First time using the Cyclo, results, and need some advice/input...this is long

[simplybao]

Well, last weekend I thought I'd give it a go and try using the Cyclo. I've never used it before and was told it was pretty easy and I couldn't mess up my paint....well, maybe you can, LOL.



I worked on 2 cars, my black Cadillac CTS and my Yellow '01 Jeep TJ. The Jeep normally doesn't get this much attention because it's a toy that I drive through the woods and any work I do on it will eventually be wasted because of trees, branches, and whatever else gets in my way gets run over.



So I started with the Cadillac. This was my process:



1. 2 bucket wash using Mequires Gold Class wash

2. Clay bar using Mother's Clay

3. Polish (using Cyclo and Cyclo pads):



1Z Intensive Pasta on green

1Z PP on green



I stopped right there. I thought I had some something horribly wrong. Since this is my first time and my picture taking skills aren't too great, it's hard to see.



First of all, I have no clue how long to run the machine for nor how fast to go over the panels. To start, I used the 1z IP and did a pass on a small section (about 2' x 2'). Not being sure how long to run it, I ran it for probably all of 5 seconds. And not knowing how fast to move the machine, I moved it around pretty quickly.



After the IP, I wiped it off immediately. The results were ummm, not so great. I don't have a picture of it but the finish seemed to be cloudy and it looked like there were more scratches than before.



So I then hit it with the 1z PP on green. Again, I went pretty quickly and only for a few seconds. After wiping it off, I saw holograms and the finish was really cloudy.



This is what it looked like before:

And after 1 quick pass with Intensive Pasta and PP

In the pictures it's hard to see see the holograms and the cloudy finish. I was scared that I had messed up the paint so I quit machine polishing and I moved to Klasse AIO. It took me 30 min by hand to clean up that one 2x2' section. I finally got the finish to shine again, but the swirls and scratches from before were still there. I did the rest of the car in AIO and topped it with Collinite 885.



It's funny, because in the sun, it only looks like light scratches and swirls are there. But under the Halogen, you can see EVERYTHING!. I wanted to turn off the light as quickly as possible. Why is it that you can't see all those imperfections just out in the daylight but you can under a Halogen?



So I wrapped up the day and thought about it all night and was figuring that I did something wrong. I didn't want to try it on the Cadillac again because I actually do care about it's finish, so I thought I'd try the Jeep.



My process for the Jeep:



1. 2 bucket wash with Meg's gold class

2. Clay with Meg's claybar -- wow this bar worked so much better than the Mother's. It was an OTC, but it seemed to work great.

3. Polish with Cyclo:



3 passes with 1z Intensive pasta on orange pads

1 pass with 1z IP on green

1 pass with 1z Paint Polish (pp) on green



I then rewashed and applied collinite 885







Before, this is what the entire vehicle looked like:

and

This is after the polish but before the Collinite. You may notice some scratches still present. The ones that are still there are deep. If you run your finger nail across the scratch, you can feel it. I wasn't sure how to correct those and well, they'll just be back next time I'm on the trail, so I left them. They aren't noticeable in daylight, only under halogen.

and

Now on to my questions.



From reading autopia previously, I was more afraid of the 1z Intensive Pasta than I was of the 1z pp. But it turns out, the 1z IP was much easier to use.



On the Jeep, I decided that a few seconds was just not long enough. I only worked 2x2 sections at a time and with the Intensive Pasta, the swirls, scratches, and most of the RIDS worked themselves out with each pass. I worked the polish longer than only a few seconds...actually I worked it until I could see a haze. I'm not sure if that's too long or not.



I didn't wait for it to dry, I just wiped it off immediately. It didn't really matter how fast I moved the polisher, it left no cloudy paint nor did it leave any holograms. The finish looked so nice, I thought about leaving it as is.



I then moved on to the 1z Paint Polish. I hate this stuff. The can it comes in sucks. You HAVE to put it in another container in order to pour it onto the pad or else it comes out in big glops.



I learned that if I moved the polisher at anything but a snail's pace, I induced holograms.



