do i need AIO with this setup?

I

integraoligist

New member
Here is the setup i'm trying to figure out:



1. Clay: Auto Wax Company - Clay Magic Detailing Kit



2. Polish: Meguiers - #2 Fine Cut Cleaner

(need to take out swirls and level chip-touch-up's)



3. Polish & Sealent: Klasse All-In-One

or

3. Sealent: Klasse Sealent



4. Wax: #98 Medallion Premium Paint Protection OR NXT Tech Wax OR FK1 Pink (havent figured out which one yet)







because i'm using the Meguiers #2, do i still go over it with AIO? or do i go right to the Klasse Sealent? OR can i just use the AIO as the Sealent as well?



i was planning on Layering as well, and hear that you should usually... Seal then wax.. then seal then wax... over and over again. correct?



Thanks all!
 
I would personally use both AIO and SG. Also once you put your Wax on, SG won't like it if you try to seal again. So I would go SGx3 (at least 12 hours apart) and then top with as many layers of wax as you like.
 
#2 is pretty aggressive stuff - I don't mean to judge, but based on your level of experience, I'd go for something a little more user-friendly, like #83 DACP followed by #80.



From there on in, you have two choices. The #80 is going to leave a ton of oils behind, which leave the paint looking wetter, and IMHO better. Personally, I'd go straight to FK1 Pink, I love the stuff, and just layer Pink Wax until you feel like stripping it all the way down :).



Your other pick is going Klasse Twins, using AIO which will remove all of the oils from #80 (NOT a good thing, IMHO), and then Klasse Sealant Glazing as many times as you like. Once you top KSG with a wax, however, you will not be able to layer it any more until you AIO again. Its very picky about what it wants to bond to, which is why I avoid the stuff for the most part.



Your layering choices are basically



Choice 1 (not my fave, might be good on a light car)

AIO

Klasse Sealant Glaze ad infinitum (I'd reccomend atleast 3)



Choice 2 (my fave, espicially on black)

FK1 Pink as often as you'd like



Choice 3 (middle of the road, a good compromise)

AIO

KSG until satisfied

then FK1 Pink as desired



You will not be able to seal over #2 or #3 again until you AIO it. I personally am not very pro-sealant, I only use them occasionally, and only on light cars. I'd pretty much reccomend against the NXT or #98, I feel theyre inferior to KSG and FK1 Pink. Everyones got their own opinion, however.
 
Leveling chip touch ups is something you do with wetsanding, usually 500 grit using a hole punch and the dot glued to the eraser on a pencil, then 1000, 1500 and 2000 grit and then buffed. I agree on the #2, that's rotary buffer heavy duty stuff, use the least aggresive product that will do the job, if Meg's #80 works, use that, if not go to Meg's #83 and work your way up or you will wear away at the clear coat and it won't last as long. I've seen heavily swirled cars brought back to near perfect with just #80 although I don't have the patience so I go straight for #83. By reducing the thickness of the clear coat you are removing the UV inhibitors that are part of the clear coat making the car get duller looking sooner.



What I like to do after buffing to add the oils back in and get that deep shine is to use Meg's #7 and then 2 coats of NXT tech wax or any good wax over that.



To me, clay is optional if you are going to rotary buff anyway since it will remove all the contaminants in the paint better than clay anyway. Clay is what I do when I don't want to buff but want to clean the paint.
 
integraoligist said:
Here is the setup i'm trying to figure out:



1. Clay: Auto Wax Company - Clay Magic Detailing Kit



2. Polish: Meguiers - #2 Fine Cut Cleaner

(need to take out swirls and level chip-touch-up's)



3. Polish & Sealent: Klasse All-In-One

or

3. Sealent: Klasse Sealent



4. Wax: #98 Medallion Premium Paint Protection OR NXT Tech Wax OR FK1 Pink (havent figured out which one yet)







because i'm using the Meguiers #2, do i still go over it with AIO? or do i go right to the Klasse Sealent? OR can i just use the AIO as the Sealent as well?



i was planning on Layering as well, and hear that you should usually... Seal then wax.. then seal then wax... over and over again. correct?



Thanks all!
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Topping SG with #98 or NXT is not something I would recommend. They both contain cleaners and will remove some if not all of the SG. Use a non cleaning product and wait at least 24 hours before topping.



