Do they actually hear themselves?

[Ronkh]

Firearms have killed more people in this country since 2001 than all the car accidents, diseases, cancer victims, wars, and drugs combined. Just saw the stat. Those are the facts. There have been 355 mass shootings in the last year. There's only 365 days in a year! Facts are stubborn things.

Do I think strict gun laws will prevent all gun related deaths? No. Like anyone supporting a view, they take the opportunity to exploit to induce change.

Do I think we still need some uniform background checks, etc.? Yes. No law can eliminate them but often laws can reduce them in the same manner we have speeding laws, etc. It will not fix certain types of crimes. However, it will take a cultural shift here to get these in line with other countries.

2015 Shootings (mass shooting tracker web site).
Date Shooter Dead Injured Location
1/1/2015 Unknown 0 5 Memphis, TN
1/2/2015 Unknown 1 4 Savannah, GA
1/4/2015 Unknown 3 1 Dallas, TX
1/4/2015 William Christopher Cabbler 2 4 Roanoke, VA
1/6/2015 Unknown 1 3 Miami, FL
1/7/2015 Cortez Sims 1 3 Chattanooga, TN
1/8/2015 Unknown 1 3 Boston, MA
1/9/2015 Unknown 4 0 San Francisco, CA
1/10/2015 John Lee 3 1 Moscow, ID
1/11/2015 Unknown 0 5 San Jose, CA
1/11/2015 Unknown 2 5 Hope Mills, NC
1/11/2015 Unknown 1 3 Lakeland, FL
1/11/2015 Rishod Shermaine Fields 0 5 Tuskegee, AL
1/12/2015 Unknown 2 2 Wichita, KS
1/13/2015 Unknown 0 5 Portsmouth, VA
1/14/2015 Unknown 2 3 Rockford, IL
1/19/2015 Unknown 2 5 San Antonio, TX
1/20/2015 Timothy David Shoffner 1 3 Clarksville, TN
1/23/2015 Unknown 0 6 Boston, MA
1/24/2015 Unknown 3 5 Omaha, NE
1/24/2015 Jonathon Walker 4 1 Queens, NY
1/26/2015 Unknown 1 4 Stockton, CA
1/28/2015 Unknown 1 3 DeKalb, GA
1/29/2015 Thomas Jessee Lee 5 0 Troup County, GA
2/1/2015 Michael Morris 0 6 Syracuse, NY
2/1/2015 Unknown 1 4 Manhattan, NY
2/4/2015 Unknown 4 0 King, NC
2/5/2015 Unknown 3 3 Warrensville Heights, OH
2/6/2015 Unknown 1 3 Tulsa, OK
2/7/2015 Cedric G. Prather 5 2 Douglasville, GA
2/8/2015 Unknown 0 6 Crockett County, TN
2/9/2015 Christopher Lee Duncan and Dora Delgado 3 1 New Port Richey, FL
2/15/2015 Unknown 0 5 Long Beach, CA
2/17/2015 Unknown 1 3 Little Rock, AR
2/22/2015 Anthony Giaquinta 3 2 Habersham County, GA
2/22/2015 Unknown 0 4 Charleston, SC
2/22/2015 Atase Giffa 4 1 Killeen, TX
2/25/2015 Unknown 3 2 Houston, TX
2/27/2015 Joseph Jesse Aldridge 8 1 Tyrone, MO
2/28/2015 Unknown 1 3 Baltimore, MD
2/28/2015 Ian Sherrod 4 0 Tarboro, NC
2/28/2015 Unknown 3 1 Columbia, MO
3/1/2015 Unknown 0 4 Tangelo Park, FL
3/1/2015 Unknown 1 5 Detroit, MI
3/2/2015 Unknown 1 4 Santa Ana, CA
3/3/2015 Unknown 3 1 Las Vegas, NV
3/4/2015 Unknown 2 5 San Bernadino, CA
3/9/2015 Unknown 1 3 Chicago, IL
3/10/2015 Unknown 0 5 Columbus, GA
3/11/2015 Unknown 0 4 Aurora, IL
3/13/2015 Jimmy Lyons 2 3 Brookhaven, MS
3/14/2015 Unknown 0 5 Atlanta, GA
