GM Quality Control

[imported_chpsk8]

Little correction-



The Accord(mid size global platform) spawns:



TL

RL

Odyssey

Ridgeline

MDX

Pilot



Pretty much all the manufacturers are doing it. The problem is in *how* they do it.

...or how obviously they do it. Sharing the Accord platform with vehicles that dont' resemble the donor platform is a key factor here. GM just mildly reshapes a product, then slaps new badging on it and calls it "new and different". Honda just uses the raw platform of chassis sometimes suspension to create unrelated products. That is smart AND creative engineering.

 

[SpoiledMan]

...or how obviously they do it. Sharing the Accord platform with vehicles that dont' resemble the donor platform is a key factor here. GM just mildly reshapes a product, then slaps new badging on it and calls it "new and different". Honda just uses the raw platform of chassis sometimes suspension to create unrelated products. That is smart AND creative engineering.

My point exactly. You will not mistake a TL for an Accord.

 

[imported_Aurora40]

My point exactly. You will not mistake a TL for an Accord.

But you often mistake a Bonneville for a LeSabre, or a Park Avenue for a Deville, or an XLR with a Corvette... Just apply the arguments you all have made for the imports to GM. Drive the cars, and see if they are the same just with different badges. In some cases they are pretty similar and look similar, as does an ES and Camry. In some cases you'd be surprised they are the same car. Apparently owners of Hondas and Toyotas can say "I own one, they are different" and that's good enough, in spite of the obvious similarities in exterior styling, interior layout, etc. But I guess a GM owner who says the same thing must be delusional...



Don't worry, though, you all aren't the only ones with the double-standard. I see it all the time in the auto rags too.

 

[jnmttu]

Little correction-



The Accord(mid size global platform) spawns:



TL

RL

Odyssey

Ridgeline

MDX

Pilot

I stand corrected. For some reason I let my mind lapse on my day off and completly forgot about all those trucks and vans. I guess I still remember the days when buying a Honda meant you could pick a Civic, an Accord, or a Prelude. Well, please forgive my misstep.

 

[SpoiledMan]

But you often mistake a Bonneville for a LeSabre, or a Park Avenue for a Deville, or an XLR with a Corvette... Just apply the arguments you all have made for the imports to GM. Drive the cars, and see if they are the same just with different badges. In some cases they are pretty similar and look similar, as does an ES and Camry. In some cases you'd be surprised they are the same car. Apparently owners of Hondas and Toyotas can say "I own one, they are different" and that's good enough, in spite of the obvious similarities in exterior styling, interior layout, etc. But I guess a GM owner who says the same thing must be delusional...



Don't worry, though, you all aren't the only ones with the double-standard. I see it all the time in the auto rags too.

Looks like the buying public agrees too. If it wasn't for fleet(rental cars) GM would be in deeper than they are now.

 

[SpoiledMan]

I stand corrected. For some reason I let my mind lapse on my day off and completly forgot about all those trucks and vans. I guess I still remember the days when buying a Honda meant you could pick a Civic, an Accord, or a Prelude. Well, please forgive my misstep.

Seems like it wasn't all that long ago.



I'm looking to buy a super Accord(TL) in the next year. Maybe I shouldn't though and just keep my Odyssey as you can't *really* tell the difference anyway. Right?

 

[theeloved1]

I spent a month in Belvidere where they mad the Dodge and Plymough Neon. I saw countless errors similar to this. Cars with Plymouth badges and Dodge steering wheels, or Plymouth on one side fo the car and Dodge on the other.

I've seen assembly people walk down the line and throw parts on a vehicle without the proper jigs just to get a few cars ahead and be able to go to break earlier.

Funny you should say that, as I'm the thread starter and I just so happen to live in Belvidere :LOLOL I personally know many of the assembly people that I'm sure were the ones messing up









Just about every car is based off the platform of another car and all that...Just about every sedan on the road looks the same nowadays.



the difference with GM is that the vehicles aren't just based off the same platform, they are like 98% identical. I say this as a Chevy Tahoe owner...they are the exact same vehicle as a Yukon....trim packages aside. They get chrome trim, I had to debadge my ugly black trim....they get single piece headlights, mine is a split assembly...etc. They aren't just "based" off each other, they are identical. Just like these Silverados/Sierras, and just about everything else GM makes.



BTW...GTO's look like Grand PRIXs, not Grand AMs....cuz I own a Grand Prix as well..haha

 

[imported_chpsk8]

Funny you should say that, as I'm the thread starter and I just so happen to live in Belvidere :LOLOL I personally know many of the assembly people that I'm sure were the ones messing up

The one that floored my was the chick sleeping in the passenger seat as the car was going down the line. Eventually a mobile worker checking ECUs woke her up... she proceeded to walk back another dozen cars or so and hop into the passenger seat and continue her nap! So if you ever see drool on a new car seat and wonder where it came from... I know where!!! :woot2:

 

[theeloved1]

Yeah, I know about a dozen people that work at the Chrysler plant here in Belvidere (I say here, as I was born and raised in Belvidere, but now live about 2 miles across the city line into Rockford). I've never really had discussions about work or anything like that. I took a tour through the factory like 15 years ago when I was 10 or so.



I'm going to a Christmas party tonight where I'll be seeing one of the workers there. I'll have to ask her if she regularly naps in teh passenger seats...although, she's been laid off for like 2 years since they closed down 2nd shift. She fires back up full steam after the 1st of the year.

 

[imported_chpsk8]

Yeah, I know about a dozen people that work at the Chrysler plant here in Belvidere (I say here, as I was born and raised in Belvidere, but now live about 2 miles across the city line into Rockford). I've never really had discussions about work or anything like that. I took a tour through the factory like 15 years ago when I was 10 or so.



