Experienced detailer looking for guidance…why is this happening? (Many pics)

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Downgear

New member
Experienced detailer looking for guidance…why is this happening? (Many pics)



I have been detailing cars for over 10 years and have used countless products and methods. I can achieve the perfection I desire in the end however I believe my clay bar methods possibly need some help.





These pictures are from my last big detail session over a year ago:



I have perfected my wash technique with constant foam gun pressure, two buckets and both boars hair and sheepskin mitts.



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The following pics were taken after the car had been through a very rough Canadian winter and almost weekly washes over the course of a year. As you can see the swirls are VERY minimal on this super soft black paint…the car is still less swirled than 95% of the cars out there!



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Getting the car ready for polish and checking paint.



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This is where the problem comes in and I NEED HELP!!!

I manage to make it through the entire year with so little damage to the paint and no matter how I go about claying my car, the following damage is created!



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I don’t see how others claybar the car before every wax because basically if I clay my car, I must polish because it gets scratched up so badly. Here is my process:

- Use sonus green clay (softest clay out there) I actually find it too gentle but still causes marring. I prefer automagic blue. Which is what I used before those pictures.

- I use ONR at quick detailer strength as lube and use TONS OF IT!

- I cut the clay into tiny pieces and keep throwing it out after a small section.

- I soak the clay in warm water to make it soft and stay soft.



What else could I do here? Why am I causing all this damage to my car after claying. Some of the marring even requires two passes of polishing (using Menzerna 85RD) as a result of the clay damage. Any help is GREATLY appreciated. Is this paint that soft?
 
I was going to say that your using it too dry but I see you posted that you used lots of the quick detailer.



Is the clayBar a new bar?
 
From my experience there will always be marring when using a clay bar even with the softest clay.



It's easily removed with a light polish. I always follow up a clay bar with some soft of machine follow up be it DA or Rotary. In most situations applying a wax or sealant by DA with a finishing pad removes the marring.
 
I can't say I have ever had that happen after claying. It almost looks like the clay was too aggressive. It doesn't appear as though it is dirty, or it would leave RIDS, not uniform marring. Maybe you should switch to a different brand mild clay. Another thing also is that I have found ONR to be a "mediocre" clay lube at best. Try something with more lubricity such as Detail King's Clay Lube, or something along those lines.
 
Yes, the paint is that soft. And I dont think ONR is that good for a clay lube. Obviously it isnt working for you either. I think soapy water is still the best clay lube. Give it a shot next time.
 
Downgear said:
..What else could I do here? Why am I causing all this damage to my car after claying. Some of the marring even requires two passes of polishing (using Menzerna 85RD) as a result of the clay damage. Any help is GREATLY appreciated. Is this paint that soft?
Click to expand...



Some sorta-random thoughts follow:



Yeah, the paint *is* too soft for what you're doing. Heh heh, I think you know that already since hey...it's marring up the paint ;)



Some clays work a lot better/worse with certain lubes. E.g., with the Sonus green, *nothing* works as well for me as Glyde so even though it's pricey, that's what I usually use.



Your clay-induced marring looks like you're moving the clay farther than I do when trying to really avoid marring. What would happen if you worked inch-by-inch, concentrating on *barely* applying enough pressure to hold the clay in contact with the vehicle. Like..."one one-inch stroke with virtually zero pressure. Examine clay and paint. One more one-inch stroke...etc.". Yeah, it might take forever to clay one panel that way.



There appears to be clay residue on the paint, that would say "insufficient lube" to me.



If claying (the way you're really gonna do it in real life) mars up the paint, maybe washing with a decontamination system would be a better approach. Or just using a paint cleaner. While clay has become very poplular over the last couple of decades, people did fine without it for a looong time and for *me* one of the primarly motivations to use clay is that it can help me avoid having to do stuff like using a paint cleaner and/or doing some polishing. Since claying is *making* you do stuff like polishing, maybe it's just not right for you and/or that particular car.
 
marring on Berlina Black paint?

It's going to happen - and going to happen often. Berlina is a nightmare; I doubt anything else is as soft and as much of a pain to work with.



Some pro's won't clay a car unless they're going perform some type of correction step on it afterwards - I belong to that group of thinking for the shown exact reason
 
MuttGrunt said:
Some pro's won't clay a car unless they're going perform some type of correction step on it afterwards - I belong to that group of thinking for the shown exact reason
Click to expand...