It's not seal than wax...then seal and wax over and over again. It's more like seal and seal and seal until you have the amount you want than wax. Once you wax your sealing is over. If you want to apply sealant again you need to start over.
 
i'm workin on a Black '97 (as seen in my avatar) and the paint has never been cleaned.



so the swirls marks and blemishs are heavy... thats why i thought the #2 on the PC would be good:xyxthumbs ,,, i didnt know it was way to harsh. i'll switch it over to Meg #80 and use on the PC...



themightytimmah , why do you NOT like Sealing on Black cars?



buellwinkle , i will be wetsanding with 2000 grit to level the paint out... as for buffing, is the #80 on the PC used for that as well?





stevet , what is the purpose of layering the Sealent instead of the wax? i hear it protects the paint... while the Wax creates a deeper and richer look to the paint... is that true? i've even heard of a lot of guys not using Wax, just layering the SG.





btw, do you all agree with buellwinkle about the clay? seeing as though i'll be useing Meg #80, should i still clay before hand?
 
integraoligist said:


buellwinkle , i will be wetsanding with 2000 grit to level the paint out... as for buffing, is the #80 on the PC used for that as well?
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I've seen Mike Phillips work a 96 Mercedes E320 that was very heavily swirled by the body shop that painted it and a 2002 Mercedes C240 Black that heavily swirled and he brought them both back with just #80 and their medium cut pad.



Here's a picture of the green car where he did half the hood. Notice the deep marring and swirling on the left. This is just with #80
 

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Here's the black car, pretty heavily swirled left side and buff on the right and it looks really good after #80, almost looks like a different shade of black. Keep in mind the goal shouldn't be 100% swirl free or you will drive yourself crazy, it should appear 100% swirl free to most people. I learned from experience on a black suburban we owned years back, I actually polished it down to the primer and had to get the hood repainted.
 

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integraoligist - Sealing a black car can make flaws jump out at you. Unless you can get it nearly perfect and then keep it that way, I'd just use a fillers/glaze/wax approach. Something kinda aggressive followed by the #80 topped with wax oughta look good.



You're right about the wax/sealant differences. I use KSG (untopped) on one of our vehicles, but it's marring-free and stays that way. On our imperfect vehicles I use wax. Can you layer wax? I'm not gonna go there, people get all opinionated about this topic...but try it and see if *you* like it ;) FWIW, some sealants definitely layer. FWIW#2, I sure like the "wax look" better than the "sealant look" on black.



There's a *new* version of #2 out that would be great for this, but it's not widely available yet and you don't want to use the older version.



I'd follow the 2K grit paper with 3K. FWIW, I've *never* needed anything stronger than 2.5K grit and I usually only use the 3K. Takes a little longer but it's a lot safer than the coarse stuff. 3K scratches polish out fairly easily.



Do the claying first. It'll remove contaminants that are best dealt with that way as opposed to with the abrasives in polishes.
 
ok, heres an update on the list... with a few more questions:





1. Clay: Auto Wax Company - Clay Magic Detailing Kit



2. Polish: Meguiar’s - #80 Professional Speed Glaze



3. Fill chips and scratches with touch-up paint, then sand via 2500 or 3000 grit (whichever i can find)



4. Buff sanded areas:[b/] how do i buff?



5. Wax: FK1 Pink







How do i "buff" the sanded areas? should i switch #2 and #3, fill the chips then Buff using the Meg #80?





Accumulator , so far i've only been able to find 2000 grit locally (Pepboys)... when i order my supplies on-line i will attempt to find 2500 or 3000... i'd like to go with 3k like you said just for safty sake.



buellwinkle, the pic of the black car looks great... all they used was the #80 on it? didnt wax it or anything before they took the pic? diffrence is like night and day.





MDRX8, FK1 Pink is a wax... take a look here:

http://www.fk1usa.com/products-consumer.htm

it's 2/3 the way down the page called "Pink Wax - Easy Paste Wax"
 
integraoligist said:


stevet , what is the purpose of layering the Sealent instead of the wax? i hear it protects the paint... while the Wax creates a deeper and richer look to the paint... is that true? i've even heard of a lot of guys not using Wax, just layering the SG.
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The way you worded it in your first post it sounded like you wanted to apply sealant than wax and then sealant and then wax again over and over. This will not work. Sealants don't do well over waxes. Thats why I suggested applying as many layers of sealant as you want and then topping with wax.
 