3/15/2015 Eric Antonio Cannady and Tommy Ray Jackson Jr. 0 4 Lillington, NC
3/15/2015 Christopher Lance Joyner 3 1 Houston County, AL
3/16/2015 Unknown 0 4 Compton, CA
3/17/2015 Unknown 3 4 Stockton, CA
3/18/2015 Unknown 1 5 Mesa, AZ
3/18/2015 Unknown 1 3 Newark, NJ
3/19/2015 Justin Fowler 2 2 Navajo Nation, AZ
3/20/2015 Unknown 0 4 Columbus, MS
3/20/2015 Unknown 0 4 Oklahoma City, OK
3/20/2015 Unknown 0 4 Joliet, IL
3/20/2015 Unknown 1 5 Lancaster, TX
3/21/2015 Unknown 0 4 Ybor City, FL
3/21/2015 Unknown 0 5 Lehigh Acres, FL
3/22/2015 Unknown 1 6 Albuquerque, NM
3/23/2015 Unknown 1 4 Clarksville, TN
3/24/2015 Unknown 4 0 Indianapolis, IN
3/26/2015 Unknown 0 4 Amarillo, TX
3/28/2015 David Jamichael Daniels 0 7 Panama City Beach, FL
3/29/2015 Unknown 0 4 Stockton, CA
3/30/2015 Sudheer Khamitkar 4 0 Tulsa, OK
4/2/2015 Unknown 0 5 Baltimore, MD
4/3/2015 Vincent Tyrone Smith 0 4 Daytona Beach, FL
4/5/2015 Unknown 1 4 Louisville, KY
4/5/2015 Unknown 0 5 Indianapolis, IN
4/7/2015 Unknown 1 3 North Rome, GA
4/16/2015 Unknown 5 0 Phoenix, AZ
4/16/2015 Unknown 1 4 Los Angeles, CA
4/18/2015 Unknown 1 3 Paterson, NJ
4/18/2015 Unknown 0 4 Charlotte, NC
4/18/2015 Unknown 1 3 Lumberton, NC
4/18/2015 Unknown 0 5 Williamsport, PA
4/18/2015 Unknown 0 5 Montgomery, AL
4/19/2015 Unknown 0 4 Richmond, VA
4/21/2015 Unknown 2 3 Killeen, TX
4/25/2015 Unknown 0 4 Trenton, NJ
4/25/2015 David Alligood 1 6 Gates, NY
4/27/2015 Unknown 2 4 Brooklyn, NY
4/27/2015 Unknown 2 2 Gila Bend, AZ
5/1/2015 Unknown 2 3 Milwaukee, WI
5/3/2015 Unknown 4 1 Menasha, WI
5/3/2015 Christopher Lee Accettura 0 4 South Bend, IN
5/3/2015 Unknown 0 6 Houston, TX
5/3/2015 Unknown 1 6 Dayton, OH
5/4/2015 Unknown 0 4 Bronx, NY
5/4/2015 Unknown 1 3 Buffalo, NY
5/7/2015 Unknown 0 4 Cincinnati, OH
5/10/2015 Unknown 0 4 Jersey City, NJ
5/10/2015 Unknown 1 4 Cleveland, OH
5/10/2015 Unknown 1 3 Newark, NJ
5/12/2015 Unknown 1 4 Capitol Heights, MD
5/12/2015 Christopher Carrillo 5 0 Tucson, AZ
5/13/2015 Unknown 4 0 Anchorage, AK
5/16/2015 Unknown 0 5 Milwaukee, WI
5/16/2015 Unknown 0 5 Baltimore, MD
5/16/2015 Unknown 0 4 Rochester, NY
5/17/2015 Unknown 9 18 Waco, TX
5/18/2015 Unknown 1 4 Miami, FL
5/18/2015 Unknown 0 4 Kinloch, MO
5/19/2015 Unknown 1 3 Arlington, VA
5/20/2015 Unknown 1 4 Baltimore, MD
5/23/2015 Unknown 2 2 Fresno, CA
5/24/2015 Unknown 0 4 St. Louis, MO
5/24/2015 Unknown 1 3 Montgomery, AL
5/24/2015 Unknown 0 7 Flint, MI
5/24/2015 Unknown 0 5 Brockton, MA
5/25/2015 Unknown 1 4 Decatur, IL
5/26/2015 Unknown 2 2 New Orleans, LA
5/28/2015 Unknown 0 4 Omaha, NE
5/28/2015 Unknown 1 3 Chester, PA
5/28/2015 Unknown 0 5 Chicago, Il
5/29/2015 Unknown 1 3 Miami, FL
5/30/2015 Unknown 0 4 San Diego, CA
5/30/2015 Unknown 1 3 North Amityville, NY
5/31/2015 Unknown 3 1 Cleveland, OH
5/31/2015 Unknown 1 3 Conyers, GA
5/31/2015 Unknown 1 3 Springdale, MD
5/31/2015 Unknown 0 5 New Haven, CT
6/2/2015 Unknown 0 4 Anniston, AL
