engine waiver

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jason rawls

jason rawls

Weekend Warrior
I'm new to professional detailing and am a bit nervous about doing engines. I've heard of a few people having problems after getting their engine detailed.

In order to protect myself from being sued by someone claiming that I messed up their engine, I would like to have them sign a waiver before detailing it.

I was hoping that someone would give me an example of a waiver that they use since I'm having trouble deciding how to word mine.

Thanks in advance,
Jason
 
I don't think anyone would sign it. You are asking someone to sign their name to a document that says if you screw up their engine, its not your problem. Who whould do that?
 
I agree 10000%. I would never go somewhere that required me to write off all liability before they worked on my car. It is just advertising that you are not confident in what you are doing. If you are worried that you are going to mess up their engine, then I would suggest you don't offer engine detailing. I've detailed hundreds of engines and never destroyed one. I really think the risk is minimal if you know what you are doing.
 
Well, engine detailing isn't something that I'm going to advertise or try to upsell. However, if a customer really wants me to do it I would like to inform him that there are minor risks involved and that I'm not liable for any damage that may occur. If they decline then fine, my feelings wont be hurt at all.

What if somebody has something wrong with their engine before you even touch it and then blames it on you? I'm sure there are a few jerks in this world who will do just that, and I just want to protect myself from these types of situations.
 
That is what insurance is for. If you have insurance and they try to sue you then at least you don't go broke in case you accidently did screw something up. I really don't know what you could screw up. If the engine looks like its about to fall apart, then don't detail it. You'd have a really hard time ruining a $50,000 car's engine. Not much to wreck with a little water. Its not made out of sugar and its not going to melt.
 
I agree with Jngrbrdman. I think it creates a bad image for you, its saying that you don't stand by your work. You would probably be better off not offering engine detailing. I don't think the occasional 30 dollar engine detail you may get here or there is worth hurting your reputation by making people sign waivers to have you do work for them.
 
It sounds like you're trying too hard to be 'all things to all people'. It has been my experience that less than one person out of a thousand will actually request anything to do with engine detailing. When I stop and think about it, I really can't remember the last time one of my customers requested engine detailing. That was probably a few years ago. When I do get a special request, I simply offer to just wipe down the engine compartment and I will only lift the hood while the customer is present and can see that I'm not using any water or chemicals.
 
I completely flat out refuse engine detailing. Most cars in Australia are aging and/or poorly maintained, even late model stuff is a rit ratty in general. There are alarms, immobolisers, cracked air filter covers, poorly located plugs. The plugs on a lot of frontwheel drive V6s are very hard to get at let alone dry the contacts. The plugs in the back bank of my Diamante (Magna in Australia) are only to be replaced every 100000k because of the hassle getting to them, and I've tried :(

Sure a quick tidy with a sponge or rags can improve the look a million percent, but remember that most oil, road grime and critter guts is baked on and hard to reach esp on the firewall and its always the white cars that want the engine bays scrubbed up! I detail my engine bay in my spare time, but who sees it? If I wanted to impress my mechanic I'd buy him a beer. You're call but its time better spent elsewhere that you have more control and comfort over. IMHO
 
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TheSopranos16 said:
I don't think anyone would sign it. You are asking someone to sign their name to a document that says if you screw up their engine, its not your problem. Who whould do that?
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For years now (10+), I have printed the following wording on all invoices. It is adapted from a standard Mechanics Lien which we all probably sign prior to getting even a simple oil change. It has protected myself from litigation, I will not touch a vehicle without it, and I have yet to have a customer balk at signing it:

"I hereby agree the diagram illustrated right explains the condition of the vehicle upon arrival. If the vehicle cannot be seen clearly to determine paint condition, we are not held liable."

"I authorize the detail work, as per estimate, to be done along with necessary materials. Employees of ________________ (____) may operate vehicle for testing, inspection, or delivery at my risk. An express lien is acknowledged on vehicle to secure the amount of detail or extra work thereto. We (____) will not be held responsible for mechanical condition nor loss or damage to vehicle or articles left in vehicle in case of fire, theft, accident, or any other cause beyond our control. In the event any legal action is necessary to enforce this contract, I will pay reasonable attorney's fees and court costs."