There is nothing wrong with the original plan of using #2 as a polish to remove scratches and swrils, but you will need to follow up with #9 to remove the buffer marks. As far as touching up the paint do it after you wash and clay. You might want to spray the touch area with a alcohol and water mixture to remove any oil so the paint will stick. Then wait for the paint to dry and wetsand the areas as needed. After that is when I would start polishing the paint. #80 is not strong enough to remove sand marks, so you're better off with your original plan of #2. After than do a follow up polish with #9 or #80 then you are ready for a sealant or wax. Of your original plan to top off the sealant the only one that will add any real depth and shine over the sealant is the Pink wax. Medalion and NXT has cleaners in them and also will probably not improve the looks of SG.
 
ok, updated:



1. Wash



2. Clay: Auto Wax Company - Clay Magic Detailing Kit



3. Fill chips and scratches with touch-up paint, then sand via 2500 or 3000 grit (whichever i can find)



4. Wash



5. Polish & Buff: Meguiar’s - #80 Professional Speed Glaze (or #2 Fine Cut... see below)



6. Wax: FK1 Pink







jetskie , you say to use Meg #2 to buff out the scratches from the 3000Grit sandpaper and swirl marks then go over again with #9... i.e. #80 is not strong enough...



however, themightytimmah and buellwinkle say it's too strong, and go with the #80



Note, i do plan on using the PC to apply the #80 or #2... would the #2 be way to abbrasive on the PC? are you referring to the #2 by-hand?
 
#80 is more agressive than #9. You want to use #2 to remove the sand marks from wet sanding as #80 is not strong enough to remove the sand marks. #2 does leave behind some buffer marks/hazing so you have to follow up with #80 or #9 to remove thoes marks. #2 is not way too agressive, but it is harder to work with compared to #83. Both are about the same in abrassiveness, but #83 has more polishing oil and might break down faster. In general #83 leaves behind a finish that is more ready for waxing. The reason why I mention #2 and #9 is that they are more readily available at a parts store. #83 and #80 must be bought at a auto paint store. They reason to use #80 is that it is a good swril remover and mild enough to use every 6 months. I just don't think it works on sand marks. #2 is suppose to be used by a rotary, but Meguiars recently changed the formula to work with a PC. If you look at Meguiarsonline there has been some people who used the old formula with a PC with no problems. I find #2 works, but you must follow it up with an other polish to remove the hazing. #83 would be the better choice, but its harder to find locally.
 
well, i'm actually getting a big list of products togeather to buy on-line... so it really dosent matter if it's local or not.



so your pretty much saying that Meg #83 is a mix between #2 and #80? #83 is harsh enough (like #2) to take off the heavy 3000grit paper scratches but then polishs down to a fine buff like #80



would the #83 still be good to use every 6 months as a cleaner before the Fk1 Wax?
 
#83 has diminishing abrasives that dissolve as you use it so it's safer, #2 is about the same abbrasiveness but the grit stays constant so if you polish it to dry it can cause marring so you have to know what you are doing and is more suited for rotary buffers. I would use #83 if you are working to get swirls out and #80 for every 6 months. Also if you are going with Meg's Proffesional line (#80 and #83), use #21 Sealant, it's a longer lasting version of their NXT Tech Wax but only comes in gallons. One place I go to that repackages that stuff into smaller bottles for us hobbiest is http://www.autodetailingsolutions.com



If you get into using a rotary buffer, I like Malco products better as #80 and #83 break down too fast and the Malco is a little thicker product so less splatter. A rotary will not only give you a better shine, but do it in half the time but it does take a little more skill than a PC.
 
i was looking at the #80 product line on the Meguiers site and noticed they had a forum... so i asked about their products:



Me

plan on filling paint chips and scratch and wetsanding with 3000grit... need something abrasive enough to take off the sandpaper marks and swirl marks... but yet not hurt the clear coat, and maybe use every 6 months to buff/clean the paint.