6/3/2015 Unknown 3 1 Wyandanch, NY
6/5/2015 Unknown 0 5 Davenport, IA
6/5/2015 Unknown 1 3 New Orleans, LA
6/6/2015 Unknown 0 5 Chicago, IL
6/6/2015 Unknown 1 4 Buffalo, NY
6/7/2015 Michael Augustine Bournes 5 0 Deer Lodge, MT
6/9/2015 Unknown 1 3 St. Louis, MO
6/10/2015 Unknown 1 3 Cincinnati, OH
6/10/2015 Unknown 1 3 Los Angeles, CA
6/11/2015 Unknown 1 8 Bridgeport, CT
6/11/2015 Unknown 1 3 Houston, TX
6/12/2015 Unknown 0 4 Miami, FL
6/13/2015 Patrick Solis & Donald Walters 0 4 Oklahoma City, OK
6/13/2015 Unknown 0 5 Bronx, NY
6/13/2015 Unknown 0 4 Tulsa, OK
6/13/2015 Unknown 4 1 Columbus, OH
6/13/2015 Unknown 0 4 St. Louis, MO
6/13/2015 Unknown 1 4 Fayette County, GA
6/14/2015 Unknown 1 3 Camden, NJ
6/14/2015 Unknown 1 3 Milledgeville, GA
6/15/2015 Unknown 0 4 Brooklyn, NY
6/16/2015 Ivan Clark 0 4 Miami Gardens, FL
6/17/2015 Dylan Roof 9 0 Charleston, SC
6/19/2015 Zackary Alvarado 0 4 Woonsocket, RI
6/20/2015 Unknown 0 10 Philadelphia, PA
6/20/2015 Unknown 1 11 Detroit, MI
6/21/2015 Unknown 0 5 Lexington, KY
6/21/2015 Russell Smith 4 0 Roy, UT
6/22/2015 Unknown 0 7 Philadelphia, PA
6/23/2015 Unknown 1 3 Chicago, IL
6/23/2015 Unknown 3 1 Breaux Bridge, LA
6/24/2015 Unknown 0 4 Manhattan, NY
6/25/2015 Unknown 0 4 New Orleans, LA
6/26/2015 Unknown 0 4 Detroit, MI
6/27/2015 Unknown 4 0 Greenacres, FL
6/27/2015 Roosevelt Holmes 1 3 Hartford, CT
6/27/2015 Unknown 1 3 Taunton, MA
6/28/2015 Unknown 0 6 Harrington, DE
6/28/2015 Unknown 0 5 Detroit, MI
6/28/2015 Unknown 0 6 Venice, IL
6/29/2015 Unknown 0 4 Opa-locka, FL
7/1/2015 Unknown 1 4 Newark, NJ
7/1/2015 Unknown 1 3 Indianapolis, IN
7/3/2015 Unknown 2 2 Philadelphia, PA
7/4/2015 Unknown 1 3 Washington, D.C.
7/4/2015 Unknown 1 4 Pittsfield, MA
7/4/2015 Unknown 0 4 San Antonio, TX
7/4/2015 Unknown 0 4 Syracuse, NY
7/5/2015 Unknown 0 9 Fort Wayne, IN
7/5/2015 Unknown 0 8 Shreveport, LA
7/5/2015 Unknown 4 0 Rock Hill, SC
7/5/2015 Unknown 1 3 East Orange, NJ
7/7/2015 Unknown 3 1 Baltimore, MD
7/12/2015 Unknown 0 4 Jersey City, NJ
7/12/2015 Unknown 2 3 River Forest, IL
7/12/2015 Marquiles Whaley 3 1 Baton Rouge, LA
7/13/2015 Unknown 1 4 Stockton, CA
7/14/2015 Unknown 0 4 St. Louis, MO
7/15/2015 Unknown 1 3 Baltimore, MD
7/15/2015 Unknown 4 1 Holly Hill, SC
7/15/2015 Unknown 0 7 Cleaveland, OH
7/15/2015 Unknown 0 4 Detroit, MI
7/15/2015 Unknown 0 5 Atlanta, GA
7/16/2015 Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez 5 3 Chattanooga, TN
7/16/2015 Unknown 0 4 Dallas, TX
7/17/2015 Clement Dwight Cooper and Michael Antonio Long 1 5 Columbus, OH
7/17/2015 Unknown 0 4 Cincinnati, OH
7/17/2015 Anthony Lord 2 4 Aroostook County, ME
7/17/2015 Unknown 1 3 Washington, DC
7/17/2015 Unknown 0 5 Chicago, IL
7/18/2015 Unknown 2 2 Baton Rouge, LA
7/18/2015 Unknown 1 3 Salem, OR
7/19/2015 Unknown 0 6 Louisville, KY
7/19/2015 Unknown 0 4 Suffolk, VA
7/20/2015 Unknown 0 5 Bronx, NY
7/21/2015 Unknown 1 3 Miami Gardens, FL
