GEPC, SEPC and IHG, compatability with Zaino

H

Hawkeye_TDI

New member
Many people have recommended GEPC and SEPC prior to Zaino for added depth. Is IHG compatable too, and will I achieve similar results with it?

Thanks

Bruce

:bow :bow :bow :bow
 
There's a slight misunderstanding here. None of these polishes are "compatible" with Zaino. They all leave residual oils that must be washed off prior to using Z.



IHG, being a glaze, is primarily fillers and oils. There is no point in using IHG prior to Zaino because you will have to wash the vehicle prior to the Zaino application and this will remove all the oils and fillers you just applied with the IHG. A total waste of time and effort.



The P21S/S100 polishes have a light polishing action that enhances the paint finish. Yeah, you have to wash prior to Zaino with these two as well but at least you are benefiting from the product's polishing ability. There are no such benefits with IHG.
 
Thanks bret,

So to clarify, P21S PCL would help to fill some minor swirls as well as enhance the gloss. I would have to do a Z7 prior to Zaino.

Z7 would not negate the affects of P21S PCL

Do I got it man? Hope so cuz I be pretty thick sometimes.



I had a detailer do my car a few times. This is what he did.

Dawn wash

Clay

3M PI III RUBBING COMPUOND

Z7 wash

3M SMR

PI HAND GLAZE

Z1

Z2

The end result was very good, absoulutley flawless prep and thus a brilliant shine.



I looked up PI HG on the 3m site and found that IHG and PI HG were comparable.

This is why I asked the question.



I recently did my own total detail as follows:



dawnwash

clay

smr

Z1, Z2 and subsequently three additional coats of Z2

Last week I topped with Souvern wax to see it brought out any depth to the shine ( my car is Carbon black, very, very deep midnight blue metalic). It did not make any noticable difference. In reading other posts I go the feeling PCL might help, and thought IHG may do the same.



I'll try PCL next overhaul.



Thanks again!

Bruce
 
If I were going to use Zaino again on a black car I would pre-treat (glaze) the finish with P21S Gloss Enhancing Cleansing Polish (GEPC). Great stuff and would really help Zaino is creating some depth with black. To wash or not to wash prior to Zaino application. I personally would just apply on top of GEPC.



This is a quote from BLKZ28.
 
I'm sort of wondering about this question as well. I'm beginning to gradually hear more about people applying sealants directly over top of real glazes or glaze-like products like SEPC/GEPC without washing them off first.



I know this definitely bucks the existing accepted wisdom that glazes shouldn't go beneath sealants without pre-cleaning, but who knows where this is headed?



Someone has also said that while it may "work", who knows if the sealant's bonding or durability is compromised or not?



Watching with interest.... :)
 
I would definately say the sealant would have more trouble bonding...but that doesn't mean that it isn't bonding some. I would probably go out on a limb and say it will bond some, which means reduced durability and/or less protection. I really don't know though, these are just food for thought. Terry at CMA says not to use Blackfire over Carnuba, but you can use it over a glaze. I wonder how much different Blackfire is from Zaino and what polymers make Zaino incompatible with glazes. Very interesting thread.:xyxthumbs
 
bretfraz said:


IHG, being a glaze, is primarily fillers and oils. There is no point in using IHG prior to Zaino because you will have to wash the vehicle prior to the Zaino application and this will remove all the oils and fillers you just applied with the IHG. A total waste of time and effort.
Click to expand...



Bret,

SMR is a glaze too is it not? If true, do you recommend washing after SMR and before Z1? Would it not stand to reason the a glaze is a glaze is a glaze? Too, if this is true SMR would not be good for Zaino.

I'm curiously confused



:confused: :confused:
 
Bruce,



SMR is in-fact a glaze of sorts. It probably doesn't contain as many oils as a "Hand Glaze" would have, as that would probably interfere with the cutting action of the SMR.



I would hypothesize that using anything under a sealant will comprimise the cross-linking of the polymer to the clear. To what level though is the million dollar question.



Most sealant are developed to last greater than 3 months, so perhaps applying a glaze will minimize the protection to under 3 months. However, as most Autopians are layering the product weekly/monthly, the longevity of of the protection is probably not as much of a concern.



Until someone completes a head to head test on half a vehicle, we probably will not know definitively. As that may take up to 2 to 3 months to find out the true result, it won't be until the Summer until we know any further with comparative data.



I'll probably be doing the test this Summer to see the durability difference and to also assess the visual difference as well.