This little protection has protected me on two occasions that could not be resolved without legal action brought about by the customers (they both lost thanks to the above clause). Of course I do and will make every effort to correct any unforeseen issues that may arise when work is performed -- I've even had cars re-pinstriped at my cost even when it was prior noted damage -- for as it says below -- "A happy customer tells a friend, an unhappy one tells many"
 
As a paralegal and a law student, I can tell you that your contract language isn't going to keep you out of a lawsuit forever. The best way to protect yourself is to just have a waiver that is really specific to what kind of problems may occur in high risk situations. If the engine is 20 years old, then detailing it is a little higher risk than if you detailed a brand new engine. If you pop the hood and see immediate risk, then you could tell the client that detailing this engine is going to be tricky. Either charge twice as much for the risk and basically force them to choose to have you ignore it, or have them sign a high risk waiver stating that you will not be held responsible for the damages at this point after you have told the client the risks. That would be a much better way of protecting yourself. The chances of actually screwing up their engine is minimal anyway, but it never hurts to protect yourself. I like the language of that waiver, and it would probably satisfy most people, but if a $200,000 Ferrari doesn't start after you detail the engine, then that waiver is not going to keep them from suing you. Trust me on that one. Just carry insurance and know a good laywer. Prepaid Legal would be a great suggestion to anyone in business like this. I've had it for the last 6 or 7 years and I don't know what I would do without it.
 
Jngrbrdman said:
As a paralegal and a law student, I can tell you that your contract language isn't going to keep you out of a lawsuit forever. The best way to protect yourself is to just have a waiver that is really specific to what kind of problems may occur in high risk situations. If the engine is 20 years old, then detailing it is a little higher risk than if you detailed a brand new engine. If you pop the hood and see immediate risk, then you could tell the client that detailing this engine is going to be tricky. Either charge twice as much for the risk and basically force them to choose to have you ignore it, or have them sign a high risk waiver stating that you will not be held responsible for the damages at this point after you have told the client the risks. That would be a much better way of protecting yourself. The chances of actually screwing up their engine is minimal anyway, but it never hurts to protect yourself. I like the language of that waiver, and it would probably satisfy most people, but if a $200,000 Ferrari doesn't start after you detail the engine, then that waiver is not going to keep them from suing you. Trust me on that one. Just carry insurance and know a good laywer. Prepaid Legal would be a great suggestion to anyone in business like this. I've had it for the last 6 or 7 years and I don't know what I would do without it.
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I can't agree with you more -- pre-paid legal services and insurance are must haves for any enterprise. Above the waiver I have two lines where comments can be placed. One of the two times where the waiver saved me was the cost of a re-paint. It was an old Jag that obviously (from the burns on numerous edges) had been buffed out before. After discussing the condition of the paint, the risks involved, and suggesting it be re-painted (his intentions were to sell the vehicle), I wrote in the comment line "Paint is thin, numerous burned edges, has been buffed upon before, will not be responsible for any damage." As soon as the buffer was touched to the paint, zing - paint was gone. To make a long story short; I immediately stopped work, didn't do anything else, contacted the customer, and didn't charge him a thing. Customer tried to sue me for a new paint job, claiming I ruined it. Armed with a copy of the signed invoice, the Judge denied his claim, awarded me "reasonable attorney's fees" for my consult ($750), as well as the cost of the detail ($225) which I hadn't even requested. I add that I have yet to find insurance that will cover the cost of anything other than a physical accident (i.e. a scratch, a dent, broken glass, fire, theft, etc.). Insurance will not cover damage caused by buffing through paint, steam cleaning a motor, discoloration of fabric/carpet from shampooing, etc. -- I once watched a former detail shop owner back a car into a wall on purpose to file a claim for some damage caused by a not so tentative employee with a buffer.
 
Thanks for all of the input and special thanks to Dr.Detail for giving me a few ideas as to how to word a disclaimer. It sounds very professional and most people are used to signing waivers as such.

Perhaps I will skip the engine detailing for now but I do like the idea of having a customer sign off on any damages already present on the vehicle.
 
dr_detail said:
Insurance will not cover damage caused by buffing through paint, steam cleaning a motor, discoloration of fabric/carpet from shampooing, etc. -- I once watched a former detail shop owner back a car into a wall on purpose to file a claim for some damage caused by a not so tentative employee with a buffer.
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When I started detailing I wet sanded something I shouldn't have. When I called to make a claim, denied. Only damage caused by an physical accident is covered. Cost me $450 for a repaint on the panel.