7/22/2015 Unknown 4 1 Forsyth County, GA
7/23/2015 John Russell Houser 3 9 Lafayette, LA
7/25/2015 Unknown 2 4 Erie, PA
7/25/2015 William Timothy Faust 0 4 Hopewell, VA
7/26/2015 Unknown 0 5 Indianapolis, IN
7/26/2015 Unknown 2 3 Kansas City, MO
7/26/2015 Unknown 0 4 New Orleans, LA
7/27/2015 Unknown 0 5 Rockford, IL
7/28/2015 Harley Wilder 2 2 West Frankfort, IL
7/30/2015 Unknown 0 4 Pittsburgh, PA
8/1/2015 Unknown 0 4 Orlando, FL
8/2/2015 Unknown 1 4 Chicago, IL
8/2/2015 Unknown 0 9 Brooklyn, NY
8/2/2015 Unknown 0 5 Savannah, GA
8/2/2015 Unknown 0 7 Baltimore, MD
8/3/2015 Unknown 0 5 Brooklyn, NY
8/4/2015 Unknown 1 4 St. Louis, MO
8/6/2015 Unknown 0 4 Columbia, SC
8/7/2015 Jody Herring 4 0 Barre, VT
8/8/2015 Unknown 2 3 Gastonia, NC
8/8/2015 Unknown 1 11 Blytheville, AR
8/8/2015 David Conley 8 0 Houston, TX
8/9/2015 Unknown 1 3 Forest, MS
8/9/2015 Unknown 1 3 Detroit, MI
8/10/2015 Unknown 0 4 Long Beach, CA
8/15/2015 Unknown 1 3 Pittsburgh, PA
8/15/2015 Unknown 1 3 Orangeburg, SC
8/15/2015 Unknown 0 4 Los Angeles, CA
8/16/2015 Unknown 1 3 Miami, FL
8/16/2015 Unknown 0 6 Fort Worth, TX
8/16/2015 Unknown 0 5 Bennettsville, SC
8/16/2015 Unknown 0 4 Chicago, IL
8/19/2015 Unknown 3 4 Rochester, NY
8/20/2015 Unknown 2 2 Starr County, TX
8/21/2015 Unknown 0 8 Durham, NC
8/21/2015 Unknown 3 1 Roswell, NM
8/21/2015 Unknown 2 5 Cincinnati, OH
8/21/2015 Unknown 0 4 Pine Hills, FL
8/22/2015 Unknown 1 7 Modesto, CA
8/25/2015 Unknown 1 3 New Orleans, LA
8/26/2015 Unknown 0 4 Brooklyn Center, MN
8/26/2015 Vester Flanagan (aka Bryce Williams) 3 1 Moneta, VA
8/26/2015 Unknown 2 2 West Palm Beach, FL
8/26/2015 Unknown 1 3 Chicago, IL
8/27/2015 Unknown 2 2 Salinas, CA
8/28/2015 Unknown 1 3 Brooklyn, NY
8/29/2015 Unknown 1 3 Smith County, TX
8/29/2015 Robert Seth Denton 3 2 Bristol, TN
8/29/2015 Unknown 0 4 Macon, GA
8/30/2015 Unknown 1 4 Memphis, TN
8/30/2015 Unknown 0 4 Muskegon Heights, MI
9/1/2015 Lyndon Beharry 4 0 Long Branch, NJ
9/5/2015 Unknown 1 3 Charlotte, NC
9/5/2015 Unknown 0 4 Columbus, MO
9/5/2015 Unknown 0 4 Daytona Beach, FL
9/5/2015 Unknown 1 3 Las Vegas, NV
9/7/2015 Unknown 0 4 Denver, CO
9/7/2015 Unknown 0 5 Washington, DC
9/8/2015 Brian Short 5 0 Minneapolis, MN
9/8/2015 Unkown 0 4 Chicago, IL
9/8/2015 Unknown 4 0 Manson, WA
9/11/2015 Unknown 0 5 Charlotte, NC
9/12/2015 Unknown 1 3 Minneapolis, MN
9/12/2015 Undisclosed 0 6 Minneapolis, MN
9/12/2015 Unknown 2 4 Rochester, NY
9/12/2015 Unknown 0 4 Shreveport, LA
9/13/2015 Unknown 1 5 Ocala, FL
9/13/2015 Unknown 2 2 Los Chavez, NM
9/13/2015 Rodney Chemin 4 0 Baker, LA
9/15/2015 Unknown 0 4 Newark, NJ
9/17/2015 Undisclosed 0 4 Albion, MI
9/17/2015 Scott Westerhuis 6 0 Platte, SD
9/19/2015 Unknown 1 3 Indianapolis, IN
9/20/2015 Unknown 1 5 Chicago, IL
9/20/2015 Unknown 0 6 Tulsa, OK
9/21/2015 Undisclosed 2 2 Sand City, CA
9/21/2015 Unknown 1 3 Philadelphia, PA
9/23/2015 Unknown 0 4 Fort Meyers, FL