1/3rd - Hand Polish / Meguiars 26 HiTech carnuba Wax

1/3rd - GEPC / Zaino

1/3rd - Zaino



No layering or reapplication of the products for 3 months! Start date: May 2003.



On another car, I'd like to try out a



1/3 - Zaino

1/3 - Klasse

1/3 - BlackFire



Test and see the durability and visual differences after 1, 2 and 3 months without further applications.



Can't wait for the weather to warm up ... it's freakin cold up here today.
 
paco I would be VERY interested in that test. PLEASE PLEASE do it and post the results. It would definately be an asset to this board! Thanks :xyxthumbs :bow
 
I too will do a similar test.

1/2 ihg and Z2

1/2 z2 only.

I'll start it next weekend



I'll smr the entire car (z3) steel gray, first

I'll post results and pics

Bruce
 
Lucky for me I live in a city with only two seasons.... Warm & Slightly Cold, so I was able to get a start on this right away.



Over the weekend, I removed the P21S Carnauba that was remaining on my wife's black car and fully prepped the car to be Zaino'd (polish followed Z-7 wash).



On the passenger side of the hood, I applied another coat of polish (P21S GEPC) right before applying a coat of ZFX/Z-5.



So basically, the only thing I'm testing for is how using an oily polish right before using Zaino affects durability. Paco & Bruce, I'd be really interested in hearing how your tests go. I'm really hoping durability is unaffected because P21S GEPC seems to be the perfect prep for Zaino as the smooth slick surface it leaves made Zaino spread really easily.
 
I will give results Sunday, at least preliminary with IHG.

I look forward to Intermezzo's and Pacos as well.

Happy detailing.

Bruce
 
If I were to use the 3M SMR via PC first, would doing the GEPC make any difference afterwards?



Also, if GEPC is recommended after SMR, which of the following do you guys recommend?



1) SMR - (dawn) - GEPC - (dawn) - Zaino



2) SMR - (dawn) - GEPC - Zaino



3) SMR - GEPC - (dawn) - Zaino



4) SMR - GEPC - Zaino
 
Oggle said:
If I were to use the 3M SMR via PC first, would doing the GEPC make any difference afterwards?



Also, if GEPC is recommended after SMR, which of the following do you guys recommend?



1) SMR - (dawn) - GEPC - (dawn) - Zaino



2) SMR - (dawn) - GEPC - Zaino



3) SMR - GEPC - (dawn) - Zaino



4) SMR - GEPC - Zaino
Click to expand...



#3 bro.
 
Ok,

This is a preliminary result of Z2 ZFX over IHG



This is what I did.

Dawn wash

Clay

SMR

wipe down with wet towels

IHG on 1/2 of the Z3

Z2 ZFX on the entire car



I was in a rush so the prep was not the best. There were still some swirls left, especially on the hood.

My first impression is that the IHG filled the some of the swirls. Also it did not feel as slick as the straight Zaino side. To the eye there is no noticable difference. I would post pics but I don't have my camera AGAIN! Wife keeps lending it to my duaghter. Otherwise I have nothing to report as of yet. I'll post again this weekend and as things develope.







I'll wash it a couple times and see how the Zaino holds up on the IHG side.

:wavey
 
Your initial results are consistent with what I thought would happen.



The IHG is probably preventing the Z2 from properly cross-linking with the clear and hence the slickness is less on the IHG side.



The durability should also be diminished.



When you wash, I'd hypothesize that the beads formed will be slightly larger on the IHG side. If you could take a photo of the IHG/Z2 vs Z2 side right after you rinse, that would be great to see.



Thanks for keeping us updated. Almost looks like I won't need to complete the test myself :( I'll still do the BFvsZainovsKlasse thou :) And perhaps through GEPC into the mix.



Paco
 
paco said:
Your initial results are consistent with what I thought would happen.



The IHG is probably preventing the Z2 from properly cross-linking with the clear and hence the slickness is less on the IHG side.



The durability should also be diminished.



When you wash, I'd hypothesize that the beads formed will be slightly larger on the IHG side. If you could take a photo of the IHG/Z2 vs Z2 side right after you rinse, that would be great to see.



Thanks for keeping us updated. Almost looks like I won't need to complete the test myself :( I'll still do the BFvsZainovsKlasse thou :) And perhaps through GEPC into the mix.



Paco
Click to expand...



I'll try to take some pics this weekend

Bruce
 
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