I'm going to a Christmas party tonight where I'll be seeing one of the workers there. I'll have to ask her if she regularly naps in teh passenger seats...although, she's been laid off for like 2 years since they closed down 2nd shift. She fires back up full steam after the 1st of the year.

Any idea what they are building there next year? My travels don't take me there anymore, so I don't talk to those folks too much. I spend a lot more time with Honda and Nissan now. Gotta learn to speak in a drawl when you talk to those folks!

 

[Tasty]

Wow, this thread has gotten really good. I like the debate. The only reason you can't fit an '05 Accord taillight on an '06 Accord is because of the HORRIBLE redesign they did on the rear end. They thought going to LEDs would make it better. Wrong. It just plain sucks.



Aurora - You are right the Camry and the ES are IDENTICAL in MY eyes, and NO WAY would I pay the price difference for an ES. That is pathetic design. However, American auto has way more ground to make up than foreign auto is giving up. GM is pretty much doing nothing right right now, and I think all you have to do to prove that is look at what they've done with SAAB since taking it over. Rebadging the Trailblazer as SAAB was a HORRIBLE idea.



GM is sucking major wind for a reason. I just hope they can fix it. Bring back the Camaro in a major way in 2007, and kill underperforming brands and models.

 

[theeloved1]

Any idea what they are building there next year? My travels don't take me there anymore, so I don't talk to those folks too much. I spend a lot more time with Honda and Nissan now. Gotta learn to speak in a drawl when you talk to those folks!

I've heard a few rumors and I'm not sure which is completely true. Best I can tell, its going to be that new Jeep...Commander or Commanche or something like that. Out along the I-90 side of the building where they used to have a couple Neons parked on concrete slabs...now there's just some decorative boxes stacked with " ? " on em...like its some big secret.



Talked to my friend tonight. She wasn't the one taking naps in the passenger seat :grinno: but she did know the story of it. "She's not the only one" she says. I believe it to...Neons are good for putting anyone to sleep.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Guys, calm down a little! GM's problems are a little more complicated than just that they rebadge some models, which everybody does. Ever see a Rolls-Royce and....ohh...it's a Bentley. No one can afford to do the amount of engineering required for a modern car and not share the technology across different models/brands.

 

[SpoiledMan]

Yeah, the Accord isn't in a state of being help able at this point. My opinion is that they needed to fix BOTH ends of the car. However, the debate wasn't being able to take the lights from one year car to another but from one "make" to another as was done with the original posted truck.



Tasty, I'm no fan of the ES's looks but it's head and shoulder above the Camry. It doesn't share many parts(maybe even none) that we can *see* but I know that they share many parts that we don't. Ford/Lincoln/Mercury is pumping the same car with different lights BUT it seems to be working as the sells numbers are reported to be better than what they expected.



Anyone that thinks GM doesn't need to change and that what they're currently selling doesn't need some serious attention is OK with the company failing. The current line of products isn't going to keep them afloat no matter how much they discount the prices.

 

[Tasty]

We all know it happens, but GM is definitely one of the worst at it. Like I said, compare the Trailblazer to the SAAB 9-7X. That just sucks. Not even worth defending.

 

[SpoiledMan]

Guys, calm down a little! GM's problems are a little more complicated than just that they rebadge some models, which everybody does. Ever see a Rolls-Royce and....ohh...it's a Bentley. No one can afford to do the amount of engineering required for a modern car and not share the technology across different models/brands.

I know what you mean but RR(BMW) and Bentley(VW) are now owned by different parent company's. There's really nothing wrong with platform sharing but they need to do a better job of it.

 

[SpoiledMan]

We all know it happens, but GM is definitely one of the worst at it. Like I said, compare the Trailblazer to the SAAB 9-7X. That just sucks. Not even worth defending.

Very poor attempt at giving Saab a SUV. Well, just think Aztek. Who approved that thing?

 

[Tasty]

Yeah, the Accord isn't in a state of being help able at this point. My opinion is that they needed to fix BOTH ends of the car. However, the debate wasn't being able to take the lights from one year car to another but from one "make" to another as was done with the original posted truck.



Tasty, I'm no fan of the ES's looks but it's head and shoulder above the Camry. It doesn't share many parts(maybe even none) that we can *see* but I know that they share many parts that we don't. Ford/Lincoln/Mercury is pumping the same car with different lights BUT it seems to be working as the sells numbers are reported to be better than what they expected.



Anyone that thinks GM doesn't need to change and that what they're currently selling doesn't need some serious attention is OK with the company failing. The current line of products isn't going to keep them afloat no matter how much they discount the prices.

Someone stated "try to change the lights from an '05 Accord to an '06", I'm just saying that's why you can't. The lame redesign.



I know the Camry and ES probably don't share many parts, but the looks are SO similar who cares. If I see a Toyota that looks that much like a Lexus, I'm gonna buy the Toyota. Same with the SAAB and Chevy crap. Sometimes the sharing of technology and design just makes the higher end vehicle look like a POS.



As for people who buy Ford/Lincoln/Mercury, well...

 

[Tasty]

There's really nothing wrong with platform sharing but they need to do a better job of it.

EXACTLY! The sheet metal needs to be SIGNIFICANTLY different. If I'm paying 10-15K more for a Lexus, I don't want it to look like a damn Camry.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I know what you mean but RR(BMW) and Bentley(VW) are now owned by different parent company's. There's really nothing wrong with platform sharing but they need to do a better job of it.

Sorry, I am aware that the companies have been sold, I had an "older" in there, but it got lost in the editing .

Very poor attempt at giving Saab a SUV. Well, just think Aztek. Who approved that thing?

The Aztec? Or as I call it, The Rhinoceros? I have a Pontiac, and it embarrasses me to see one of those. It does kind of defy logic that someone actually approved that for production.