Next time I'll drive the car into a wall! Thanks for the tip. There is always so much to learn here on DC......(JK!) hahaha
 
As long as you detail the problems prior to working on it then you are safe. If I was in business where I did a lot of work, then I would probably photograph every car from every angle prior to touching it. I would suggest having the owner sign a pre-estimate checklist as well. As long as they are aware of the damage that the car came there with then they can't sue you. Often times you will make dents and dings that the owner was previously unaware of more visible by shining it up. A shiney dent is more visible than a dull dent.
 
I've often thought about ways to protect myself from liability. I've found that the customer, prior to work being done, will most often alert you to their picky or frivolous tendancies. I hope that makes sense because I can't think of a better way to explain it. I always do a thorough walk around with the customer. During this process, I point out, write down, and explain what I "I HOPE" I can do to improve the problem area. I never say, "I can fix that", I always say,"I think I can make that look much better." Good old underpromise and overdeliver philosophy.

Again, no good way to explain it, but you just know when a customer is gonna be weird about things. If I get this vibe, I'll reiterate a few times how I can "improve" their car.

Knock on wood, I've never had a legal issue.
 
Being in the detailing business does not have to be about being sued, signing waivers, insurance claims, Mechanics Liens, litigation, legal actions, enforcing contracts, attorney's fees, court costs, pre-paid legal services, disclaimers, photographing every car from every angle, pre-estimate checklists, and not being liable for any damage that may occur.

Trust your customers and your customers will trust you.
 
Not a flame war but wishful thinking!! In California, they sue people for a WHOLE lot less and if it does damage to their car, get ready cause it's coming.
 
mirrorfinishman said:
Being in the detailing business does not have to be about being sued, signing waivers, insurance claims, Mechanics Liens, litigation, legal actions, enforcing contracts, attorney's fees, court costs, pre-paid legal services, disclaimers, photographing every car from every angle, pre-estimate checklists, and not being liable for any damage that may occur.

Trust your customers and your customers will trust you.
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Famous last words there. Trust nobody. You have to cover your butt. If you want to be a sucker and trust everybody, then you deserve it when someone takes advantage of you. Honest customers aren't going to be offended by a little legal mumbo jumbo. They will probably respect your professionalism and ability to CYA. Hire a lawyer to write a simple contract for you and that will save you a ton of trouble if someone decides they see a target painted on your chest.

Being a detailer may not have anything to do with any of that, but being in business is. Detailing is one thing, but business is war. You have to protect yourself. Don't be stupid in business. Get insurance, get a lawyer and have him write a contract with a damage waiver with notes in it.

Frank, if you don't have any kind of legal contract or insurance then I want to have my friends go to you. Someone that trusting needs to be taught a lesson about how the world works.

That's not really how I feel, but there are people out there who do feel that way. If you are going to go around unprotected then you might as well sleep around, share needles and drink the water. Don't live dangerously just because you think that your trusting nature is going to protect you from Montezuma's Revenge. It wont. Sorry to rain on the parade. I'm a realist and that is the way it is in the real world.
 
If you have a customer that you cannot trust, then they shouldn't be your customer.

Of course, when you lack integrity, confidence, reliability and responsibility for your own actions in the business of detailing, then you will have a greater need to protect yourself from everybody.
 
mirrorfinishman said:
If you have a customer that you cannot trust, then they shouldn't be your customer.

Of course, when you lack integrity, confidence, reliability and responsibility for your own actions in the business of detailing, then you will have a greater need to protect yourself from everybody.
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You don't get my trust just because you have a checkbook and want me to detail your car. My trust isn't for sale. I don't have time to date every one of my customers before I determine if they are trustworthy or not. And if you are implying that any of us lack integrity or confidence, then I seriously suggest you clarify what you just said. Especially if you directed that at me. Just because you are lucky enough to never be taken advantage of doesn't mean the rest of the world should live so wrecklessly. MacDonalds thought they could trust people too until someone spilled coffee on themselves and sued them. People thought they could trust cigarette companies until they started dying from cancer. We thought we could trust the sunshine until people started getting cancer.

Frank, how you have lived this long with that kind of menality is beyond me. I don't mean to be super offensive, but I am just shocked to the core right now. I've never met a 'professional' who didn't suggest getting some legal protection and insurance to back his work. People aren't trustworthy. Its great to be trusting, but there is no reason to be stupid.
 
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