any thoughts on the problem you experienced as I have never used a polisher of any kind but here is my story. I just bought a new Mercedes ML350 in "Diamond White". This is a rather expensive paint option. It is in perfect condition as you can imagine. Nonetheless, as soon as I got it home I washed it, clay and wash again. Then I used Duragloss products as bonding, polish and topper. The car is stunning! I can't imagine it looking any better.



Despite my success, I thought I could "up" my game and performance with an electric polisher. I decided on the Griot 6". I also bought a bunch of pads and backing plates for 5.5" and 6". Having never used a polisher in all the fifty years I've been washing and waxing cars, I decided to experiment on my shower stall just to see what it felt like in my hand. I took the yellow abrasive pad, used my shower cleaner and had at it. It did a great job but I concluded that there was no way in the world I would let this monster near my Mercedes! It was a lot of work and stressful in the shower and it felt heavy besides, so I can imagine what it would be like over a paint like the Diamond White.



I would much rather do it by hand pad as I am familiar and comfortable with that. If I had a dark car or an older one that needed correction or several vehicles to work on it might be different but I don't want to take the chance of messing up that paint or having the problems you experienced. Now it looks like I have a brand new polisher to sell!! In fact, this has me thinking that maybe I ought to start a thread here and at AutoGeek on having people talk me out of doing it by hand and really learning how to use the Griot. Maybe I'm just too scared to change to a new way of doing things but my experience and your experience together really has me concerned.

 

[Paul Sparks]

I also have two of the griots 6" machines (both w/pro labels)and one 3" machine plus a megs g100v2 and a pc 7336. I have never experienced the heat you speak about. A megs bp did separate which was taken care of by megs customer service. When the megs microfiber pads first came out I destroyed a few 3" and 5" cutting pads which IMO was partially my fault. Never have I seen the extreme heat that would destroy pads such as you have in your pictures. Are you using a ton of pressure at speed 6 with a cutting compound when this happens ? A little more info on your technique may be helpful in determining why this is happening.

 

[David Fermani]

Thanks for writing this RZJZA80. Very rarely do I find myself using or needing to use my GG at full speed 6. And looking back, the only times I've drstroyed backing plates or pads is while using my GG at high speeds for longer periods of time. I have NEVER had this happen with my PC XP!! This shows *me* that the best tool isn't the one with the most power potential, but the one with the most useable power that doesn't put my accessories in harms way.



You might want to consider looking at the new 3D/HD polisher. Not quite as much peak power, but speed 5 and 6 are extremely strong and may fair better with pad/plate longevity. Plus, the warranty 3D will be offering will not have any exclusions for Pro use.

 

[imported_RZJZA80]

I also have two of the griots 6" machines (both w/pro labels)and one 3" machine plus a megs g100v2 and a pc 7336. I have never experienced the heat you speak about. A megs bp did separate which was taken care of by megs customer service. When the megs microfiber pads first came out I destroyed a few 3" and 5" cutting pads which IMO was partially my fault. Never have I seen the extreme heat that would destroy pads such as you have in your pictures. Are you using a ton of pressure at speed 6 with a cutting compound when this happens ? A little more info on your technique may be helpful in determining why this is happening.

The Megs pad in the pics was used because the H20 pads were failing rapidly, one after another. Speed 6 with HD UNO on the Megs pad, and very bad/dry paint on an old taurus I was experimenting on. The Megs pads lasted about a quarter of the roof when it flew off. Temps outside that day were about 100, plus whatever the "feels like" actually was.

 

[imported_RZJZA80]

Thanks for writing this RZJZA80. Very rarely do I find myself using or needing to use my GG at full speed 6. And looking back, the only times I've drstroyed backing plates or pads is while using my GG at high speeds for longer periods of time. I have NEVER had this happen with my PC XP!! This shows *me* that the best tool isn't the one with the most power potential, but the one with the most useable power that doesn't put my accessories in harms way.



You might want to consider looking at the new 3D/HD polisher. Not quite as much peak power, but speed 5 and 6 are extremely strong and may fair better with pad/plate longevity. Plus, the warranty 3D will be offering will not have any exclusions for Pro use.

I think I may try one out when more info is released, and if it's good and doesn't over heat, I'll pick up several. Of course I'll posts reviews also. BTW, my PC 7424 never had this problem either, but I think it's more because of the lower power output or is it something else? I mean, both spindles are metal, so both would heat up I would think.

 

[pwaug]

shortspark--I know how you feel--after 50 years of detailing by hand I too had a hesitance after finally making the jump to a GG6. However, what I did is first used the GG DA with a Red pad to apply a coat of DG105 to my wife's car and then with another Red pad applied a coat of POXY to my car. It really gave me a sense of how the machine behaves and how to handle it.



