Finishing with a Rotary

[Todd@RUPES]

Todd -



Weren't you a big UFSE fan at one point? I think I bought a bottle just because you recommended it...which wasn't cheap, lol!

Sorry Mike!! I WAS a big UF-SE fan for a while. It has the potential to finish out hologram free, but should only be used to remove holograms (and light ones at that). I have seen posts with people going from wool to UF and that is the issue.



I'm still looking for a polish that has no filling (except Z-PC, which sucks on a rotary).

 

[imported_Picus]

Hey Todd - do you find FPII fills much? I completely agree with you on 106ff and SIP (in fact, they've really been irritating me lately), but I don't see much filling with FP or FPII even after extended periods of time. I've been using FPII much more than 106ff in the recent months and it's been going well. No more surprise holograms :/

 

[SpoiledMan]

Hey Todd - do you find FPII fills much? I completely agree with you on 106ff and SIP (in fact, they've really been irritating me lately), but I don't see much filling with FP or FPII even after extended periods of time. I've been using FPII much more than 106ff in the recent months and it's been going well. No more surprise holograms :/

I've gone back to IP and FPII and not having any issues at all. It's also much cheaper.



Anybody want to buy some 106ff........cheap?

 

[imported_d00t]

Wow! Thanks Todd for the thorough response, and everyone else! I guess I'm not alone in the pursuit for the perfect finish . Sounds like my problem was that 106 is just too aggressive on soft clears as a finishing polish.



Could I go straight from SIP to 85rd on a car with hard clear, or would I need the 106 in the middle? Or even SIP to 106 and leave out 85rd?



On soft clears, if you need to use SIP would I have to do a 3 step like SIP>106FA>85rd?

 

[ABQDetailer]

UF-SE will fill like nobodies bussiness and it is VERY difficult to remove the oils (even after numerous wipe downs with some pretty harsh solvents). Best bet, pull it in the sun for a day with no LSP and re-inspect. You will be amazed at how much is still left (maybe).



I see people going from compound to UF, and I can only shake my head. In 3 months the car will look like it has only been compounded. Your best bet is to only use UF-SE for finishing and NEVER trust it for defect removal. Even then you might find some light pad abrasion marring 3 months down the road.

I did notice the product seems to work for a long time.



I wasn't actually recommending him to go straight from Compound to UFSE but rather to use UFSE after a good polish solely to remove holograms. This seems to be the best use of this product for me when I'm polishing with a rotary and it was the missing link in my process.

 

[Driven Auto Detail]

Sorry Mike!! I WAS a big UF-SE fan for a while. It has the potential to finish out hologram free, but should only be used to remove holograms (and light ones at that). I have seen posts with people going from wool to UF and that is the issue.



I'm still looking for a polish that has no filling (except Z-PC, which sucks on a rotary).

Thanks for the explanation on UFSE Todd. By no means am I unhappy that I purchased it (just giving you a hard time, hehe). I'll definitely keep it in my arsenal for now.



Thanks again!

 

[Todd@RUPES]

Hey Todd - do you find FPII fills much? I completely agree with you on 106ff and SIP (in fact, they've really been irritating me lately), but I don't see much filling with FP or FPII even after extended periods of time. I've been using FPII much more than 106ff in the recent months and it's been going well. No more surprise holograms :/

I have "seen" FPII fill slightly (no where near SIP/106ff). I haven't mentioned SIP too much because but it does have the ability to fill. There is a thread titled "Bella Macchina Porsche" of something that I did with the help of Pats300ZX. It was so frustrating because everytime after SIP, a wipe down would reveal defects returning. Eventually (after 3-4 passes) the paint would look perfect.



FP and FPII seem to the least finicky and least likely to fill. Like I said out of maybe 50 cars finished with FPII, I have only seen something come back once. The thing is that we detail in dynamic enviroments on different paints every day. Our standards are also much much higher.



I have never seen IP nor FP fill, but then again I might not have ran into that terrible paint job that reacts bad with the polish.



Then again I have seen PowerGloss remove sanding marks when M105 wouldn't touch them (depsite the fact that M105 is seriously 12 times more powerful). Doing this full time (despite a slightly slow summer) has only taught me that I don't know anything but I do have enough experience to get the job done perfectly given the time to try enough products and techniques.



That is why it is so hard to have hard rules of rotary polishing and I think a lot of people give up after a while. Finish a G37 with either 106ff/fa/ or PO85rd and go look at it 3 weeks later. Hell, if that was my first car that I polished with a rotary I would probably have quit (and saved this forum from drama!)



I should buy stock in Wurth Prep-Solve because I wipe the panels down after every pass now, and one thing that I have learned is that everything "can" fill, which was very disheartening. I don't trust the results I see until I wipe the car down 3-5 times and can inspect it in the sun, otherwise its just guess work.



