imported_memnuts
New member
When I stated 5 sections I was indicating the the top red section has 2 circular forms. Does GM make this type of tail? Never looked very closely at the new GM trucks.
GM Quality Control
- Thread starter theeloved1
- Start date
imported_truzoom
New member
That may just be the way the light is hitting it, as I think that upper portion is a single circular reflector.
theeloved1
New member
2000firebird said:whys this such a big deal
not like every single car had it
not a big deal as far as I'm concerned...just posted it because my buddy sent it to me this morning.
I'm sure its one of those things that happens way more than anyone knows/expects, its just not often that someone has a cameraphone handy and cares to take a picture.
It was posted, half in a joking manner, because of all the bankrupt talk.
SpoiledMan
New member
2000firebird said:whys this such a big deal
not like every single car had it
Because it shouldn't happen AT ALL. There's too much product redundancy going on as has been mentioned already. They need to shed some of the divisions to keep alive.
Took me a second, but once I found it I just had to say "wow". I grew up on GM (namely Chevy and Olds), and their current state is just sad. I have to say though that they should have figured out by now how to keep up with companies like Honda and Toyota. If a line or brand isn't selling, they're to the point where they need to kill it completely. I think all Saturns are so horrid they can kill that one right now.
Intercooled
New member
I'm with you. Time to cut the Fat!!! Too many similar models & crosss breeds. The new Chevy HHR which is a neat idea is jsut an idea that already happened with the Chrysler PT Cruiser. GM is just too late, where were they 5 years ago!! If you ask me, all they have that is innovative is the Corvette and new Cadillac models. They better get thier act together soon and rethink the Camaro! Ford and Dodge is killing them. The GTO was a great idea! Bt why does it look lke every other Grand AM. :nomore:
WSUcommuter
New member
Because the new GTO is nothing more than a beefed up Holden Monaro from down 'undah. Again GM looked at what they already had, altered it slightly, and slapped new badges on it.
SpoiledMan
New member
WSUcommuter said:
Shows that a company is a state of financial concern. If they had actually put something into the GTO they wouldn't be able to make enough of them. Look at the Charger, that thing's a joke(4 doors???) and they're flying off the lots.
EBPcivicsi
GOT PREP?
Anyone read the article in Playboy this month about GM and the car industry? Great read IMO.
imported_memnuts
New member
Intercooled said:
Because foreign competition seems to get away with copying designs and still sell very well. Gawd it is also impossible to distinquish a Honda, Mazda, Hyundai and Toyota models without reading the badging.
imported_Aurora40
New member
That's pretty funny about those taillights, but I wouldn't read too much into it. If you think that this has never happened with a foreign car being delivered with improper assembly, you are deluding yourself.
How does that explain why it looks like a Grand Am?? Is the Grand Am also based on an Australian vehicle? Or does slapping a badge on a car completely change its appearance in your eyes? They are two totally different vehicles. So it seems either they did nothing to it other than badge it as you say, which explains nothing about why it looks like a Grand Am, or they changed the styling to look like a Grand Am, which means they actually did something to it. Which is it?
I'm not sure why bringing a car they already had here is a bad thing, though. The Monero is a nice car and sells for far more money in Australia. There is no new car you can buy that matches the bang-for-the-buck of the GTO.
I also think it's funny how people will criticize a company they don't like, but use a criticizm that can be applied to just about any company. GM just badges things, ehh? What does Toyota do? How different is an ES330 from a Camry? How many different vehicles are built on the Corolla platform? Have you ever seen a VW parked next to an Audi? Notice anything similar about them? Why did Honda bring the TSX here, it's just a rebadged euro car. They must be financially hurting, right? Otherwise they'd create an entirely new platform for every car they make. After all, that's the smart way to make a car, right?