Since then I have applied a coat of HD Speed to my Passat's hard paint--6 passes at speed 6 with firm pressure and 2 passes with light pressure using a B&S Orange pad--next morning applied a coat of POXY with the Red pad. The car looks stunning and it was allot easier on my wrists and arms. I'll never go back to detailing by hand. I'd say give it a try before you make up your mind. You could even go to a junk yard (er Auto Savage) yard and by a hood to practice on.



On a side note regarding the heat build up--When I did my Passat as mentioned above I used two sets of two pads--after each couple of sections I'd clean the pad then replace it with another--switching back and forth between the two for half the car and the same with the second set of two for the other half. NO heat build up problems what so ever.

 

[Dan]

It does seem like some of the GG6's have had quality issues, especially with constant (pro) use, there is no denying that. However the pad issue is easily resolved. Turn the machine down if you have issues. I love speed six, mine lives there. I notice my pads get really hot if I use lots of pressure, so I don't, I let the machine do the work. Also, Megs pads, especially the Maroons have some of the crappiest glue on the face of the earth. There have been countless threads on them failing even on older PCs.

 

[Thomas Dekany]

People want more and more power and this is what happens. The only time I use speed 6 is when cutting - and that is always with the black wool pads we sell.



Trust me, I have melted many more pads (both foam and MF) than I care to remember.



Either switch to wool to cut, or keep the speed at 5.



As far as the 3D polisher is concerned, I used my rotary on a car for the last few days correcting, because I didn't get the cut with the GG pc and wool. Yesterday I said let me just see.



1 - I am able to finish considerably faster



2 - the GG pc is now used only to apply wax.



There really is a difference between PCs. You still can't use speed 6 for too long with foam though. After about 3 panels the HD yellow pad needed a bit of rest. I continued using it, but on speed 5 and I was still able to clean up with after the wool.



Another thing, the GG left little pigtails behind where the 3D machine didn't. That alone can make or break a detail.

 

[imported_RZJZA80]

People want more and more power and this is what happens. The only time I use speed 6 is when cutting - and that is always with the black wool pads we sell.



Trust me, I have melted many more pads (both foam and MF) than I care to remember.



Either switch to wool to cut, or keep the speed at 5.



As far as the 3D polisher is concerned, I used my rotary on a car for the last few days correcting, because I didn't get the cut with the GG pc and wool. Yesterday I said let me just see.



1 - I am able to finish considerably faster



2 - the GG pc is now used only to apply wax.



There really is a difference between PCs. You still can't use speed 6 for too long with foam though. After about 3 panels the HD yellow pad needed a bit of rest. I continued using it, but on speed 5 and I was still able to clean up with after the wool.



Another thing, the GG left little pigtails behind where the 3D machine didn't. That alone can make or break a detail.

I'm not sure I follow, the pigtails are left by the pad I thought, how does the polisher itself lend to this? Is the actual movement of both polishers/DA's not the same?

 

[David Fermani]

I've created pigtales from using too soft of a pad for finishing. Mainly black LC thin/flat. They weren't created by the pad, but the plate transfer through the pad. Stepped up to a firmer pad and perfect. Just goes to show you all paint is different.

 

[Thomas Dekany]

It is not the pad, it is the polisher - DA type of machines leave pigtails behind.



If the pad did it, you would see pigtails with rotaries. That just doesn't happen.

I'm not sure I follow, the pigtails are left by the pad I thought, how does the polisher itself lend to this? Is the actual movement of both polishers/DA's not the same?

 

[imported_RZJZA80]

Ok I get that only DA's leave pigtails, but what exactly is causing them? I always thought that trash in the pad is what actually create the pigtail, since the DA moves in a pigtail type motion. Any way of avoiding this?

 

[Thomas Dekany]

The good news is that you only see that pigtail issue on flat paints. In the past when I tried 205 it worked until I did an IPA wipe.



How to avoid it? I use a rotary, but now at least on this red paint job, the 3D polisher finishes perfect. The GG left pigtails, no matter what pads I used.



Or follow David's recommendation. See if that works on the paint you are working on.



Always good to remember that every paint will react differently.

 

[David Fermani]

Ok I get that only DA's leave pigtails, but what exactly is causing them? I always thought that trash in the pad is what actually create the pigtail, since the DA moves in a pigtail type motion. Any way of avoiding this?