The bottle says to wait for the product to dry then wipe off. Hmmmm, if I wiped it off before it dried, it seemed like it was still leaving a film on the paint. You had to get really close to see it.



I then tried to let it dry. Wow, I let it dry too long (only a minute or so) and I could hardly get the stuff off.



I let it dry for a shorter amount of time and it seemed to wipe off easier. But then if I didn't wait long enough, it left a film on the paint. Again, you had to get really close to the paint and look at all sorts of crazy angles to see it (it's yellow and hard to see).



So, my question is, should the 1z paint polish be soooo freakin finicky? Or am I just doing it wrong? Is there an easier product to work with?



The 1 z Intensive Pasta was a breeze and a dream to use. So easy to use. The 1z Paint Polish sucks though...maybe it's just the newbie in me.....



And I think I want to get a PC now. The Cyclo just seems so big and sometimes it seemed like it's just too fast. I wish I could adjust the speed. I bet the 1z Paint Polish would have worked better if I could set it to a low speed.



Any other tips and advice?

 

[Todd@RUPES]

Didn't read your whole thread, but in general with the polishes you are using you woud want to work them for 2-3 minutes per section vs. 5 seconds...

 

[simplybao]

wow....2 - 3 minutes per section? I didn't go anywhere near that amount of time. Won't the product dry out in that amount of time?

 

[99GrandAM]

Thats usually the point...you work the polish in until its broken down all the way (usually takes the 2-3 mins as TH said), and usually at that point the polish is ALMOST dry. The reason it took you forever to get the polish off, the reason for a film over the paint, and the reason for the holograms is because the polish wasn't broken down all the way.



...if I'm wrong someone please correct me.

 

[Accumulator]

simplybao- Sorry to hear you're having such problems with the 1Z, especially since I'm the guy who recommends it as being so easy to use!



I just did two cars with it ('93 Audi and '08 Chevy) and the Cyclos, and both went just as easy as could be :think: On the Chevy, I had my nephew-in-law doing half the work after merely explaining things the same way I had with you, I didn't even demo it. I'm not saying that as a criticism of you by any means, I'm just surprised as can be that you had problems.



I suspect you're not working the products nearly long enough (as already suggested). Although I've never timed myself, I use very little product too, so what I do use won't take that long to break down the way I think of it, but yeah...we're talking minutes not seconds.



Use less product. With the 1Z I think in terms of "just enough product to lubricate the pad". The only way I can imagine PP being hard to buff off is using way too much product. I kept telling my nephew-in-law to use less and less product even though he wasn't using much; I'd actually reach over and wipe half the PP off his pads and put it on my machine- he was amazed at how little polish it takes. It's not like you need a dime-size blob on each Cyclo pad, so use less than that.



To put 1Z polishes on the pad, I just hold the pad/machine over the top of the can and give the can a little shake. This deposits a tiny amount of polish on the pad. Or you can pour out a tiny drop but you need to do this slowly and carefully or you'll get way too much. Then repeat two more times so you have about three very small blobs of polish. None should be even as large as the nail on your pinky finger even if you have small hands.



Hmmm..wonder how quickly your pads loaded up :think: How often did you have to stop to clean them? Note that you should always be able to clearly see the (open/unclogged) pores of the green pads; they shouldn't be clogged with product.



Work the Pasta Intensiv until it's almost dry, the way you did on the Jeep. Work the Paint Polish until it *is* just barely dry. When the PP is broken down it turns into wax, wax which should be allowed to dry to a fine haze on the paint. (In layman's terms) until it gets to that point it's basically abrasives mixed in polishing oil; you need to break down the abrasives and dissipate the oils so nothing's left but the wax.



As you learned on the Jeep, you want to move the polisher pretty slowly. Once the product is almost dry you can move it faster, but don't do that while the product is still abrading.



I often work areas smaller than 2' x 2', but again, that's with a very small amount of product. I don't like to cover big areas with 1Z or to spread out my area of operation, it's just not the best product for that type of approach. Work a small area with a small amount of product and then move on to the next area.