Because the new GTO is nothing more than a beefed up Holden Monaro from down 'undah. Again GM looked at what they already had, altered it slightly, and slapped new badges on it.[/QUOTE]WSUcommuter said:
How does that explain why it looks like a Grand Am?? Is the Grand Am also based on an Australian vehicle? Or does slapping a badge on a car completely change its appearance in your eyes? They are two totally different vehicles. So it seems either they did nothing to it other than badge it as you say, which explains nothing about why it looks like a Grand Am, or they changed the styling to look like a Grand Am, which means they actually did something to it. Which is it?
I'm not sure why bringing a car they already had here is a bad thing, though. The Monero is a nice car and sells for far more money in Australia. There is no new car you can buy that matches the bang-for-the-buck of the GTO.
I also think it's funny how people will criticize a company they don't like, but use a criticizm that can be applied to just about any company. GM just badges things, ehh? What does Toyota do? How different is an ES330 from a Camry? How many different vehicles are built on the Corolla platform? Have you ever seen a VW parked next to an Audi? Notice anything similar about them? Why did Honda bring the TSX here, it's just a rebadged euro car. They must be financially hurting, right? Otherwise they'd create an entirely new platform for every car they make. After all, that's the smart way to make a car, right?
SpoiledMan
New member
The GTO still has the dash "geared" towards the old drivers(passengers) position. The radio knobs aren't the "USA" ergo either. But you know what, you're right. They don't have to change as the direction their headed in now is just fine.
Yeah, the importers can send us the cars that they don't sell here with a different badge. The difference is we actually WANT them to. The difference between a Camry and an ES is HUGE to say the least. Driven them both?
Yeah, the importers can send us the cars that they don't sell here with a different badge. The difference is we actually WANT them to. The difference between a Camry and an ES is HUGE to say the least. Driven them both?
imported_chpsk8
New member
That kind of thing happens more than we care to believe. This one is funny as heck and I hope it makes it's way to a rag like Car and Driver.
I've been in many assembly plants and it would be very simple for something like this to happen. All the operator does is blip the bar code on the side fo the truck and it tells him what to put on. Obviously the guy on the drivers side either didnt' blip the bar code, or just pulled the wrong light.
I spent a month in Belvidere where they mad the Dodge and Plymough Neon. I saw countless errors similar to this. Cars with Plymouth badges and Dodge steering wheels, or Plymouth on one side fo the car and Dodge on the other.
I've seen assembly people walk down the line and throw parts on a vehicle without the proper jigs just to get a few cars ahead and be able to go to break earlier.
As far as quality control goes, no factory 100% inspects the product as it leaves. They pull a sample of the current run, generally every 10th car. (An average factory is pushing about 55 cars an hour out the door just to give you an idea what kind of volume that is). They are pulled into seperate quality areas and inspected for defects. If they find a defect they look at the manufacturing process first, then the supplier. As a supplier I've spent many hours standing in front of a group explaining how the assembly person is the one that put the part on crooked, and it's not a supplier problem. (most times) That doesnt' go over well, so we end up making some process change that is meaningless to make them happy.
I still get a laugh out of that picture, and I've been looknig at it for two days now!
I've been in many assembly plants and it would be very simple for something like this to happen. All the operator does is blip the bar code on the side fo the truck and it tells him what to put on. Obviously the guy on the drivers side either didnt' blip the bar code, or just pulled the wrong light.
I spent a month in Belvidere where they mad the Dodge and Plymough Neon. I saw countless errors similar to this. Cars with Plymouth badges and Dodge steering wheels, or Plymouth on one side fo the car and Dodge on the other.
I've seen assembly people walk down the line and throw parts on a vehicle without the proper jigs just to get a few cars ahead and be able to go to break earlier.
As far as quality control goes, no factory 100% inspects the product as it leaves. They pull a sample of the current run, generally every 10th car. (An average factory is pushing about 55 cars an hour out the door just to give you an idea what kind of volume that is). They are pulled into seperate quality areas and inspected for defects. If they find a defect they look at the manufacturing process first, then the supplier. As a supplier I've spent many hours standing in front of a group explaining how the assembly person is the one that put the part on crooked, and it's not a supplier problem. (most times) That doesnt' go over well, so we end up making some process change that is meaningless to make them happy.