Bump to this - I've only run into a handful of cars over my years of ownership that I could clay with no marring/minimal marring. A lot of times it would look horrible after claying. Simple polish fixes it up though.



So yea, soft clear + black + clay = fail no matter how good you are
 
well im not a pro but i can get good results with my pc and i do keep my cars up but i have also had this problem and i have been useing kits like the megs and mothers but i do like the claymagic kit better so i also thik its a lube issue lol.



i used the cheap megs lube/detail spray that comes with the kit and had this happen and the same goes for the mothers kit but not the clay magic kit so i think its the lube/spray your using.
 
dfazekas said:
I dont think its going to be the type of clay you're using or anything like that, since all the clay in the US is supposed top be the same...
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Clay is made in different grades depending on how its spec'ed. There are quite significant diffs between different clays.
 
Sorry, I should have been more specific.



All US clay is made by Auto Magic, so no matter if its Sonus or Megs, fine grade should be fine grade. Theres a huge difference between a mild clay and an aggressive clay, but thats not what I meant. Sorry, I should have clarified.



If I'm wrong on this then please correct me, but I've been told by several local distributors not to waste my money on their clay 'cause you can have the exact same thing, without all the packaging and colors, for about 10 bucks.



Either way, when it comes to decontaminating extremely soft paint (and you don't intend to do any polishing) I'd use something like the Finish Kare stuff.
 
Thank you very much for all the helpful advice. It looks likes I will stick to my own beliefs of "you must polish after claying".



This whole issue came up for me actually when I noticed last week that half of my entire car was covered with millions of tiny dots of either sap or some sort of weird over spray that would not come off with washing unless I rubbed REALLY hard...which I didn't want to do. I doubt its paint over spray because it came off the windshield and my test spots when I rubbed harder. After my very mild winter and low miles I was not planning on polishing however it looks likes I may have to clay and polish now to fix the car again.
 
dfazekas- OK, roger that clarification. I haven't used all that many different clays since switching to Sonus and getting my stash of SmartClay. I did always think the Griot's and Mothers seemed basically identical, or at least I couldn't tell any diffs between them.



DavidB discussed this subject back when he introduced the Sonus line; the manufacturer offered all sorts of options including how "aggressive" the clay would be. I do know that the Sonus Ultra Fine is quite different from the Griot's/Mothers in this regard. But yeah...once somebody checks the "most gentle" box on the order form I bet that's that.



downgear- That's a real dilemma all right- contamination on soft paint...
 
Your claybar is way to aggresive, Your using way to much pressure, and your not using enough clay lube. I never used onr before, but to get reults like that your not keeping the paint constantly wetenough. Think of it this waywhen you spray whatever lubrication your using. it should stay soaking wet. You want your lubricant to act as a suspension between the paint and the clay. best of luck.
 
I recently had my sonus green clay marr my car's finish. It was the first time in 4 fours years (and I clayed at almost every wash once every 1-2 mo). I attributed it to lack of lube. I was getting pretty ballsy with claying in the last few months, and have been using my soapy water as lube for the last three years. Back to dedicated lubing (which was meg's deep crystal at 1:2 with water)
 
AuAltima3.5 said:
I recently had my sonus green clay marr my car's finish. It was the first time in 4 fours years (and I clayed at almost every wash once every 1-2 mo). I attributed it to lack of lube. I was getting pretty ballsy with claying in the last few months, and have been using my soapy water as lube for the last three years. Back to dedicated lubing (which was meg's deep crystal at 1:2 with water)
Click to expand...



OR...maybe it was the clay. There was a batch of Sonus SFX (I no longer call it "Sonus Green" as they changed the color) that was a bit aggressive, enough so that I contacted David and asked about it as I was afraid I'd get some and mess up my paint.



But yeah, for very gentle claying with that stuff, I do prefer to use Glyde.
 
I've done numerous dark vehicles with Griot's clay and have never once induced marring. I also go through my final touch as clay lube like its going out of style...have never tried soapy water, it seems much more cost-efficient :) Is that still in-style clay lube? What dilution and what soap are you using (dawn if polishing and normal liquid hand soap if just claying before another LSP layer?).
 
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