The speed/length of throw of the Cyclo always seems well suited to use with PP, when using the PC you have to turn it down to near-Cyclo speeds ~4 or it'll break down too fast and not do enough correction. While the Cyclo is a bit speedy for some products (e.g. KAIO), it really is OK for 1Z and better IMO/IME than the PC.

 

[simplybao]

Accumulator:



Thanks so much for your help. I figured I was doing something wrong. My greatest fear was working the product too long. Can the product be worked too long? And how do I know the product is dry just by looking at it? I had no idea how long to work it. In my original post, you said that I would "know" when I had worked it long enough. Well I didn't know...LOL.



And after reading this post, it seems like I DID use too much product. Again, in my other post, I said I was used to using very little product because of the Klasse AIO. But you said that I'd use more than KAIO and that I'd be surprised by how much I'd use. Maybe I was thinking too much and not using enough common sense.....



Ok, so now I know to work the product longer. On the Jeep, I did work both products longer, but nowhere near minutes per section. No wonder I had to make 3 passes with the Pasta Intensiv. If I had worked it longer, I probably only would have only go over it with one pass.



I think I understand now. Just work the product longer and let it do the work. Sheesh,I wish I would have known that before. I spent hmmm, 4 hours polishing the Jeep. But I was using the Jeep as a learning tool.



But it's yellow, and I'd like to learn more on Black. I think I'm going to the junk yard and buy a black fender, hood, or other body part and practice on it.



I'd still like some ideas on other polishes. I like the Pasta Intensiv, but what about a finishing polish?



I love trying new things. And I love this site. I'm very thankful for all of your help.

 

[simplybao]

Also, since I've now learned that I have to work the product longer, do keep the cyclo in a stationary spot or do I move it around constantly and slowly?

 

[Accumulator]

Accumulator:



Thanks so much for your help. I figured I was doing something wrong. My greatest fear was working the product too long. Can the product be worked too long? And how do I know the product is dry just by looking at it? I had no idea how long to work it. In my original post, you said that I would "know" when I had worked it long enough. Well I didn't know...LOL...

Heh heh, don't thank me yet; let's see if we can sort this stuff out first



Sounds like you're now doing OK with the Pasta Intensiv, so I'll concentrate on the PP.



I don't think you can really work it too long provided you pay a little attention. When it's worked long enough it'll flash off/dry to a haze just like a wax. By the time you set the Cyclo down and wipe it with your finger it oughta basically have dried. It'll pass the "finger swipe test", meaning that when you wipe it with your finger you'll get a somewhat powdery dry residue that wipes off cleanly leaving some dry wax residue on your finger...it'll "wipe off cleanly" with no smearing and it'll *already* be dry; it won't still be wet enough that it doesn't dry until *after* the swipe.

And after reading this post, it seems like I DID use too much product. Again, in my other post, I said I was used to using very little product because of the Klasse AIO. But you said that I'd use more than KAIO and that I'd be surprised by how much I'd use. Maybe I was thinking too much and not using enough common sense.....

Almost everyone uses more KAIO than necessary, I do it too. It doesn't matter much with KAIO because that stuff doesn't really need to break down and the excess is seldom a problem. Different story with products like these 1Z polishes!

Ok, so now I know to work the product longer. On the Jeep, I did work both products longer, but nowhere near minutes per section. No wonder I had to make 3 passes with the Pasta Intensiv. If I had worked it longer, I probably only would have only go over it with one pass.

You will probably still need to do all those passes, but they'll be easier and things will turn out better. Even the Pasta Intensiv is pretty mild when used with the green pads; it's more aggressive with orange or yellow pads, but it won't leave as nice a finish with those (needs a subsequent pass with the green pads).

I think I understand now. Just work the product longer and let it do the work. Sheesh,I wish I would have known that before. I spent hmmm, 4 hours polishing the Jeep. But I was using the Jeep as a learning tool.

Well, this stuff *does* take a lot of time. Machines like the Cyclo/PC are so gentle that things happen very gradually (which is nice and safe).