I still get a laugh out of that picture, and I've been looknig at it for two days now!
imported_Aurora40
New member
SpoiledMan said:
Define "HUGE"? How many parts do they share? And taken in the context of this thread, you feel the difference between the ES and Camry is bigger than the diff between the Grand Am and GTO?
Ever driven a LeSabre and a Bonneville? Think they feel the same? And they don't even look the same. Think the same can be said of the ES and Camry?
SpoiledMan
New member
No, their not as different as the Grand Am and GTO but they aren't as similar as you'd like to think either. The level of equipment, the ride, the electronics, the quality of the materials used are just some of the things that don't come from the same "parts bin" like you find in so many of the GM cars. I have seen GTO's new on the lot with enough money on their noses to buy another small car. Try that with a TSX(Euro Accord).
As someone who owns an Accord and a car based off that same Accord, I can honestly say that it is possible to build a car off of a common platform and have it feel entirely different. My Acura and my wife's Accord are world's apart in several areas. The difference between Honda and GM is that Honda is only spreading that platfrom between the TL, the Accord and partially the Euro Accord/TSX, which by the way, fells completely different than the other two.
GM will typically spread a platform over 4 or more cars. This begins to limit each car based on what the platform must be in order to conform to a common goal. VW/Audi used to have this same problem. They have started to move away from this. Jettas/Golfs/Passats/A4s/A6s were all a little bit too much the same for the price spread they had on them.
One of GM's other problems, and they have done it for years, and it caused this very problem, is that they will typically change lights and wheels to update a body style while leaving sheetmetal alone. Honda/Toyota, Ford, and whoever else use this spuce-up tactic as well, but they usually also tweak the body panels enough that this kind of thing couldn't happen. I used to like some of the GM stuff, but they have cut corners to the point that I won't touch it.
In conclusion, try to fit an '05 Accord taillight on an '06, an ES330 tailiight on a Camry, or an Accord taillight on a TL. Guess what, none of them fit.
GM will typically spread a platform over 4 or more cars. This begins to limit each car based on what the platform must be in order to conform to a common goal. VW/Audi used to have this same problem. They have started to move away from this. Jettas/Golfs/Passats/A4s/A6s were all a little bit too much the same for the price spread they had on them.
One of GM's other problems, and they have done it for years, and it caused this very problem, is that they will typically change lights and wheels to update a body style while leaving sheetmetal alone. Honda/Toyota, Ford, and whoever else use this spuce-up tactic as well, but they usually also tweak the body panels enough that this kind of thing couldn't happen. I used to like some of the GM stuff, but they have cut corners to the point that I won't touch it.
In conclusion, try to fit an '05 Accord taillight on an '06, an ES330 tailiight on a Camry, or an Accord taillight on a TL. Guess what, none of them fit.
imported_chpsk8
New member
Aurora40 said:Define "HUGE"? How many parts do they share? And taken in the context of this thread, you feel the difference between the ES and Camry is bigger than the diff between the Grand Am and GTO?
Ever driven a LeSabre and a Bonneville? Think they feel the same? And they don't even look the same. Think the same can be said of the ES and Camry?
Correct, the ES is based on the Camry platform, and incorporates similar parts. Having driven both besides the obvious trim levels, the one difference I could see was in increase in sound dampening and a softer suspension in the ES.
The Lexus LS platform is based off the Toyota Celsior.
The Lexus GS is based off the Toyota Aristo.
Toyota has never tried to hide that fact that they are a huge part of Lexus.
Remember GM swearing up and down they had nothing to do with Saturn? Now that was a ruse!
Wiki Lexus Info
SpoiledMan
New member
jnmttu said:
Little correction-
The Accord(mid size global platform) spawns:
TL
RL
Odyssey
Ridgeline
MDX
Pilot
Pretty much all the manufacturers are doing it. The problem is in *how* they do it.