This also leads to 20-40 hours of polishing (vs 5-8), trying to remove stuff that you cannot see.

 

[Todd@RUPES]

I did notice the product seems to work for a long time.



I wasn't actually recommending him to go straight from Compound to UFSE but rather to use UFSE after a good polish solely to remove holograms. This seems to be the best use of this product for me when I'm polishing with a rotary and it was the missing link in my process.

NP, I wasn't referring to your post directly (at all really). I was just trying to state that to really finish a car out with a rotary takes a lot of trial and error, practice, and the correct techniques.



For a week end warrior (who is willing to give up the last 2% in their finish that a rotary can produce) it is probably better to finish with a PC. However if you want to "master" the rotary prepare for a lot of head scratching and frustration. The results are worth it though!!!

 

[imported_Picus]

I've gone back to IP and FPII and not having any issues at all. It's also much cheaper.



Anybody want to buy some 106ff........cheap?

Ya, me to to some extent. I still don't love IP, so I use SIP occasionally, but on really trashed paint where I need serious correction I still find it has a hard time dealing with the holograms even 105 leaves behind (which I will often use *after* HTEc or Presta Ultra).



I have a gallon of 106ff, and I am sure I will use it eventually, but more slowly. It's still good as a final finishing product.

I have "seen" FPII fill slightly (no where near SIP/106ff). I haven't mentioned SIP too much because but it does have the ability to fill. There is a thread titled "Bella Macchina Porsche" of something that I did with the help of Pats300ZX. It was so frustrating because everytime after SIP, a wipe down would reveal defects returning. Eventually (after 3-4 passes) the paint would look perfect.



FP and FPII seem to the least finicky and least likely to fill. Like I said out of maybe 50 cars finished with FPII, I have only seen something come back once. The thing is that we detail in dynamic enviroments on different paints every day. Our standards are also much much higher.



I have never seen IP nor FP fill, but then again I might not have ran into that terrible paint job that reacts bad with the polish.



Then again I have seen PowerGloss remove sanding marks when M105 wouldn't touch them (depsite the fact that M105 is seriously 12 times more powerful). Doing this full time (despite a slightly slow summer) has only taught me that I don't know anything but I do have enough experience to get the job done perfectly given the time to try enough products and techniques.



That is why it is so hard to have hard rules of rotary polishing and I think a lot of people give up after a while. Finish a G37 with either 106ff/fa/ or PO85rd and go look at it 3 weeks later. Hell, if that was my first car that I polished with a rotary I would probably have quit (and saved this forum from drama!)



I should buy stock in Wurth Prep-Solve because I wipe the panels down after every pass now, and one thing that I have learned is that everything "can" fill, which was very disheartening. I don't trust the results I see until I wipe the car down 3-5 times and can inspect it in the sun, otherwise its just guess work.



This also leads to 20-40 hours of polishing (vs 5-8), trying to remove stuff that you cannot see.

Thanks. I know what you mean about the hours of polishing, hah.



I was actually going to make a post about SIP the other day, and ironically it was on a black G37... it was driving me nuts, so much so I said forget it and moved to 3m stuff. I was cutting with M105, then going to SIP, getting a good finish...then 10 minutes later (it was hot) I had holograms, I assume because the oils were evaporating. I must have went over the hood 5 times with SIP before I said screw it. It's a shame, because there is a lot I like about it, but if it's going to fill on me I'll need to find something else to take its place.

 

[Driven Auto Detail]

What's the deal with the new G37's? Does it have something to do with Nissan's new "self-repairing" paint system?

 

[imported_d00t]

I was actually going to make a post about SIP the other day, and ironically it was on a black G37... it was driving me nuts, so much so I said forget it and moved to 3m stuff. I was cutting with M105, then going to SIP, getting a good finish...then 10 minutes later (it was hot) I had holograms, I assume because the oils were evaporating. I must have went over the hood 5 times with SIP before I said screw it. It's a shame, because there is a lot I like about it, but if it's going to fill on me I'll need to find something else to take its place.

Picus so what did you do? I only have Menzerna in my line up for now and don't know what I'd do if this happened to me .

 

[Todd@RUPES]

Ya, me to to some extent. I still don't love IP, so I use SIP occasionally, but on really trashed paint where I need serious correction I still find it has a hard time dealing with the holograms even 105 leaves behind (which I will often use *after* HTEc or Presta Ultra).



I have a gallon of 106ff, and I am sure I will use it eventually, but more slowly. It's still good as a final finishing product.







Thanks. I know what you mean about the hours of polishing, hah.