But it's yellow, and I'd like to learn more on Black. I think I'm going to the junk yard and buy a black fender, hood, or other body part and practice on it.

I usually consider that unnecessary, but in this case it'll be a way to dial in your process without messing around with the Caddy too much, probably a good idea.

I'd still like some ideas on other polishes. I like the Pasta Intensiv, but what about a finishing polish?...I love trying new things.

On medium to hard clear the Paint Polish will do OK as a finishing polish, but the 1Z High Gloss is a good finishing polish for not-to-soft paint. It doesn't leave wax behind the way Paint Polish does, so in some ways it's more versatile (you can apply not-wax-friendly products after using it without needing to do an alcohol wipe).



Or look into Menzerna. I *DO NOT* like their 106FF but their Final PolishII is a good (if *VERY* and I mean !!VERY!! mild) product.



If you don't mind leaving wax behind the way the Paint Polish does, the 1Z Metallic Polish with Wax is a good finishing polish.



Perhaps I'm not the best guy to ask about finishing polishes as I use the High Gloss or the older version of the 1Z Pro-line Metallic Polish or the also discontinued 3M PI-III Machine Glaze 05937. Somebody who's more up-to-date product-wise could probably point you in a better direction.

 

[Accumulator]

Also, since I've now learned that I have to work the product longer, do keep the cyclo in a stationary spot or do I move it around constantly and slowly?

Generally you'd keep it moving, slowly.



But if there's a scratch/etc. that you want to concentrate yor efforts on, you can keep it stationary there for a while. Don't overdo this, but it's generally pretty safe (won't burn/cut through the paint). But *don't* hold it still on corners/edges/panel crown lines, the paint is usually a bit thin in these areas and better safe than sorry.

 

[simplybao]

Thanks so much for your reply. My friend has volunteered his dark Green Land Rover LR3 for me to play with.....



We took it out on the trails one day and it got scratched up pretty badly. But he said he is willing to let me give it a go. I'll let you know how it goes.



I know for sure I used too much product in the way that you described the way the pad is supposed to look.



For that matter, I think I don't let my regular wax dry long enough. I usually apply wax to a panel wait a few seconds then wipe off. I'll try to wait longer on all the products I use, but not too long.



This experimentation is so much fun. My body aches after I'm done though. I did 3 cars last weekend.



By the way, what do you use to clean your pads with? I did nothing more than put it in soapy water using Dawn Power scrubber. After soaking for about an hour, I just rubbed the pads with my hands. It got alot of it off, but I can still see residue on the pads. If I let the residue dry, is it too late for my pads?



By the way, I did 3 passes with the Intensive Pasta on Orange, 1 pass with Intensive Pasta on green, and 1 pass with PP on green. I think the results are pretty dramatic in real life. I don't know if my pictures really show how well it removed the scratches and swirls. I can tell a difference on the parts that I didn't go over with the cyclo (spots too small to get the cyclo in).



The parts that I did not do are simply not as bright and shiny. It almost looks like the paint is dull on those parts. I did try to use the products by hand and they help some, but sheesh, it takes a lot of rubbing to even notice a difference.

 

[Robb]

Generally you'd keep it moving, slowly.



But if there's a scratch/etc. that you want to concentrate yor efforts on, you can keep it stationary there for a while. Don't overdo this, but it's generally pretty safe (won't burn/cut through the paint). But *don't* hold it still on corners/edges/panel crown lines, the paint is usually a bit thin in these areas and better safe than sorry.

agreed 100%, sucks to find out the hard way no edges

 

[Accumulator]

.. My friend has volunteered his dark Green Land Rover LR3 for me to play with.....

Ah, good plan.

For that matter, I think I don't let my regular wax dry long enough. I usually apply wax to a panel wait a few seconds then wipe off. I'll try to wait longer on all the products I use, but not too long.

I let all my waxes dry, even Souveran. But I hear there are some that this won't work with.