9/23/2015 Unknown 1 3 Norcross, GA
9/23/2015 Unknown 0 5 Shreveport, LA
9/24/2015 Unknown 0 5 Chicago, IL
9/25/2015 Unknown 0 4 Danville, IL
9/26/2015 James Diaz 2 2 Banning, CA
9/27/2015 Unknown 0 4 Kansas City, MO
9/27/2015 Unknown 0 10 Greenville, GA
9/28/2015 Unknown 2 3 Chicago, IL
9/28/2015 Unknown 0 5 Cincinnati, OH
9/28/2015 Unknown 0 4 Dayton, OH
9/29/2015 Unknown 3 2 Chicago, IL
10/1/2015 Chris Harper-Mercer 10 7 Roseburg, OR
10/2/2015 Undisclosed 1 4 Baltimore, MD
10/2/2015 Walter A. Tyson 3 1 Inglis, FL
10/6/2015 Unknown 0 5 Baltimore, MD
10/9/2015 Steven Jones 1 3 Flagstaff, AZ
10/10/2015 Unknown 1 3 Peoria, IL
10/10/2015 Unknown 0 4 Charlotte, NC
10/10/2015 Unknown 0 5 Memphis, TN
10/12/2015 Unknown 0 4 DeKalb County, GA
10/17/2015 Unknown 0 4 Elkhart, IN
10/17/2015 Unknown 1 4 Fort Meyers, FL
10/18/2015 Unknown 0 4 New Orleans, LA
10/19/2015 Unknown 0 7 Calumet City, IL
10/23/2015 Unknown 1 3 Nashville, TN
10/24/2015 Unknown 0 4 Bamberg, SC
10/25/2015 Unknown 0 5 Washington, DC
10/25/2015 Unknown 1 4 Pheonix, AZ
10/25/2015 Unknown 0 5 Four Oaks, NC
10/25/2015 Rashawn Little 2 2 Pageland, SC
10/26/2015 Marquell Maurice Jackson, Corey James Cain, Diego Thomas 0 5 Evansville, IN
10/27/2015 Unknown 0 5 Fort Worth, TX
10/28/2015 Elward Williams, Anthony Sylvester 1 3 Houma, LA
10/31/2015 Undisclosed 4 0 Colorado Springs, CO
11/1/2015 Unknown 4 0 Pendleton, SC
11/3/2015 Unknown 1 3 Jacksonville, FL
11/3/2015 John Howell 2 2 Harris County, TX
11/4/2015 Herman Derico 4 0 Oakland, ME
11/6/2015 Unknown 0 4 Tallahassee, FL
11/6/2015 Darius Ratcliff 1 3 Denver, CO
11/6/2015 Unknown 0 4 Bakersfield, CA
11/8/2015 Unknown 1 3 Des Moines, IA
11/8/2015 Unknown 0 4 Warren, MI
11/9/2015 Unknown 2 2 Indianapolis, IN
11/13/2015 Gawain Rushane Wilson 4 1 Jacksonville, FL
11/14/2015 John Revels 3 2 Los Angeles, CA
11/14/2015 Unknown 0 5 Johnstown, PA
11/15/2015 Unknown 0 4 Philadelphia, PA
11/15/2015 William Hudson 6 0 Anderson County, TX
11/16/2015 Donnie Lee Abernathy 3 1 Round Mountain, AL
11/16/2015 Daniel Harris 1 5 Youngstown, OH
11/17/2015 Pascasio Arellano 4 0 Murray, KY
11/18/2015 Unknown 5 0 Fresno, CA
11/20/2015 Unknown 1 3 Pittsburgh, PA
11/21/2015 Unknown 1 3 Baltimore, MD
11/22/2015 Unknown 0 5 Newburgh, NY
11/22/2015 Unknown 0 5 Seattle, WA
11/22/2015 Unknown 0 4 Chicago, IL
11/22/2015 Marcos Antonio Hernandez 0 4 Brownsville, TX
11/22/2015 Unknown 0 17 New Orleans, LA
11/23/2015 Allen Lawrence Scarsella, Nathan Gustavsson, Daniel Macey, and Joseph Backman 0 5 Minneapolis, MN
11/23/2015 Barry Kirk 4 1 Columbus, OH
11/23/2015 Undisclosed 1 3 Houston, TX
11/24/2015 Undisclosed 0 4 Conway, SC
11/26/2015 Unknown 1 3 Boston, MA
11/27/2015 Unknown 2 2 Sacramento, CA
11/27/2015 Robert Lewis Dear 3 9 Colorado Springs, CO
12/2/2015 Unknown 1 3 Savannah, GA
12/2/2015 Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik 14 17 San Bernardino, CA

