Dawn - is it harmful or not?

MattZ28

MattZ28

New member
I've been hearing mixed reactions toward using Dawn dishwashing liquid to wash the car as a prep before detailing. Some say it's :eek: harmful, while others say it works fine and won't damage the paint (like Sal Zaino, he recommended it to me and others to use before Zaino'ing)



What do YOU guys feel about it?



-Matt
 
The search engine is your friend. Its been covered many times. My personal opinion is that it is unnecessary because an alcohol/water wipedown will accomplish the same thing without going through the hassle of washing the car, being hard on rubber components, and risk of inducing swirls with washing and drying.
 
If you're going to use Zaino, then for the first wash, great. Use Dawn.



For any other situation, Dawn in unnecessarily harsh. You don't need to strip the other products off before doing a complete detail. Wash, clean, polish, protect.



Tom
 
Don't Drink it. :D



Sal started all this because he didn't want to recommend a paint cleaner. He was probably planning on formulating one and never got around to it. If you really want to wax off, it's probably going to need a solvent rub...like they do at body shops?



I've never seen a body shop Dawn washing before a paint.
 
Matt,



Dawn use was a very hot topic not that long ago.



Basically, it's use should be very resistricted and only used when you understand why it's recommended by Sal.



For general washing and cleaning, Dawn shouldn't be used. Sal only recommends it as a last step product prior to the application of Zaino. It's used to removed any oils or grime from the finish to ensure Zaino bonds to the paint as much as possible.



Basically, you'd



Wash with car soap

Clay while still wet

Wash again with car soap

Polish away



When you have the finish where you are happy with it and are ready to Zaino; then



Blue Dawn wash to remove the polishing oils from the finish

Z6

Z1

Z2/Z5 If you use ZFX, ignore the Z1



Some people use Dawn during the initial wash remove oils, sap etc. from the finish.



Basically, it's agreed that using it 1-2 times per year isn't an issue.



It can be used to strip wax but depending on when the wax was applied, it could take 2 or 3 Dawn washes to strip the layer completely.



Personally, I've done the Dawn thing. I won't do it again. I personally don't buy into it and I hate promoting it since it can get people to misunderstand why it's being used.



I can just see my neighbour looking at me putting Dawn into my wash bucket going "Well, if it's good for him, it should be good for me to use". Then they'll strip their finish and not even realize it thereby leading to oxidation, premature clear failure etc.



The higher alkalinity of Dawn and other dish detergents can actually damage a clearcoat. There was a very heated debate a couple of years back but unfortunatley, the thread was lost when Autopia had a server crash. Some very knowledgable members who no longer post felt that even a single dawn wash could damage a clearcoat.



Basically, using a good quality car soap should serve 99.9% of people's needs.



Paco
 
I use the Dawn routine before a "first of the season " detail. Maybe once a year. The rest of the time I find car wash soap to be fine. I'd agree it should not be used each time you wash.



I find the use of a solvent like Prepsol, Acryliclean or Grease and Wax Remover to be much more of a potential problem than using Dawn. :scared



On another note...I find it amazing that some folks are scared of Dawn (which is only on the surface for minutes..then rinsed), yet have no concern about the amount of silicones used in various waxes, and even worse...rubber and vinyl protectants.
 
The facts are that Dawn is not as harsh as some people will lead you to believe. After all you use it on your hands each time you wash dishes!!!! If you bathed your hands in Hydrocarbons daily see how long your skin lasts!!!



Dawn has a higher alkalinity which is good at removing grease and oils. I see no harm using it on a clear coat as a pre-wax step to wipe the slate clean in a bind.
 
My take:



I'm not chemist, but I don't think using dawn once or twice a year will kill your clear. But IMHO, that's not the point. I never understood what this whole dawn obsession was all about. Why use dishwashing soap to clean your automotive paint when you can use a dedicated paint cleaner that was made specifically for automotive finishes?? Paint cleaners will do an infinitely better job of cleaning/stripping your paint down to it's base than dawn ever will. For example, many Z users on this forum use Klasse AIO as their pre Z paint cleaner of choice and they have no problems or complaints.



In the words of Mr. Orosco, "Dawn is for dishes, leave it in the kitchen".



Bill :up
 
BillNorth said:
My take:



I'm not chemist, but I don't think using dawn once or twice a year will kill your clear. But IMHO, that's not the point. I never understood what this whole dawn obsession was all about. Why use dishwashing soap to clean your automotive paint when you can use a dedicated paint cleaner that was made specifically for automotive finishes?? Paint cleaners will do an infinitely better job of cleaning/stripping your paint down to it's base than dawn ever will. For example, many Z users on this forum use Klasse AIO as their pre Z paint cleaner of choice and they have no problems or complaints.



In the words of Mr. Orosco, "Dawn is for dishes, leave it in the kitchen".



Bill :up
Click to expand...



Thing is Bill .. AIO removes everything .. sometimes you just want to remove the topper and leave the Z or SG etc .. so it serves a purpose there.
 
Jess,



I don't really believe that dawn will in fact strip the whole topper off the paint to begin with. IMHO, there will still be trace amounts of topper left which will hinder the bonding of future sealant layers. That's why dedicated paint cleaners are the way to go. Botton line is, once you top you can NOT go back.



JMHO,

Bill :up
 
MattZ28 said:
AHAHAHA



"Z197.8 v2.1 beta"
Click to expand...



I believe you can't use V2.1 before v3.14597... because if you do the ratio of bad apples to good apples will be disproportional even though the oranges make up for it. Or this is what Sal told me. :o
 
BillNorth said:
Jess,



I don't really believe that dawn will in fact strip the whole topper off the paint to begin with. IMHO, there will still be trace amounts of topper left which will hinder the bonding of future sealant layers. That's why dedicated paint cleaners are the way to go. Botton line is, once you top you can NOT go back.



JMHO,

Bill :up
Click to expand...



I don't agree with that. The topper will only last a few weeks anyway by normal degradation from the elements. After that time a normal car wash would probably suffice.
 
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