By the way, what do you use to clean your pads with? I did nothing more than put it in soapy water using Dawn Power scrubber. After soaking for about an hour, I just rubbed the pads with my hands. It got alot of it off, but I can still see residue on the pads. If I let the residue dry, is it too late for my pads?

I clean them with hot water and Dawn (either regular or their Power Dissolver). OR a MF detergent. If you clean them out as you go there won't be as much residue at the end.



I wouldn't expect the remaining residue to cause problems, but I'd spray some QD on them before the next use to soften it up a little.

I can tell a difference on the parts that I didn't go over with the cyclo (spots too small to get the cyclo in).



The parts that I did not do are simply not as bright and shiny. It almost looks like the paint is dull on those parts. I did try to use the products by hand and they help some, but sheesh, it takes a lot of rubbing to even notice a difference.

Gotta be careful with the Pasta Intensiv by hand, and yeah, things can take a long time using the Paint Polish by hand!



Glad to hear you can see an improvement, now to just get things dialed in just right...

 

[[Twitch]]

When I first used my PC tp polish my car, I researched many tutorial and videos about it



Here a website demonstrating all the steps from start to finish of how you should machine polish. It even shows you how it looks like when the polish has broken down properly.



Car Detailing videos - How to detail, polish and wax your Car



He is using a PC in the videos, but I am assuming his techniques still apply with Cyclo or rotary.

 

[simplybao]

When I first used my PC tp polish my car, I researched many tutorial and videos about it



Here a website demonstrating all the steps from start to finish of how you should machine polish. It even shows you how it looks like when the polish has broken down properly.



Car Detailing videos - How to detail, polish and wax your Car



He is using a PC in the videos, but I am assuming his techniques still apply with Cyclo or rotary.

That was awesome! Thanks for posting that. The video of the hazing is exactly what I did my first time through on the Cadillac. This is what I needed. Thanks for posting this!

 

[SuperBee364]

+1 on Accumulator's suggestion of the 1Z High Gloss (Hoch Glanz). With a rotary, you really have to be careful with this stuff as far as clear coat hardness. It's a ceramiclear rated polish, and will raise havoc on softer clears. *However* it is a very good polish to use with a DA. You can use it on softer clears with a DA than you can with a rotary. YMMV, though, so be careful with it. When it works, it works very well, and fast. I would think that the clears on both of your cars would be hard enough to get great results with the High Gloss and the Cyclo.



High Gloss works faster than most polishes, which sounds like a good thing for you. You simply apply it, work it at... hmm... this might be the hard part... determining the correct speed with a cyclo. I work it at speed six on the PC, and at 800-1k rpm on the rotary... can someone step in with the right speed on a cyclo? Anyway, you work it til it pretty much disappears, then remove whatever slight residue remains. Great stuff (when it works correctly).



I would seriously consider the High Gloss over most of the other finishing polishes for use with the DA. It has *much* more bite than most finishing polishes, and is capable of cleaning up compounding haze and holograms very well. IMO, better than pretty much any other finishing polish *when used with a DA*. If we were talking rotary, the discussion would be much longer, but we're not; we're talking DA or Cyclo.



My go-to process for polishing with a DA (which *should* work with a Cyclo):



M105 with small PFW pads for correcting (or most agressive foam pads on cyclo. Don't remember the color off hand)



1Z High Gloss on white foam (or orange if working ceramiclear clear coat)



PO85RD (or FPII on soft clears) on black foam



That process *should* give you maximum correction and maximum shine for any given amount of time invested.



Two applications of High Gloss might be needed to completely clean up after the 105.



Edit: just realized I was talking LC foam colors. They need to be translated into the correct colors for Cyclo. I have *no* experience with the cyclo.

 

[Accumulator]

..High Gloss works faster than most polishes, which sounds like a good thing for you. You simply apply it, work it at... hmm... this might be the hard part... determining the correct speed with a cyclo...

At first I thought you were being facetious; the Cyclo is a single-speed polisher :chuckle: If you weren't such a rotary-Meister I'd try to talk you into getting one

I work it at speed six on the PC, and at 800-1k rpm on the rotary...