Media's Mass Shooting Count Misleading | National Review Online

 

[Accumulator]

http://www.autopia.org/forums/hot-tub/183161-discuss-worthy-own-thread.html

Heh heh...I dunno. I couldn't help but do that post on the previous page of this thread, but IMO people who discuss Gun Control (and some other topics I can think of) on internet forums aren't gonna change anybody's position on the topic.

So, I think I'll leave my participation in this topic where I left it in that earlier post.

 

[4u2nvinmtl]

Gun control doesn't work because people who want guns badly enough can *always* get them, just as people can *always* get *anything* if it exists and they want it badly enough. Making something (let alone something as commonplace as firearms are in this country) illegal only deters casual acquirers, not the determined.

If conventional sources were unavailable, people with no compunctions against breaking laws could steal them (e.g., from [the State] ) or even make them from scratch (which isn't very difficult). Bad people will always be able to get guns; always have, always will. That Genie is already out of the bottle.

^ With that logic ranchers shouldn't put up fences because cows always get out. Thankfully that's not how it works (the fence keeps in most of the cows so its worth it).

There's no denying that if someone wants something bad enough they will get it but at the same time theirs a reason we all have locks on our doors and why we use them. Not doing something won't bring about change or improvement...

I'll use locks on doors as an analogy to gun control. No gun control is like a door without a lock on private property, everyone from curious kids to senile old men will come in and trespass, but the simple act of putting a lock and then locking the door will prevent 95% of unwanted trespassers (only the very determined will actually break and enter). It's basically the same thing with gun control (the crime rate drops when you lock the doors on the guns). Take a look at statistics from other countries that have done this, such as Australia (a British colony of cons that were exiled).

I get your point that gun control will never work 100% but clear it does work to some significant degree or other countries wouldn't haven't such strict gun control laws, would they? (rhetorical question)

 

[4u2nvinmtl]

I have yet to hear one good argument against gun control.

...like hunting or to scare off wildlife (wolfs and bears)

 

[GearHead_1]

Ehhh... I suspect there is nothing that might be said that will make anyone on either side change their minds, regardless of where you stand when you voice your opinion. It's an argument that has the same kind of roots as religion/s, you get it or you don't or perhaps the arguement of wax, sealant or coating. I am a bit curious about the rather emphatic nature of your aruguement. Is this the Canadian or the American speaking.

 

[Stokdgs]

Oh come on, America is not the only country in the world. Go to other places where guns are prohibited (like anywhere in Europe) and see if they were mowed down by jihadists (that could have been prevented by civilian gun owners). You're just being silly, or their fear campaign has gotten to you...

How many jihadists have been stopped by civilian gun owners (I doubt there's a figure)?

Ever think about why they hate America so much, we've done terrible things to them too... They are just fighting with the means they have. I'm not trying to justify by any means, but it's important to put yourself in their shoes (not an easy thing to do). Your hatred of them will never bring about a resolution just more bloodshed (the very thing I think you're trying to avoid). You also refuse to accept any possible resolution accept war (sounds just like a Jihad to me).

My Friend,

Go to other places where guns are prohibited (like anywhere in Europe) and see if they were mowed down by jihadists (that could have been prevented by civilian gun owners). You're just being silly, or their fear campaign has gotten to you...

Lets see - Charlie Hebdo, and the recent attack at the concert in Paris come to mind where innocent people were mowed down by jihadists...

And Yeah, I think that if citizens were carrying, it may have turned out differently... And maybe Im in the minority, and maybe Im not...
I dont really care either way... I am NOT going to lay down like a sheep and let this happen to me, thank you..

And telling me "I'm being silly, their fear campaign has gotten to me", how do you know so much about me that you can say that ???
I am really too old and wise now to be silly about something like this, and yeah, for the same reasons, nothing really scares me either...

And my hatred of them ??? Really ??? You really dont know me if you think I hate anyone...


Ever think about why they hate America so much, we've done terrible things to them too... -- Its their Mission to remove all Infidels from the Earth, last I read... It has been their Mission to not allow Women to even have a place in society higher than a pack animal, it has been their practice to hide behind women and children, when under fire, no ?

Sonny boy, you must never accuse me of wanting to start a jihad like what is happening to the world, - ever - again - are we clear???
Dan F

 

[House of Wax]

Ehhh... I suspect there is nothing that might be said that will make anyone on either side change their minds, regardless of where you stand when you voice your opinion. It's an argument that has the same kind of roots as religion/s, you get it or you don't or perhaps the arguement of wax, sealant or coating. I am a bit curious about the rather emphatic nature of your aruguement. Is this the Canadian or the American speaking.

Pretty much this.

As soon as we make a shift to punishing violent criminals to the fullest extent of the law, completely eradicate the gang problems that infest America's cities, and have deported all terrorist threats I'll begin to entertain gun control. Until then.....

 

[House of Wax]

And telling me "I'm being silly, their fear campaign has gotten to me", how do you know so much about me that you can say that ???
I am really too old and wise now to be silly about something like this, and yeah, for the same reasons, nothing really scares me either...

This thought process that somehow being prepared to defend yourself and/or your family somehow = constantly being "afraid" has always been lost on me.

 

[4u2nvinmtl]

Ehhh... I suspect there is nothing that might be said that will make anyone on either side change their minds, regardless of where you stand when you voice your opinion. It's an argument that has the same kind of roots as religion/s, you get it or you don't or perhaps the arguement of wax, sealant or coating. I am a bit curious about the rather emphatic nature of your aruguement. Is this the Canadian or the American speaking.

The Humanitarian, we're all on this big ball of wax together let's make the best of it.