I was actually going to make a post about SIP the other day, and ironically it was on a black G37... it was driving me nuts, so much so I said forget it and moved to 3m stuff. I was cutting with M105, then going to SIP, getting a good finish...then 10 minutes later (it was hot) I had holograms, I assume because the oils were evaporating. I must have went over the hood 5 times with SIP before I said screw it. It's a shame, because there is a lot I like about it, but if it's going to fill on me I'll need to find something else to take its place.

Perhaps, one day you and I will be as good as the body shop and production guys who use this product, and if we are very lucky, we will be good enough to use it at all.

 

[SpoiledMan]

My love for SIP went away a while ago. I've never seen anything make a buffer howl like that.

 

[imported_Picus]

What's the deal with the new G37's? Does it have something to do with Nissan's new "self-repairing" paint system?

I don't think it's just G37s or Nissans. I've seen similar things happen on black BMWs, black Hondas, black Audi's/VWs... and the fact that we see it on black doesn't mean it isn't happening on other colours, just that we don't see it in natural light. I am sure that it's still taking away from the finish at a microscopic level.

Picus so what did you do? I only have Menzerna in my line up for now and don't know what I'd do if this happened to me .

I switched to 3m perfect it swirl mark remover, then finished with Opt Polish then FPII. The 3M left almost no halogramming behind, but FPII gave the finish more gloss. I've done the same thing with presta 1500.

Perhaps, one day you and I will be as good as the body shop and production guys who use this product, and if we are very lucky, we will be good enough to use it at all.

I see what you did there. :rofl

My love for SIP went away a while ago. I've never seen anything make a buffer howl like that.

Are you using IP in its place or something else? I've tried to replace SIP with a number of different polishes but haven't been super happy with any of them. On that G37 I ended up doing 4 steps, which I don't mind but it adds a lot of time.

 

[imported_d00t]

My love for SIP went away a while ago. I've never seen anything make a buffer howl like that.

What do you recommend in place of SIP?

 

[SpoiledMan]

I replaced SIP with IP and just vary the pad I use it with. We tested SIP and IP side by side on the black Phaeton that I did last year (soon to be seen again) and there was no discernible difference. I'm SIP free except for a mixture os IP and SIP that I have sitting around.

 

[Scottwax]

Todd can correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think he is saying UFSE is a bad product. I think he is saying if used incrorrectly, it will fill. You shouldn't compound a panel, then go to UFSE. You need another step in between...Meg's 83, SIP, etc...



I think a lot of people think UFSE is the silver bullet to finishing out holigram free with a rotary, and the jump to it too early in the polishing process.

Exactly. Even the directions on the bottle say to follow a compound with a polish so you leave only light holograms behind to be removed by UF. If you follow the directions, UF will leave the paint hologram free.



I have been able to follow Meguiars #105/8006 foam pad with Ultrafina but only on hard paints where #105 leaves only faint holograms. The rest of the time I usually go with Optimum polish using either a white or a black LC pad (depending on the level of holograms).



If I don't have any sun available to check for holograms, I've been finishing with the PC to be on the safe side despite the normal reliability of UF.

 

[Scottwax]

Thanks. I know what you mean about the hours of polishing, hah.



I was actually going to make a post about SIP the other day, and ironically it was on a black G37... it was driving me nuts, so much so I said forget it and moved to 3m stuff. I was cutting with M105, then going to SIP, getting a good finish...then 10 minutes later (it was hot) I had holograms, I assume because the oils were evaporating.

I had that happen with Meguiars #83 on the hood of a black Jetta. Looked absolutely perfect for 5 minutes, the *bam* light holograms. Went over it with Ultrafina and it sat a good 2-3 hours while polishing out the rest of the car. Still hologram free while the light haze/streaks visible after wiping off UF were completely gone.

 

[imported_artikxscout]

Wow! Thanks Todd for the thorough response, and everyone else! I guess I'm not alone in the pursuit for the perfect finish . Sounds like my problem was that 106 is just too aggressive on soft clears as a finishing polish.



Could I go straight from SIP to 85rd on a car with hard clear, or would I need the 106 in the middle? Or even SIP to 106 and leave out 85rd?



On soft clears, if you need to use SIP would I have to do a 3 step like SIP>106FA>85rd?

Usually for me 106FF is good enough to finish down all the way. If you really want to be absolutely sure that there's no holograms, i'd probably finish own with the 85rd.

 

[SpoiledMan]

I had that happen with Meguiars #83 on the hood of a black Jetta. Looked absolutely perfect for 5 minutes, the *bam* light holograms. Went over it with Ultrafina and it sat a good 2-3 hours while polishing out the rest of the car. Still hologram free while the light haze/streaks visible after wiping off UF were completely gone.

I know from experience that UF can hide enough to do just that. Be careful.