With 1Z polishes, I sometimes get *more* abrasion via PC by using a *slower* speed, takes the abrasives longer to break down. Then I turn it up and finish working it at a higher speed. (This is with a 4" pad.)



With other brands of polish I'm always turning the PC up to 5 or 6, but 1Z's "easy fracture" abrasives seem to do a bit more cutting when worked at a *lower* speed for a while.

Anyway, you work it til it pretty much disappears, then remove whatever slight residue remains..

Yep, and this is a lot easier when you use a small amount of product.

I would seriously consider the High Gloss over most of the other finishing polishes for use with the DA. It has *much* more bite than most finishing polishes, and is capable of cleaning up compounding haze and holograms very well..

I never find the High Gloss as aggressive as SuperBee364 does, maybe because I'm always using it via Cyclo :think: I always feel that the Cyclo breaks 1Z stuff down pretty fast so there isn't a *whole* lot of cut, but hey, that's just me and I'm almost always using it on hard clear that's already had it's issues pretty well sorted out.

 

[SuperBee364]

At first I thought you were being facetious; the Cyclo is a single-speed polisher :chuckle: If you weren't such a rotary-Meister I'd try to talk you into getting one

Well, that *does* make speed selection a much easier decision....



The day you purchase your Vintage, I'll purchase a Cyclo.



On a PC, it seems to me that the High Gloss has quite a bit more bite to it than, say, 106FF. Now I'm really tempted to try it at a slower speed; slowing it down on the rotary makes it bite *really* hard. Of course, speeding it up on the rotary makes it flash so fast that it's about unusable.



I'd love to hear a comparison PC vs. Cyclo when using High Gloss as far as which seems to be more aggressive.

 

[Accumulator]

The day you purchase your Vintage, I'll purchase a Cyclo.

Heh heh, you got me there

On a PC, it seems to me that the High Gloss has quite a bit more bite to it than, say, 106FF. Now I'm really tempted to try it at a slower speed; slowing it down on the rotary makes it bite *really* hard. Of course, speeding it up on the rotary makes it flash so fast that it's about unusable.



I'd love to hear a comparison PC vs. Cyclo when using High Gloss as far as which seems to be more aggressive.

Well, you know how I feel about 106FF after what happened with the DenaliXL



I shoulda tried switching between the PC and the Cyclo when I did that one...woulda been a great comparison. But I did all the correction with other stuff to such an extent that the HG wasn't really doing any correction to compare.



Note that the 106FF-concealed holograms would *NOT* come out with 1Z HG, they were much to severe for that stuff (not that I was trying it with the rotary...).



*Generally* the PC/4" combo is *more* aggressive than the Cyclo. I was sorta surprised by that, but there you go..still prefer the Cyclo though.

 

[SuperBee364]

Interesting stuff, Accumulator, thanks!



Yeah, I remember the 106/Denali...



I'll be doing a black Toyota Camry next week. I'm going to revisit High Gloss and the PC on this car, for sure. Both for how much correction I can get out of it, and how well it finishes down on the relatively soft Toyota clear.

 

[simplybao]

LOL. If I continue reading this kind of stuff I might get a bit more confused. For now, I'm going to stick with what I have. I've shelled out enough money on product for the time being.



On the Jeep the combo of Pasta Intesiv and the PP worked out great. Probably better if I work the product a bit longer. After watching the videos above, I've learned where I was doing things wrong. i.e. going too fast, using too much polish, and not working the polish long enough.



Based on what I've read, I'm no longer afraid to just try out the cyclo. It seems like it's not aggressive enough for me to really mess up my paint.



When I get around to trying it on the Cadillac again, I'll post up the result. The caddy is currently in the shop for a sunroof issue. They told us they didn't know when we would get it back :wall:wall The part is on back order and they said it could be weeks. In the mean time, I'm driving a rental cadi so all in the world is good I've been wanting to bust out the tools and try to correct the paint on it. I think there's something wrong with me, LOL.