Like I said there once was a time where I was totally-pro-gun (I can still shot a can in mid-air without aiming down the sights), and I couldn't see the other side of that coin until I traveled and lived abroad. Life without guns is fine, take my word for it

 

[4u2nvinmtl]

My Friend,

Go to other places where guns are prohibited (like anywhere in Europe) and see if they were mowed down by jihadists (that could have been prevented by civilian gun owners). You're just being silly, or their fear campaign has gotten to you...

Lets see - Charlie Hebdo, and the recent attack at the concert in Paris come to mind where innocent people were mowed down by jihadists...

And Yeah, I think that if citizens were carrying, it may have turned out differently... And maybe Im in the minority, and maybe Im not...
I dont really care either way... I am NOT going to lay down like a sheep and let this happen to me, thank you..

And telling me "I'm being silly, their fear campaign has gotten to me", how do you know so much about me that you can say that ???
I am really too old and wise now to be silly about something like this, and yeah, for the same reasons, nothing really scares me either...

And my hatred of them ??? Really ??? You really dont know me if you think I hate anyone...


Ever think about why they hate America so much, we've done terrible things to them too... -- Its their Mission to remove all Infidels from the Earth, last I read... It has been their Mission to not allow Women to even have a place in society higher than a pack animal, it has been their practice to hide behind women and children, when under fire, no ?

Sonny boy, you must never accuse me of wanting to start a jihad like what is happening to the world, - ever - again - are we clear???
Dan F

I apologize formally. Your right I don't know you I was just interpreting what you said. I'd answer you questions, but I don't want to cause any conflict between you and I that's not my goal or my intent.

I shouldnt have ever used something personal to make my point, clearly it doesnt work and it's disrespectful.

Sorry Dan.

 

[davidc]

The Humanitarian, we're all on this big ball of wax together let's make the best of it.

Like I said there once was a time where I was totally-pro-gun (I can still shot a can in mid-air without aiming down the sights), and I couldn't see the other side of that coin until I traveled and lived abroad. Life without guns is fine, take my word for it

I will take your word for it, I am keeping mine thank you.

Dave

 

[GearHead_1]

The Humanitarian, we're all on this big ball of wax together let's make the best of it.

Like I said there once was a time where I was totally-pro-gun (I can still shot a can in mid-air without aiming down the sights), and I couldn't see the other side of that coin until I traveled and lived abroad. Life without guns is fine, take my word for it

Ahhh... I mean no offense but I believe you assume too much. Simply because you have arrived at certain conclusions based on your experiences, does not mean others would come to the same conclusion even had they experienced the same things. Saying this assumes that others who have done as you have and don't see things the way you do are in error or that one experience carries more weight to all peope than the next. There are many that live in the parts of the world to which you refer that wish they had this very freedom of which you speak.

I would not expect you to take my word for it based on my experiences. Ones experiences don't insure wisdom, if this were so, there would be few repeat offenders in prisons. I would never "take someone's word for it" on anything of significance in my life. It's important I arrive wherever I land because of my experiences. I have on this very issue. I suspect there are others who have traveled widely that would disagree with the mindset that is yours or mine for that matter. This said, I would never brow beat anyone into viewing things the way I do. Only through patience, example, conversations, long suffering and gentle persuasion might I hope to change someone's deep rooted opinions.

 

[Stokdgs]

I apologize formally. Your right I don't know you I was just interpreting what you said. I'd answer you questions, but I don't want to cause any conflict between you and I that's not my goal or my intent.

I shouldnt have ever used something personal to make my point, clearly it doesnt work.

FYI: the word jihād is a noun meaning "to strive, to apply oneself, to struggle, to persevere"...

Sorry Dan.

My Friend,
Your apology is accepted and I am happy that there is no ill will between us..

You must know how I feel about you and that I would not hesitate to come to your aid or for that matter, anyone else..

I would so LOVE to be in a place where there is no need for defending one's life/loved one's lives, etc.., but unfortunately, for now, it looks like something not so good may be coming down the road..

Perhaps more people need to reach out as neighbors, friends, new friends, co-workers, and on, and just band together to take care of each other - all the time, not just now...

Best,
Dan F

 

[Bunky]

Media's Mass Shooting Count Misleading | National Review Online

From what I read they do not dispute the raw numbers themselves but just interpreting the results. It is a statement of mass shootings (not necessarily from terror but domestic issues, etc). My point was there are a lot of mass shooting incidents. People kill lots of people (more than one shot/killed at a time) and we almost accept it - meaning take no overt action other than say buy a gun. Anti-gun people want to ban guns which can reduce killings but it is more a country mental health issue.

 

[Ronkh]

From what I read they do not dispute the raw numbers themselves but just interpreting the results. It is a statement of mass shootings (not necessarily from terror but domestic issues, etc). My point was there are a lot of mass shooting incidents. People kill lots of people (more than one shot/killed at a time) and we almost accept it - meaning take no overt action other than say buy a gun. Anti-gun people want to ban guns which can reduce killings but it is more a country mental health issue.