I hear #80 is not abrasive enough to take off the sandpaper marks but is ok with swirls...



i hear #2 will take out the sandpaper marks, but is TO harsh on the rest of the paint.



So will #83 work as a middle man?
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an Adminastrators responce

Wow! Where did you hear all of this mis-information? Some other detailing discussion forum? Just goes to show how fast bad information travels and how easy it is for people to repeat information without ever verifying whether or not it's accurate.



Be that as it may... let me help you.



Removing sanding marks, even #3000 grit sanding marks is difficult in most cases because in most cases the paint is really hard, thus it will be very difficult your you and your four fingers to rub an applicator with some chemical long enough and hard enough and with the right action to actually remove the sanding marks and restore a scratch-free surface.



The good news is, it can be done. If you're lucky, your car's paint won't be as hard as glass, this will help you to work out defects by hand or with a dual action polisher.



Forget those other products you mentioned, whoever recommended them to you needs to start reading posts over here instead of where they're hanging out on.



The product you want is ScratchX.



Hopefully you haven't already sanded a hundred spots on your car! If you haven't, then try this, take your #3000 grit sanding paper and sand a small inconspicuous area that has the same paint the areas you want to repair have.



Then, try to remove your sanding marks in this inconspicuous area with ScratchX, apply a quarter size drop on to your foam applicator pad and then apply in a back and forth motion across the direction of the sanding marks with passion, rub for 2-3 minutes. You want to rub till the ScratchX looks oily somewhat like Vaseline would look if you were rubbing it on your finish, but don't rub so long that it's gone.



Now wipe off the residue and inspect. Are your sanding marks still there? If so, repeat the process.



Do this up to three times. If after the third time the sanding marks are gone, then you know you can remove your sanding marks and now you can decide if this is something you want to pursue to each of the areas you want to fix.



If the sanding marks are still present, then this tells you either your paint is very hard or your technique is not adequate or both and be thankful you did this in an inconspicuous area.



Besides removing your sanding marks, typically when you do this kind of finessing, if your touch up paint doesn't dry to a real hard state, then all this rubbing on top of it and on the clear coat around it will tend to remove much of the touch up paint, especially if you start to generate some heat.



Been there done that.



Like I say, it can be done, but it tends to be a lot more work than most people ever imagine.



We get these questions every Saturday at our Detailing 101 class and we try to put the focus back on the big picture, which is making the entire car look great, not a little spot the size of a flea, give or take a flea or two.



Noble pursuit, don't want to discourage, you, but do test your choice of product and your process first in an inconspicuous area before attempting to do the the same process where everyone's attention will be focused.



Best of luck...



Using a foam applicator pad, apply some
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i've never really seen anything on Autopia about ScracthX being used for anything... what do you think of that?



buellwinkle, so your saying i should apply a sealent after the polishing with either the #80 or #83 or one of the other one's, and before the FK1 Wax?



If so, I always read that the Klasse SG was the best for that?
 
Have you ever fealt 3000 grit sandpaper, toilet paper is rougher. ScratchX is a lotion with very mild abrasives and it takes a lot of elbow grease and a lot of ScratchX to even remove minor swirling. At demos done by Meguiars, it took multiple applications to remove swirls, 3 are mentioned in the post above. Considering that it comes in a small tube, if you had the stamina, time and enough tubes you could do a whole car.



#80/#83, which should only be applied by machine is just polish, no wax in it. After that you would be done polishing so you have to protect the paint so call it what you want, wax or sealent, that's the next step. I've used Klasse products for years, one of the best synthetic waxes out there but there products are a pain to put on, take off. I like their AIO product but their SG is terrible for me, it's hard to remove and streaks so I threw mine out after a few attempts. I'm not familiar with FK1 products so can't answer questions about that.
 
ok, that that i've got the sandpaper/buffing products figured out... onto the Klasse products...

from what i have read, if i use the AIO on-top-of the Meg's #80 or #83, it will take off all the oil's the Meg's left behind to "fill-in" the scrathces/swirl marks... and put it's own Sealent on as well.



now, would that be better then just going right to a Sealent? (wether it be SG or any other brand) so that it seals the Oil's from the Meg's in?



thanks again for all your help... i can be a little over precautious most of the time :xyxthumbs lol
 
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