Check out my response as it touches on this. In some situations, with some paint, with some final finishing pads, the twisting motion of the backing plate transfers through the pad and onto the surface. Especially with stronger machines under higher speeds. The only way to avoid this in all situations would be to carefully cleaning and inspecting your pads prior to using them(debris), make sure to do a test spot, strip the surface and inspect in under good lighting and stepping up to a firmer pad if it happens. DA's are much different then rotaries with respect to needing a super soft finishing pad for proper finishing.

 

[imported_Erik Mejia1]

So everyone pretty much knows the GG6 is one of the most powerful DA's on the market. I've been a longtime proponent of them, and have used them to create great results. Along the way, a few hiccups have occurred that I took as isolated incidents, but I'm rethinking the quality of the polishers now, and here is why:



Keep in mind that I have two GG6's in my arsenal

-For one, Griot's decided to remove the "Professional" name from their polishers, the reasons why have been debated and their warranty has come into question if they think you are a pro

-I have had many pads and a couple backing plates fail while using the Griot's. One backing plate actually wouldn't come off of the spindle, I personally think it heated up so much that it melted together

-I've noticed that pads and backing plates will heat up and begin to melt in the center, which is where the spindle is



I now thing that the spindle of the GG6 heats up, or over heats, and this was proven as a total of 4 pads melted and BLEW UP this weekend. 3 cyan H20 pads, and one Megs Burgundy cutting pad. All this time, I assumed the H20 pads were just weaker, although better finishing, than other pads, and accepted their quick failures. However, I've never had a problem with any Megs foam pad failing, even through multiple washes and uses.



I didn't think to take pics of the H20 pads, and they were in bits and pieces all over the place, but here is the brand new Megs pad that just separated

And it was very hot over the weekend, but I noticed the head of the GG6 (used three different ones this weekend) got extremely hot, to where there was a concern of burning your hand if touched for too long. I welcome any thoughts on this, and if anyone else has noticed this or not.

Speed 6 on the GG is excessive (if that is what you are using.) Turn the dial, and OPM's back down to setting 4-5, and slow your arm speed down during your sectional pass. All you need is good technique, and try changing pads more frequently. If you're still getting heat issues, change the backing plate in between details as well.



A DA tends to build up the heat upwards into the pad and backing plate. Good luck.

 

[imported_RZJZA80]

I will counter with this: Why do DA's even have a speed 6 then? Why even offer that high of OPM's? I did turn down the dial to 5 and finished up, but I don't understand why it even has a speed 6 if you aren't really supposed to use it. I know nobody will really have an answer to this, but that bugs me, It's like my car CAN go above 60 mph, but if I do, it over heats. Well, that's bad engineering IMO.



Either the GG6 doesn't dissipate heat fast enough, or the backing plate material (both LC and Megs) absorbs too much heat, or a combination of both.



Here's a question for the experts: Will the backing plate with cooling holes in it that Kevin Brown sells solve this problem?

 

[Thomas Dekany]

I will repeat: with wool speed 6 is fine.



Another thing - speed 6 on the 3" pad with the wholes in them and MF pads work fine.

I will counter with this: Why do DA's even have a speed 6 then? Why even offer that high of OPM's? I did turn down the dial to 5 and finished up, but I don't understand why it even has a speed 6 if you aren't really supposed to use it. I know nobody will really have an answer to this, but that bugs me, It's like my car CAN go above 60 mph, but if I do, it over heats. Well, that's bad engineering IMO.



Either the GG6 doesn't dissipate heat fast enough, or the backing plate material (both LC and Megs) absorbs too much heat, or a combination of both.



Here's a question for the experts: Will the backing plate with cooling holes in it that Kevin Brown sells solve this problem?

 

[David Fermani]

I am definatley not saying NOT to use the GG @ speed 6. I have, do and will continue doing so when needed. You should always be experimenting with different speeds, pressure and buffing cycles in order to find what works for you. I've had sessions where I needed that extra power, but I usually avoid doing so if and when possible for many reasons (heat mainly).

 

[Dan]

I will counter with this: Why do DA's even have a speed 6 then? Why even offer that high of OPM's? I did turn down the dial to 5 and finished up, but I don't understand why it even has a speed 6 if you aren't really supposed to use it. I know nobody will really have an answer to this, but that bugs me, It's like my car CAN go above 60 mph, but if I do, it over heats. Well, that's bad engineering IMO.



Either the GG6 doesn't dissipate heat fast enough, or the backing plate material (both LC and Megs) absorbs too much heat, or a combination of both.



Here's a question for the experts: Will the backing plate with cooling holes in it that Kevin Brown sells solve this problem?

Your car can go above sixty, and if you try to go around a icy curve at 60mph, what happens? Does that need to be resolved too? Are you having a rough time with everything? It seems like all your recent posts are complaining about something. Might just be a run of bad luck....