Only hear about ti when someone has an agenda to push.

How many were shot in Chicago last week? Baltimore? Any other city with "strong common sense gun laws (and a democrat in executive office for years)

 

[Accumulator]

Ehhh... I suspect there is nothing that might be said that will make anyone on either side change their minds, regardless of where you stand when you voice your opinion.

And so..

[Original post deleted]

BUT...

I have yet to hear one good argument against gun control.

...like hunting or to scare off wildlife (wolfs and bears)

I will say that rabid animals and (non-human) predators that don't fear people are kinda hard to deal with when you're unarmed. (Yeah, I do know from Bear Spray.) Kinda hard to deal with even when properly armed for that matter, but at least it's not so one-sided.

 

[mnehls86]

Wait, so now the terrorists are Mexican's Cartels that sell drugs to Americans?

Nope. I am talking actual terrorist's using are border as a weak point to gain access to the country.

If you're not happy where you live I'd move. What is your solution for San Bernadino? Unfortunately, I'm unfamiliar with San Bernadino's crime problems but there must be a root cause (I.e. lack of drugs, main distribution point for the cartel, fights over water, I honestly don't know).

Again. Not that easy for most people. I'm working hard on making that happen but I see your unboxing's and vehicle modifications I can easily say you are in a much better financial place than myself. There are many problems with San Bernardino but one of the big ones is a lot of Los Angeles gangs are now moving out here and bringing the drugs and violence with them and San Bernardino is constantly expanding the Section 8 program.

To me it looks like your city has a major drug problem. Assuming the root cause of the crime is drugs, how will owning a gun stop drug users and dealers? I don't see how the gun is going to help the crime rate, it's only going to add to the problem and the fear issue (can't fight crime with violence, it will only continue to esclate).

Owning a gun is not about stopping drug users or dealers. It's for the cracked out/ tweaked out or just down right evil that comes through your door or window. My parents never owned a gun or even had a baseball bat by any of the doors and I asked my dad recently what he would have done if someone broke in and tried to harm us and his response was "I had never even considered that happening". Now me, my families safety comes first and I will do anything I can to protect them. Again, how many crimes are prevented by cops? vs how many crimes do they report to? It took over 2 hours to get a cop to our house when it was robbed. Trust me, I wish I could live in a place as nice as you and feel safe 24/7 but you need to realize that not everywhere is the same as where you are.

 

[davidc]

Nope. I am talking actual terrorist's using are border as a weak point to gain access to the country.


Again. Not that easy for most people. I'm working hard on making that happen but I see your unboxing's and vehicle modifications I can easily say you are in a much better financial place than myself. There are many problems with San Bernardino but one of the big ones is a lot of Los Angeles gangs are now moving out here and bringing the drugs and violence with them and San Bernardino is constantly expanding the Section 8 program.


Owning a gun is not about stopping drug users or dealers. It's for the cracked out/ tweaked out or just down right evil that comes through your door or window. My parents never owned a gun or even had a baseball bat by any of the doors and I asked my dad recently what he would have done if someone broke in and tried to harm us and his response was "I had never even considered that happening". Now me, my families safety comes first and I will do anything I can to protect them. Again, how many crimes are prevented by cops? vs how many crimes do they report to? It took over 2 hours to get a cop to our house when it was robbed. Trust me, I wish I could live in a place as nice as you and feel safe 24/7 but you need to realize that not everywhere is the same as where you are.

Dave

 

[Accumulator]

..Now me, my families safety comes first and I will do anything I can to protect them. Again, how many crimes are prevented by cops?...

I live in what most would consider a very safe area, a peaceful upscale neighborhood where many of us have some acreage. But we still have burglaries and armed robberies, and we also have some home invasions (maybe one or two every year or so) during which the residents are sometimes all killed. Just had one happen a couple miles from us a little while ago. Perps were three seriously bad guys (not drug users, they were too professional for that kind of handicap) from out of town who purposefully traveled here just to do the job (I suspect the resident's kid might've talked about the wrong stuff to the wrong people).


My wife and I have both confronted trespassers who were obviously casing our place for nefarious purposes (you should hear the BS stories about why there're there!). We've also called in about suspicious vehicles parked where they shouldn't be and/or crusing the neighborhood repeatedly at odd hours, but there isn't always time to call the PD lest the [suspicious individuals] slip away (perhaps to come back later..). We're sure not imagining that we're potential victims, it's obvious, and there's a file at the local PD documenting it.


Local LE has explicitly stated that they're glad my wife and I are prepared for such incidents ("you two are a good couple to own this property.." ) and they readily admit that there's nothing they can do to protect us, it's up to *us* to protect ourselves.

 

[The Driver]

If a storm destroys your house on the beach, are you going to rebuild it the same way or storm proof it?

The definition of insanity comes to mind, for all you who don't know, I urge you to google it.